Black Money Business Jobs : The Job Hunt

[Kadijah]

Phlgirl2000 said: ª
I received a full scholarship to go to college where I double majored in the social sciences and natural sciences.

What "social science?" What "natural science?"

I graduated with a 3.9 while working throughout my college experience at various cooperations in the sciences as a research assistant. I have even published a few research papers.

This, plus your majors are vague in the extreme. While you don't need to name the "cooperations(?)" you worked for, surely the disciplines for which you earned a degree are not "private." On paper, degrees, work experience and being published are impressive. When you enter the face-to-face interview, however, you would be asked what degrees, specifically, do you hold? What type of companies were the cooperations(?) you worked for and in what field? What did you do as a research assistant; was that your job title? The research papers you published, where were they published, i.e., were they published in scientific journals - which ones? - or in-company publications such as a newsletter? Your 3.9 average - was it out of a 4.0 grading system, or a 5.0 system? In other words, did you graduate with an "A" (4.0) or a "B" (5.0)average? In short, are you a real dynamo, or are you a paper tiger?

99% of applicants "pad" their resumes. It's expected. But during a face-to-face, by just how much you padded your resume is going to be explored, but if the "padding" is too extensive, e.g., yes, you graduated with a 3.9 average, but it was from Ding Dong School, you'll be rejected.

I am not being harsh. I'm talking real talk. What you have written so far, that you say you walk into an interview with, tells us absolutely "nothing."

Except the 3.9 average. Whether it translates to an A or B, it's impressive. It, as well, tells us that coupled with the full scholarship, you are a bright, competitive person who works hard. At what or where or how, or even who appreciates your output enough to publish it in their "professional" journal is the mystery.

After college, I ended up taking a job with inner city youth because it was a year and a half post graduation and I was still unemployed.

This is a total disconnect from how you frame your college and work experience. You're a great student, you're on the ball, at the top of your class and you have work experience in your field of study with several companies in your field of study (this is the way you've framed it). Not only that, but you were so highly thought of in your field (you were a STAR) that some group or organization thought the research papers that you wrote, important enough to publish under their letterhead. I am NOT being sarcastic. Again, this is the way you framed it. They are your "unspoken" words, calculated to evoke these assumptions in the reader/interviewer. And they are masterful... if you can back them up. Or as one employer said: "If you're going to be a diva, you dayum well better be a star!" If you're going to turn in a resume with the above claims, you better be able to back up (almost) every word!

Unfortunately, the quoted content says you can't. Anyone as highly thought of and honored by having a journal in their field of expertise publish their research.... and has worked for MORE than one company in that field.... would most likely have been offered a job at one of those several companies who benefitted from her research, expertise, and the prestige she brings by being published. If I were an interviewer and saw you had never worked post-graduation in your chosen field with those sterling credentials, as well as not being picked up by one of the companies you worked for while a student, red flags would go up.

HOWEVER.... black me would mos def want to see and personally evaluate, black you! We do not live in a post-racial world. The last statistics I saw said that 92% of black men and 96% of black women with college degrees work in the public sector, i.e., government jobs (city, state, county, federal). Only 8% and 4%, respectively, work in private industry. I would want to talk to you to see if you were being discriminated against precisely because you're a dynamo - a black dynamo. Or if there's some other reason....

It was great experience but not in the field that I wanted.

I'd also be looking for references from your employment with inner-city youth. References that say you "play well" with others.... There's a reason the most popular kids in high school don't usually end up unemployed - unless they're jocks who can't deal with the world not mimicking their h.s. BMOC adulation and pampering them, letting them slide, etc.

I went to graduate school where I got a masters in public health. After leaving school with a 3.9 again I am still unemployed.

Admirable, but the graduate degree only proves that you're smart.

After receiving my sixth rejection today, I really feel like it is because of the color of my skin. I pass the phone screen and everything is so positive but once I show up for the job interview, it's a different tune. I have interviewers that won't even look me in they eye or don't take notes on anything that I am saying. I receive these odd questions pertaining to my abilities to do simple calculations or about doubts that I would fit into the "company culture". I get all these questions about my lack of qualifications but I always check the linkedin account of the person who held the same position prior and most have literally had no experience.

