Black Spirituality Religion : The most mistranslated verse in the bible ... IMO

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by ru2religious, Nov 10, 2008.

  1. ru2religious

    ru2religious Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The most mistranslated verse in the bible ....

    Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    what is the difference between Matthew 24:5 and Matthew 24:23-24

    Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    I had a problem with this scripture about ... 6 months ago. The problem that I was having was the repetitive nature of vs 5 & 23-24. As I keep with the observation of these 2 scriptures I became aware of the fact that these two scriptures are not saying the same thing. I was under the impression that vs. 5 was saying that many will come like Marshall Applewhite, Jim Jones, David Koresh or even Suma Ching Hai who claimed to be Buddha and Jesus reincarnated. I was under the impression that it was talking about wannbe Jesus types but that scriptures doesn't say that at all.

    The difference between Matthew 24:5 and Matthew 24:23-24 is that vs. 23-24 is explaining what I though above about verse 5 and verse 5 is speaking about people proclaiming that Jesus is the Messiah. Many say that Jesus is perfect but Ya`shua stated different in many instances. Here is a classic example:

    Luke 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

    Jesus was letting the people know not to call him good because only his father in heaven is good. Well many believe that they are one ... this is the extreme opposite from the truth of what the Christian bible says.

    John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    A little of trace but it gets to the point... Ya`shua never proclaimed to be God and by saying he and his father are one that is like saying the President and the Vice President are one ... they have to have the same ideology but 2 different 1 is greater then the other.

    Ya`shua wasn't telling the people in vs. 5 that people was coming to act like him, but that people will call him Christ. He address the issue of people trying to be like him in the latter part of this chapter.

    This is up for debate if anyone want to deal with it I will address it but I'm going to leave it here until it is challenged.


    Peace and Blessings
     
  2. Knowledge Seed

    Knowledge Seed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    No challenge from me!
     
  3. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    ru2religious,

    From my view, this issue is not a matter of debate, but rather clarification. I don’t get from Verse 5 what you state Verse 5 is saying, here is what you say Verse 5 is saying:

    “Ya`shua wasn't telling the people in vs. 5 that people was coming to act like him, but that people will call him Christ. He address the issue of people trying to be like him in the latter part of this chapter.”

    Which says to me that Yashua didn’t tell the people that some would come to act like, but rather Yashua was telling them that people would call him Christ.

    If acting like him means deceiving them, as though those acting like him was him, then it has no other meaning, other than to inform the people that there would be false Christ’ merely acting like him, and this through deception.

    As you say, that the Verse merely tells the people to call him Christ, this is a stretch to say the least, that is unfounded. As far as the latter part of the chapter, it has nothing to do with understanding the intent of Verse 5, which stands on its own, and with clear meaning within the (15) words used.

    Here is Verse 5: For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    Again, from my view, the complete thought is this; there will be many to use my name and say that they are me. But you know this is impossible because I am only one. So, how can they say that they are me, don’t be deceived by this.

    Now, you have stated that Verse 5 says that people will call him Christ. Comes now the stretch you have applied, please show, ru2religious, how the fifteen(15) words contained in the Verse, indicates that people will call him Christ, when Christ is saying that those coming will call themselves Christ in order to deceive the people.

    Again, you say this: “and verse 5 is speaking about people proclaiming that Jesus is the Messiah.”

    I cannot find what you state above within those same fifteen (15) words contained in Verse 5. What I understand you to be saying in this quote is the same as the other quote. Example, this quote says to me, the verse talks about people proclaiming that Jesus is the Messiah. That to is the same stretch that I am having a hard time finding in contrast with what you say the scripture is saying, against which what the scripture actually says.

    Where, within the 15 words do you fine people proclaiming that Jesus is Messiah? I only find within the same 15 words that Jesus is telling his disciples to be alert of many that will come claiming to be him, claiming to be Jesus, and when you hear or see this know that it is a deception.

