Black Spirituality Religion : "The Logic Of Faith"

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by cherryblossom, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    The logic of faith
    Josh Hefner, Guest Writer
    02/05/2002

    Some people believe in God, some people believe there is no God. Those who believe in God, openly say "I believe in God." Yet those who believe there is no God want to say the very act of believing in something that is not proved is stupid and erroneous. When, actually, they undeniably believe in something that is not proved - the non-existence of a supernatural being. They are, in essence, having faith in that way of thinking. But they still want to say faith is illogical, and that faith should be hated. It is an anti-religion religion.

    Take, for example, molecules. Many grade-school children are able to tell me that a water molecule consists of H2O. Most of these children have not actually seen a molecule broken apart. So, having never seen it, can they truly say it exists and confidently assert what it is made of? I personally cannot. I am forced to admit that I have put my faith in the textbook, and I believe what it tells me about the composition of a water molecule. That, dear reader, is faith in its simplest form. The evidence of things not seen.

    The human is a spiritual being. We have a void within ourselves that must be filled with a belief in something. Everyone has faith. Even a person who believes he has no faith does have faith that there is no faith. Faith is a belief in the unknown. Faith is a belief in tomorrow. Faith is a belief in your next breath.

    Atheists believe there is no God. That is faith, because there is no proof that there is no God.

    I believe there is much proof for the existence of God. Who else could have created hearing? Evolution, according to its teaching, should not be able to accomplish this. If evolution is the adaptation to surroundings, how could this ability have ever been formed? If an organism doesn't know that sound exists, how could the sensory equipment be formed to receive the waves of something that is unknown?

    The answer is God. He could, and did, give us the ability to hear, see, taste, feel and smell things. Senses such as sight, taste, and hearing would be impossible to "evolve" into what they are today. Adapting to an otherwise unknown sense is (dare I say?) logically impossible. Only a supernatural being could give us these abilities we now so often take for granted.

    Above I mentioned molecules, and their composition of atoms. What holds these atoms together has yet to be explained without controversy. It is still unknown how the building block of life - the atom - holds together with other atoms to form the molecule. Yet it does.

    To say one believes in nothing is to say that person believes in believing in nothing, and therefore believes in something. Faith is not only logical, it is essential to our way of life. God not only exists, but his creation also affirms it.

    Logic is the system of reasoning. If a system of reasoning has faith in nothing, it cannot truly be reasonable because faith invades every facet of mankind’s existence.




    THE COLLEGIAN ONLINE: an independent newspaper of the University Of Tulsa
    http://www.utulsa.edu/collegian/article.asp?article=1046
     
  2. hellogood

    hellogood Banned MEMBER

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    g'evening

    The title of this article is an oxymoron of sorts IMO. When someone says they believe in God, who's God are we referring to? IMO the concepts of Life, Death, and God all need to be re-examined.

    Yes we all have souls, but the "void" must be filled with "belief in something".
    I was wondering instead of just "belief in something", how about filling the void with "truth in knowledge"?

    Of course faith MUST deny logic, how else would it sustain itself?

    Reasoning is NOT about faith, reasoning is about gaining knowledge and understanding. Faith on the other hand doesn't need logic. To say a void must be filled with "belief in something", is to say fill that void with ANYTHING, anything but the truth. The basis IMO should be based on truth not belief. A belief is something we THINK is true.

    When one has knowledge of self, you don't need to "believe in something".

    I recently spoke to someone and said i don't follow religion, and i was asked "so you don't believe in God". So if there's no religon there's no God.
    Doesn't make much sense.

    Give praise...............................to logic
    and logic tells me i need to pray now and give thanks.

    g'evening Josh
     
  3. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    Exploring The Logic Of Faith: A Dialogue On The Relation Of Modern Philosophy To Christian Faith
    by Kent Bendall, Frederick Ferre'

    Chapter One: Faith And Philosophical Inquiry

    ..."I shall first try to explain how my concerns lead me to the specific question I want to pose. I shall do this by a series of dichotomies.

    Confronted with the claims of Christianity, some people tend to ask, "Is there any reason why I should accept these claims and their conse-
    quences for my life?"
    But there are others, not necessarily even
    nominally Christian, whose first tendency is to ask instead,
    "Is there any reason why I should not?"