Ah! The Black Experience.... Not fitting into the "company culture" means FOR DEFINITE that they don't hire black people. The rest are just "indications." I would really like to know how you handle the averted eyes, the "simple calculations" insults to your intelligence?

My advice would be that when you walk into a company's door and see all white faces staring back at you, gird yourself to not just appear informed and intelligent in the interview process, but go all out to make the interviewer comfortable! Not fair, but life ain't fair. You're trying to get a job in private industry where 96% of black women with college degrees are not welcome. It's up to you to leap that hurdle. It's up to you to make yourself 'inviting and pleasant,' a wonderful person to be around. Again, not fair, but (again!) this ain't no post-racial world where a man is judged by the content of his character, not the color of his skin color.... or a woman. You want to work for and with whites, you have to make white people like you. Being educationally/experientially qualified, i.e, can do the job, is not enough - which is why they came up with Civil Service tests for government jobs. Otherwise, ALL of us would be working for fast food joints!

It's been a while since I applied for a job, but when I did, I would go all out to make that interviewer like me - not just to get a job I was qualified for, but to get a higher entry salary! And I don't mean kiss a**. I mean to treat them as much as they're your friend, as they are a professional. Smile at them (NO 'skinnin' 'n grinnin'!); look... no, BE interested in every little stupid thing they say:

(snobbily): "WE wear our sweater sleeves pushed UP our arms!
You (enthusiastically): "Euuu! That is so cool!" And if you're wearing a sweater, immediately push the sleeves up to your elbows.... even if it's not your style or the current fashion. In fact, when you walk in the door and see her sleeves pushed up, don't wait for her to say a thing; as you sit down, push your sleeves up. The goal is to make her/him like you. People like people like themselves.... as well as people who like them (which is why the popular kids in h.s. tend to keep employment - they know how to make others like them if by nothing more than "pretending" to like those others).

This advice thingey is getting to be more than I bargained for ...lol. Maybe I'll get to the rest of your post later. But I will give you a "trick" that anyone can use, anywhere, any time, any place and with anybody! It's a "treasured" tip, guaranteed to make people like you (and all the rest of you reading, I KNOW you're going to try it too. Dammit!)

At any rate, here's the trick, perfect for an interview:

I said to make the interviewer like you (even people who don't like you will stop hating on you so much if you do this one simple trick ...lol). The trick? Mimick PHYSICALLY everything they do. You're talking to the person. They "spread" their hands. You spread your hands. They steeple their fingers. You steeple your fingers. They smile. You smile. They tilt their head to the right. Tilt your head to the right.....

It takes courage to do this. You'll feel real stupid at first and just KNOW they're gong to tell you to STOP IT! I've done it a couple of times and I assure you, the person you are talking to will not even notice. They will simply feel "drawn" to you.... and will have no idea why! I even did it once with a woman who I'd just met, but could tell didn't like me. At all! I could SEE the internal struggle as she attempted to back away from the attraction (friendly!) she was feeling toward me as I mimicked everything she did. **** near laughed!

Oh, this technique is best done when the other person is talking. Kinda hard to watch so closely when you're the one doing the talking.

For your next interview - and this goes for male or female, romantic or platonic, any encounter in which you want the person to like you (everyone who uses this technique and is wowed by its absolute accuracy, send me $1!).

One last thing. You can't be OBVIOUS about it. You have to be very natural. They fold their hands, very casually fold yours, etc.... The operative word is "casual."

 

[Kadijah]

P.S.
Btw, I found this article from The Week news magazine's archives that shocked me when I first read it, the author is in so 100% COMPLETE agreement with me!

How to close a sale

To maximize your chances of coming out on top in a negotiation, subtly MIMIC your opponent's mannerisms. New research suggests that this tactic is among the MOST POWERFUL forms of persuasion in the salesman's toolbox, says "New Scientist."

The article goes on to say there was a study in France where 166 students took part in a role play experiment involving buying and selling. Result? 67 percent of sellers who mimicked the person they were targeting achieved a sale, as opposed to just 12.5 percent of those who did not mimic the person.

They repeated the experiment at Stanford University. This time they used computer-generated "sellers" instead of humans. Some of these virtual-reality "salespeople" were programmed simply to move in a human-like way; the rest to mimic their adversaries' head movements, with a four-second delay. Again, the mimics had a far higher hit rate than the non-mimics.