    In conclusion, to take the two sets of scripture ( Verse 5 & Verses 23-24) and say that they are different is an attempt to split hairs. It is very difficult to split something so thin. In my opinion, the two sets of scripture are identical in scope and meaning, and to somehow separate the two has not been accomplished with what you have offered. This is an exercise which interjects a concept into scripture that otherwise is not present, poor eisegesis.

     
  4. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    ru2religious, did you overlook my reply yesterday?

     
  5. ru2religious

    ru2religious Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    sorry ... just saw the reply ... will respond after I get some shut eye ... pulled a late nighter.

    Peace and Blessing
     
  6. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    ru2religious,

    Good! Take your time, the thread just caught my attention!

     
  7. ru2religious

    ru2religious Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I once held the same exact view that you are explaining to me but if you review the scripture in closer detail, you will actually see what he was truly saying.

    First point that we have to recognize when reviewing the scripture is the fact that he knows the people that he is speaking with and they know him. He's not talking to people that can't see him or know him on a personal level, hes talking to his disciples who have known him for a period of 3 years. I mean if I know you personally and have walked with you, spoken to you, and have seen you with my two eyes there is absolutely no way that someone can walk up on me telling me that they are you and deceive me. So then the question must be, why would Ya`shu tell his close friends, his students to take heed?

    It is obvious that this form of deception Ya`shua was warning them about was not what most people believe verse 5 of Matthew 24 was talking about.
    A little background on who the Messiah/Christ is supposed to be according to the Old Testament/Tanakh and who Ya`shua is not. Isaiah 55:3-4 there was an everlasting covenant that was made between the god of the bible and King David that he will be there leader. Jeremiah 30:7-9 states that the God of the bible will raise King David and the people will serve God and King David.

    The 2 set of scriptures Isaiah 55:3-4 & Jeremiah 30:7-9 speak of the everlasting (eternal) covenant god made with King David and how people will serve God and King David (the Messiah). Again, Ezekiel 37:21-25 the god of the bible said that he will gather all of the Israelites that were enslaved, he would gather them from the 4 corners of the earth and e will make King David to rule over them eternally (Forever vs.24). Ya`shua knew the scriptures and he knew that it was King David that was supposed to get things together.

    So then,here is were the problem began:

    Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

    The word 'world' should have been translated as 'age', as in 'Dark ages'. The disciples were asking about the end of Roman ruler ship which tormented the people, made them live in a state of hiding, fighting and bondage. Heres the problem again with people, they automatically assume that the scriptures are talking about our time as though Ya`shu or the disciples were talking directly to us and our present situation. At this point (Matthew 24:3) they didn't know Ya`shua was going to die so what did they mean by saying, "and what shall be the sign of thy coming, ..."?

    They were asking when was he (Ya`shua) going to let people know without being secretive, that he was going to put an end to the current age of madness. Remember, Ya`shua used to always tell people not to say anything or tell who preformed such miracles. Heres the thing, Ya`shua knew he wasn't the Messiah as people were trying to insist which is why the first sentence after the question was:

    "Take heed that no man deceive you", or read in the actual Grecian tongue/language:

    You have to look at the actual Greek words which could have also

    read: "Be aware and God forbid that any man deceive you".

    Now here is where the writers of the KJV got it twisted based on language barriers:

    Mathew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    The words 'Shall Come' in that sentence changes the whole dynamics of what the sentence is actually saying. The words 'Shall Come' could have actually been translated as 'Shall Go', but they chose the other translation for Roman Catholics purpose. Nevertheless, the point will still be made.

    Ya`shua is saying that people will go around using his name.That is what part 1 of the scripture is saying. The words 'Shall Come' is not the correct words and you will find the word 'Go' in the Greek translation using the Strong's Concordance. Thus, the first

    part of that sentence should have read:

    There will be many that will go usnig my name, saying ..."

    Part 2, we have to remember that Ya`shua is supposed to be talking so in that day and time he was personalizing the words "I am Christ", meaning the man standing before you disciples is who they are going to call Christ/Messiah. Disciples don't be seduced by this garbage. Again, the scripture reads in our modern language:

    There will be many that will go using my name, telling people, I'm Christ - man ya better not let them deceive you.

