Black People : The Marginalization of African Americans

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by NNQueen, Jun 6, 2003.

  1. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    "After only a few decades on the books, numerous Affirmative Action laws are being repealed across the U.S. "Why should minorities get favored treatment?" ask many white Americans today, with stories of whites being passed up for promotions or entry-level jobs in favor of less qualified minorities often related. And over one hundred and thirty years after their emancipation, African Americans remain substantially impoverished and ghettoized. The United States, whites assert, is a free country, with free elections, a capitalist market system open to all on an even basis, and equal education and employment opportunities. Many argue that if minorities still lag behind in such areas as education, wealth and political representation today, they have only themselves to blame."

    Do you agree or disagree? Read the entire article and be enlightened by one brother's opinion.

    http://www.lutins.org/afr-amer.html

    Article by allen lutins. See link for rules for reproducing his literary work.
     
  2. ZeroGravity

    ZeroGravity Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Not only do we enter the game of monopoly where most of the properties have already been purchased...we don't even get the startup money that others got.

    Although most of what he say is probably true, we're also at fault as well.
     
  3. happy69

    happy69 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    AGREE WITH HIM TOTALLY- BUT WE CAN DO THIS FOR US WITHOUT GOV'T HELP... AND OWE IT BASICALLY WHAT IT GIVES IT'S ICONOCLASTS---US---NOTHING.
     
  4. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Although America has Whites, Blacks, Latinos, Asians, Arabs, East Indians, and Ethnic Europeans. It has always been about Black & White in this country. Unfortunately after all the blood & sacrifice we gave to the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s & 60s, it seems like whites have gotten the last laugh. We made it illegal to discriminate in this country, we made equal opportunity a reality, not a theory. Since the white power structure could no longer legally discriminate against us, they said okay we won't discriminate against anyone.

    The result: Latinos, Arabs, East Indians, and Asians started coming over by the MILLIONS, and starting taking the jobs that would have (and should have) gone to the African American community. As a historian I can't claim that there were not Latinos (mostly Mexicans) and Asians over here before the Civil Rights Movement, because there were. However, the numbers we have today did not exist until after the Civil Rights Movement. I don't remember Latinos, Asians, or any other ethnic group fighting in the Civil Rights Movement, but they have certainly reaped the benefits, and have become serious competitors for jobs.

    Before I sound too anti-immigrant let me clarify that I don't have problems with them (they are just trying to improve the quality of life for themselves and their family). What I do have a problem with is the way the African American inspired & led Civil Rights Movement was undercut. I seriously believe this was not an accident, but a design by a bitter white power structure that was forced to change its lifestyle and status quo.

    Actually there is a historical precident for this. In South Africa and parts of the Caribbean (Trinidad & Jamaica). East Indians were brought into the countries to work middle class jobs while whites work the elite jobs and blacks worked the low end jobs. The imported Indians served as a distraction to blacks (as a "buffer class"), because they were taking jobs which should have gone to them. More specifically, because of the the racist social structure, there were jobs that blacks knew they couldn't obtain. However the jobs given to the imported Indians where the best jobs that were once available to black. As a result the anger blacks had towards whites, they instead turned to the Indians (since they were now their immediate threat). Which in turn allowed whites to run the country unchallenged. The plan ran into some problems when Indians also protested against mistreatment (the famous Ghandi 1st arose when he staged non-violent protest against the S. African government). However for the most part if was very effective.

    Was and is effective, because I see it happening right now. Again this was not a coincidence, but a deliberate plan. And I think the same thing is happening in America. I especially think that Latinos are being used as a buffer class against African Americans. We have to be aware of what's going on
     
  5. happy69

    happy69 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    PanAfrica:

    You are right on target; but I don't think that we don't know what is going on; I think that we are too afraid to challenge it-constructively.

    Civil Rights wasn't/isn't the only thing that we gave to White women and all those who did/ does immigrate here...
    We continue to fight... the fight for "more minorities" on t.v. was and is led by Black Americans... and it works....
    Although, it is just a mask--Affirmative Action-- fight was led, and is led, and is fought for mainly by Black Americans, yet, each and every group- including the majority "White Women,"- sit back as we fight, as we are villified, as we are marginalised, and wait to continue reaping the benefits...

    I do not blame them per se; as a matter of fact, I think that it is quite smart of them; while we worry about- still- being with Whites, and waiting for Whites to love us; others huddle, support each other... pull each other up. (i.e. Asians, come into our neighborhoods, open up stores-- we are the biggest patrons in this whole **** country-- give it 800 billion Black Bucks A Year-- then they supply low interest or no interest loans to each other to buy up the businesses, in our communities... maybe they will hire you for $5.00/hr-- it ain't likely)

    While whenever we can rub two nickels together we run away from each other, while others huddle.... make their own neighborhoods... then communities, etc... and while like some of us; some of them too, run out to live in Whiteville.... go out to Whiteville, drive around... even in Whiteville's with a fairly nice sized presence of "Others"; Black Americans, Hispanics, Asians, Africans, Carribeans, etc.... now, look around at the businesses owned there...who are they? All Whites... they are not having it; and not once did they fight about it; no, the "public" never hears a peep--- but they fight and they fight very constructively- THEY DO NOT AND WILL NOT PATRONIZE THE BUSINESSES OF OTHERS IN "THEIR" NEIGHBORHOODS.... soon, the " other" closes down, ... if they ever had the guts to try it anyway--- and guess where they take their business-- not Their Families-- just their business?