    I find myself leaning in the latter direction. Persons of this sort we might call
    "naturally religious," and more specifically, "Christian sym-
    pathizers." There are many ways such persons can be led to
    accept or reject Christian claims, depending on other factors
    in their make-up. For some this decision will be governed
    primarily--at least by intention--by "rational" or "critical"
    considerations. Now of these "critically minded Christian
    sympathizers," as we may call them, those who decide against
    the acceptance of these claims may do so for different sorts of
    reasons. Having inquired to the best of their ability into the
    reasons for and against the truth of the doctrines fundamental
    to the specific Christian option they are considering, some
    will find or think they find the balance of evidence falling
    against those doctrines and will hence reject them and the
    faith based on them. Others will find a lack of substantive
    evidence for or against, except that they will find in this very
    lack a decisive consideration against a positive acceptance of
    the doctrines. If these persons understand positive acceptance
    of these doctrines to be implied in Christian faith, they will
    have found a sufficient reason to withhold or try to withhold
    such faith within themselves.

    Since I find the outcome of my own reflections tending in the latter direction, it is the logic and tacit premisses of this specific obstacle to the confession
    of Christian faith which concern me. This obstacle hinges not
    only, or even mainly, on substantive theological argumenta-
    tion, but on the general question of the compatibility of
    Christian faith and the commitment to try to shape one's be-
    liefs by critical inquiry. It must be stressed, however, that this
    question is only a focal point, and even as such becomes cru-
    cial only under the assumption that critical inquiry leaves
    open the question of the truth or falsity of the fundamental
    Christian doctrines; there is no way of assessing the reason-
    ableness of Christian faith without specific inquiries concern-
    ing any propositional beliefs it may involve.


    http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=10496215
     
  4. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    Thanks, Brother Raptor! :toast:
     
  5. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I shall go and delete my thread, since you've already posted on it.

    I shall also extend my thanks to you, for I have never heard of the phrase.

    I'll ponder this concept and perhaps render a comment on it.
     
  6. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    hellogood pretty much hit the nail on the head.

    I find the phrase "logic of faith" to be an oxymoron as well.

    For faith is believing in something without rendering proof.

    For instance, where is the logic of my faith in the existence
    of a spaghetti noodle monster, when I don't have to give you a reason
    why I believe in its existence and you can't prove me wrong? Because, 'you
    weren't there when I saw it and it only comes out when I am alone and nobody
    is watching'. This renders any investigative process null and void. Which is why
    one can not rationally argue faith, where religion is concerned.

    A book called the bible exist. This is based on fact, not faith.
    The words in it exist. They to, are based on fact and not faith.
    Therefore, investigative principles can be applied to it.

    Regarding "faith", as A007 asserted in another thread, "faith" is not
    proprietary. No religion invented the concept. The concept existed
    long before there were any said religion and before it had a name.

    We have also demonstrated this concept before we knew it had a name.
    As 3 or 4 y/o kids, have you ever said to a friend, "see you later"? Oh course
    we have. So then how do we know we are gonna see the friend later? The
    fact of the matter is that we don't know. The conclusion is drawn based on
    past experience and conditions that gives one the....validity...to state
    that one will see another later on in time. That is where the logic comes into
    play.
     
  7. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    And as a Christian, believing in the Trinity and the Bible as God's Word, my past experiences and from those "conditions" set by the Bible also give "validity" to my Faith.

    ...e.g. "the logic of faith."
     
  8. delsydebothom

    delsydebothom Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Faith is a power infused by God into the soul, allowing the human person to assent in his or her spirit to everything God has revealed. Having the kind of faith "without which it is impossible to please God" isn't something people are naturally capable of; the ability must be bestowed upon them by God.

    Logic is not opposed to faith, especially not the Christian faith. The Christian faith is, in a sense, the only faith that explicitly worships "logic": the Logos of God, translated as "the Word" in John 1:1. Logos is a Greek word which, while encompassing the meaning of the English word "Word", means far more; Logos refers to the transcendent principle of rationality in the universe, and was a concept developed by Plato and Aristotle, and fleshed out by the Stoics. In applying the word to Jesus, St. John expressed his faith that the God discovered by philosophy was the same as the God who revealed himself to the Israelites, and who "became flesh" and "dwelt among us". Thus the God of philosophy could also be the God who is worshiped--a conclusion the Greeks themselves had stopped short of.
     
  9. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    When we use terms like "I" and or "my" with regard to faith, those terms isntantly
    insulates ones claims from an external investigative process.
     
  10. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    Yet, interestingly, it has been done.

    Which is what I previously posted: an external investigative process....




    Exploring The Logic Of Faith: A Dialogue On The Relation Of Modern Philosophy To Christian Faith
    by Kent Bendall, Frederick Ferre'
     
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