    Now as far as the signs are concerned .... and he goes into that with details. Later in the same chapter is when he discusses the ideal that some will come proclaiming to be the Christ and so forth but verse 5 is not for that purposes.

    Note: When Yashua was talking I suspect that he was referring to Apostle Paul who had disputes with the disciples. It was Paul who did exactly what verse 5 was warning against and that was calling Yashua the Messiah.

    Peace and Blessings.
     
  8. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    ru2religious,

    Certainly, I follow your line of argument, and the gist of that argument seems to be this, that the instructions were meant for that age, so to speak. Well, based upon the far-reaching scope of the living word of God, it is true; however, lets look at Verse 7:

    For Nations shall rise against nations, and kingdom against kingdom : and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthqueakes, in divers places.

    Taking this phrase to task, divers places, speaks volumes today, as this aspect is proven daily through reports in the media. To the clear thinker, the scripture is yet alive.

    Nevertheless, my below and initial post/reply is provided, and I maintain the same point of view as it relates to the scripture, in other words, after careful consideration of your presentation, I am still unconvinced:



    ~~~​



    From my view, this issue is not a matter of debate, but rather clarification. I don’t get from Verse 5 what you state Verse 5 is saying, here is what you say Verse 5 is saying:

    “Ya`shua wasn't telling the people in vs. 5 that people was coming to act like him, but that people will call him Christ. He address the issue of people trying to be like him in the latter part of this chapter.”

    Which says to me that Yashua didn’t tell the people that some would come to act like, but rather Yashua was telling them that people would call him Christ.

    If acting like him means deceiving them, as though those acting like him was him, then it has no other meaning, other than to inform the people that there would be false Christ’ merely acting like him, and this through deception.

    As you say, that the Verse merely tells the people to call him Christ, this is a stretch to say the least, that is unfounded. As far as the latter part of the chapter, it has nothing to do with understanding the intent of Verse 5, which stands on its own, and with clear meaning within the (15) words used.

    Here is Verse 5: For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    Again, from my view, the complete thought is this; there will be many to use my name and say that they are me. But you know this is impossible because I am only one. So, how can they say that they are me, don’t be deceived by this.

    Now, you have stated that Verse 5 says that people will call him Christ. Comes now the stretch you have applied, please show, ru2religious, how the fifteen(15) words contained in the Verse, indicates that people will call him Christ, when Christ is saying that those coming will call themselves Christ in order to deceive the people.

    Again, you say this: “and verse 5 is speaking about people proclaiming that Jesus is the Messiah.”

    I cannot find what you state above within those same fifteen (15) words contained in Verse 5. What I understand you to be saying in this quote is the same as the other quote. Example, this quote says to me, the verse talks about people proclaiming that Jesus is the Messiah. That to is the same stretch that I am having a hard time finding in contrast with what you say the scripture is saying, against which what the scripture actually says.

    Where, within the 15 words do you fine people proclaiming that Jesus is Messiah? I only find within the same 15 words that Jesus is telling his disciples to be alert of many that will come claiming to be him, claiming to be Jesus, and when you hear or see this know that it is a deception.

    In conclusion, to take the two sets of scripture ( Verse 5 & Verses 23-24) and say that they are different is an attempt to split hairs. It is very difficult to split something so thin. In my opinion, the two sets of scripture are identical in scope and meaning, and to somehow separate the two has not been accomplished with what you have offered. This is an exercise which interjects a concept into scripture that otherwise is not present, poor eisegesis
    .


     
  9. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I think that the most mistranslated verse and lying a__ verse is the one that says; "And God said"....cause if God said anything I want to know was it a tenor, a baratone, a bass....well needless to say, God ain't never said jack...and if they did I wonder what language it was in?
     
  10. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Keita,

    I certainly respect your position, and I certainly hope you respect my position, with that, “And God said,” has to do with the creation; question, and mostly out of curiosity, how do you explain the existence of life in the world we experience?

     
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