    Hmnnn Hmnnn--- and guess who lives in the projects, walking in and outta that store day in and out, with flip-flops on, hanging in front of the stores w/ 40's while the owners don't give a ****, while the schools deteriorate... and always crying, "They took something from me?"; while they sit in Whiteville, searching out love and acceptance, and getting it in the easiest, most vile way possible..."Love me Mr./Mrs. White, I hate'em too..."

    And if Whiteville's distaste for that which is not them, cannot be overridden by the hate they willing spit at US--- we get mad at the Whiteville residents, we hollering-- "You Racist, You Bigot!"
    We are ready to pick up signs, march... for them!

    No one can do anything to you that you do not allow them to... why can't we exercise some restraint? Why can't we say, my leverage is inside of me. for me and my people first...

    No PanAfrica; it is not that we don't know... it is that we are afraid to fight and love each other--- Constructively of course.
     
  6. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    What a passionate message. I'm feeling you happy...keep telling us like it really is!!

    If anyone can dispute the truth in this message, let them speak up. Where does this fear in us come from? Are we afraid to love each other constructively? Why? Why can't we spend our money in our neighborhoods at our stores? What is it that we don't get? Or do we?

    Do you feel left out, disenfranchised and alienated? True many of us are doing things for ourselves and in our communities but I get this sense that there is a mass appeal among us that more be done to help us as a race. Given the years of toil, blood shed, sweat and tears to rid ourselves of this oppressive yoke called RACISM do you think we should be somewhere higher on the economic and political chain in American society than where we are? Constantly we compare ourselves to people who migrate here from other countries.

    I do not believe that jobs were taken away from Blacks and given to other people of color, although I understand what is meant by this. To think like that suggests to me that I should be grateful to some "master" for throwing me a bone every now and then. Bump that. At the risk of sounding crude, why can't we become the bone throwers? Why haven't we? Why can't we own the seed and the harvest? What did immigrants take? Jobs barely paying minimum wage? Jobs a man couldn't support a dog on much less himself and a family? Shining shoes, waiting tables, cleaning their houses and having their children call us mammy?

    The land of the FREE...rhetoric. Thirty-plus years we stand here after affirmative action which was supposed to open doors and create more employment opportunities for "minorities" (primarily Black people). Opportunities to be educated at "other" institutions, taught by whites, about THEIR history. One by one, Blacks have entered the job market being able to hold their heads up for a change, got a college degree from a predominantly institution and "brainwashed"...and many think they did it all on their own. Some of us vehemently argue that affirmative action helped them at all.

    As a race, we're still struggling and fighting the same white regime that we always have.

    I agree with happy..."No one can do anything to you that you do not allow them to... why can't we exercise some restraint? Why can't we say, my leverage is inside of me. for me and my people first..."

    :heart:
     
  7. happy69

    happy69 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hey Queen,
    as usual I agree with you on most everything and that is cool; but it is also cool to disagree- especially when we are looking for the same results.
    I think that Blacks have lost jobs to others. I mean we have to understand that in many cases, the bottom line is that profits are the key--- and if they could pay someone a fraction of what they are paying you and/or not have to insure you then of course they will not hire you-- they are going to hire the "other"--- it is also true that some people will hire anybody but a Black... and since Gov't and the Bush Regime is outlawing the "almost-fairness" safeguards, it is up to us to fight that kind of thing. How?

    Do not do any kind of business with a business that do not hire Blacks. Do not do businesses that do business with such places!
    And I understand that that is not the easiest things to do; unless of course you are willing to do your research.... but I do try.

    I don't patronize Black businesses that don't hire Blacks; or go into places where I felt that the Black business was discriminating against other Blacks--- I just don't period.
     
  8. Lameezy

    Lameezy New Member MEMBER

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    My two cents

    Happy you were right on target when you said

    "I do not blame them per se; as a matter of fact, I think that it is quite smart of them; while we worry about- still- being with Whites, and waiting for Whites to love us; others huddle, support each other... pull each other up. (i.e. Asians, come into our neighborhoods, open up stores-- we are the biggest patrons in this whole **** country-- give it 800 billion Black Bucks A Year-- then they supply low interest or no interest loans to each other to buy up the businesses, in our communities... maybe they will hire you for $5.00/hr-- it ain't likely)"

    That's part of it but it's not that cut and dry. There are a few reasons why we as black people are marginalized still in this country. However one of the biggest problems is that we as a people lack solidarity and the fact that we as a people suffer from a lack of continunity in leadership. For example the S.C.L.C , N.A.A.C.P. along with Dr. Martin Luther King ( Who buy the way is one of the greatest people on the planet) was able to guide us through the civil rights movement and achieve for the most part equal rights for Black people in America. However you could argue that we are in a different era in our relationship with America. Who is leading us into that new step. We are still fighting very old battles with old weapons. THE CIVIL RIGHTS STRUGGLE IS OVER FOR THE MOST PART! We now fight battle with our minds and money instead of a picket sgin and a speech. We struggle now to thrive just like everyone else.

    Now why aren't we thriving there are three really good reasons that I would like to point out. The first being that all over the nation black business owners are struggling, why because

    1) They structure their businesses in ways the do not breed success.

    2) They have problems catering to their target audiences

    3) They depend to much on the government to bail them out

    4) They cannot compete with the buying power of national chain stores (ie. Wal Mart, Target, etc.)

    It is important to realize that none of these reasons listed above have anything to do with the unwillingness of Black people to buy from Black businesses because that's not true. In fact many Black people don't buy from black businesses because they find that in many cases black businesses don't have the best values. What we must realize is that black people cannot obligate people to but from them.

    The second reason why we are not thriving in America is the lack of emphasis placed on education. I'm sorry I have to disagree with Allen when he stated in his article that the devaluing of education happened when the first generation blacks came to America in chains and were stripped of their culture.

    The lack of value the many black people have towards education did not really happen until crack and violence took over black urban neighborhoods all over America. This hurts us in two main ways. One being that the marketable skills set for our young work force is dropping and secondly for those who have the mind to start their own businesses, they lack proper training and skills to plan and run them successfully.

    My third reason for us not thriving in this country is that why lack solidarity and an understanding of how this country work. Sure lobbyist groups and big companies have money however that can be offset by people rallying and being unified. It's not enough for us as a people to set a blame people for our problems and then sit and do nothing about them. The skill of grassroots organizing has left us as of right now along with the fact that what have no real organizing going on a mass scale. I mean can anyone tell me the national agenda of Black folks in the country?
     
  9. happy69

    happy69 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hi Lameezy:
    Yes, you are correct in your assessment-- the core of your argument has been argued by me and others forever... as for education, you are so right... but us, just naming the problems, is the same as us sitting back and waiting for things to happen.

    Before we Intergrated our paths to "overcoming" were progressing; and we still are; but not at the rate that we once were. I do not think that we should not integrate... I don't think that the trend could or should be reversed... but we should segregate our thinking and behaviors.

    Before I go on, I just want to point out that you were right on target too when you said that [some] Blacks don't buy from other Blacks because they don't supply the best values... yes! and I have talked to Black business owners asking the very question and stating that we have to wash each other's hands... if my brother is selling a drink fro 89cents and the asian down the block is selling it for 39 cents of course I would go for the 39 cents... I find the same trend in restaurants, etc... but, too, again, while I talk to them.... I have to patronize them still as much as possible. It took a long time before I bought the clothing of Karl Kani, even FUBU--- because of price, but one day I told myself, if I can buy Ralph Loren and others (not Tommy Hilfiger--- this is just another example of how we pay to be insulted and humiliated); then surely I could buy from them.... and so the story goes...
    Yes, Blacks have to give value, and we Have to buy.... I hope that the black designing continue to grow.... we could become bigger players in this arena because we have always been the the trendsetters... we should profit too... just as some of the younger music entertainers have enough sense to get a studio first, when they make money, and own their own creations.... do you understand how revolutionary that is? And I feel that is why they see "Hip Hop" (whatever that is) as such a threat...

    Again, I cannot argue with your assessments.... but there are many black entrepreneurs and business owners etc,... who are reaching out to our community to show us the way, Earl Graves' Black Business Initiative is just one, and I have lists of others.... a great website is BlackLeaders.com ... where you can communitcate with others who are opening their own businesses... I am trying my hand at several.... and the bus. plan isn't easy, but quite interesting... just takes some research....
    and another thing... we have to learn to plan for hard times, and began investing more ... but we can do this... we do it for everyone else!

    La- we are more "solid" than we think; the vast majority of us want the same thing.... we want to revamp education.... many of us are starting charter schools.... you want a leader, check out Sharon Ames-Dennard.... a professor, business woman, and school owner/teacher.... she has a top-ranked school in FL. (I think that she is in the Top 10 in the country)....

    We are not naive to how this country works.... never.... we are the originals on this.... we know but we do not circumvent it like we should... those of us who do.... find more success... we talk too much, "never let your left hand know what your right is doing...".... the plan was already written, we neglected to commit it to memory... but we are gradually going back into study...

    We have to come together to decide what our agenda is to be; and who we want to speak on it.... Right now, people like Jesse, NAACP, etc... are doing exactly what you said.... fighting with ineffective tools.... we have to be more constructive.... we have the capacity to change agendas if we want.... picket signs, and hollering our way into heart disease and hypertention is a waste.... it starts with us, and we have to give it to our children...

    What is the national agenda of other groups?

    Okay, I need to start an Agenda thread....
     
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