And, they also offered MY caveat:

But be warned: If your mimicry is detected, it can backfire, so be subtle.

I'll deal with the rest of your post tomorrow.... if you care to hang around, seeing as how you deleted your post (I copied the text from Butterfly's post). Still, it might help someone else, so manana!

 

[Destee]

What "social science?" What "natural science?"

This, plus your majors are vague in the extreme. While you don't need to name the "cooperations(?)" you worked for, surely the disciplines for which you earned a degree are not "private." On paper, degrees, work experience and being published are impressive. When you enter the face-to-face interview, however, you would be asked what degrees, specifically, do you hold? What type of companies were the cooperations(?) you worked for and in what field? What did you do as a research assistant; was that your job title? The research papers you published, where were they published, i.e., were they published in scientific journals - which ones? - or in-company publications such as a newsletter? Your 3.9 average - was it out of a 4.0 grading system, or a 5.0 system? In other words, did you graduate with an "A" (4.0) or a "B" (5.0)average? In short, are you a real dynamo, or are you a paper tiger?

99% of applicants "pad" their resumes. It's expected. But during a face-to-face, by just how much you padded your resume is going to be explored, but if the "padding" is too extensive, e.g., yes, you graduated with a 3.9 average, but it was from Ding Dong School, you'll be rejected.

I am not being harsh. I'm talking real talk. What you have written so far, that you say you walk into an interview with, tells us absolutely "nothing."

Except the 3.9 average. Whether it translates to an A or B, it's impressive. It, as well, tells us that coupled with the full scholarship, you are a bright, competitive person who works hard. At what or where or how, even who appreciates your output enough to publish it in their "professional" journal is the mystery?

This is a total disconnect from how you frame your college and work experience. You're a great student, you're on the ball, at the top of your class and you have work experience in your field of study with several companies in your field of study (this is the way you've framed it). Not only that, but you were so highly thought of in your field (you were a STAR) that some group or organization thought the research papers that you wrote, important enough to publish under their letterhead. I am NOT being sarcastic. Again, this is the way you framed it. They are your "unspoken" words, calculated to evoke these assumptions in the reader/interviewer. And they are masterful... if you can back them up. Or as one employer said: "If you're going to be a diva, you dayum well better be a star!" If you're going to turn in a resume with the above claims, you better be able to back up (almost) every word!

Unfortunately, the quoted content says you can't. Anyone as highly thought of and honored by having a journal in their field of expertise publish their research.... and has worked for MORE than one company in that field.... would most likely be offered a job at one of those several companies who benefitted from her (college) research, expertise, and the prestige she brings by being published. If I were an interviewer and saw you had never worked post-graduation in your chosen field with those sterling credentials, as well as not being picked up by one of the companies you worked while a student for, red flags would go up.

HOWEVER.... black me would mos def want to see and personally evaluate, black you! We do not live in a post-racial world. The last statistics I saw showed that 92% of black men and 96% of black women with college degrees work in the public sector, i.e., government jobs (city, state, county, federal). Only 8% and 4%, respectively, work in private industry. I would want to talk to you to see if you were being discriminated against precisely because you're a dynamo - a black dynamo. Or if there's some other reason....

I'd also be looking for references from your employment with inner-city youth. References that say you "play well" with others.... There's a reason the most popular kids in high school don't usually end up unemployed - unless they're jocks who can't deal with the world not mimicking their h.s. BMOC adulation and pampering them, letting them slide, etc.

Admirable, but the graduate degree only proves that you're smart.

Ah! The Black Experience.... Not fitting into the "company culture" means FOR DEFINITE that they don't hire black people. The rest are just "indications." I would really like to know how you handle the averted eyes, the simple calculations "insults" to your intelligence?

My advice would be that when you walk into a company's door and see all white faces staring back at you, gird yourself to not just appear informed and intelligent in the interview process, but go all out to make the interviewer comfortable! Not fair, but life ain't fair. You're trying to get a job in private industry where 96% of black women with college degrees are not welcome. It's up to you to leap that hurdle. It's up to you to make yourself 'inviting and pleasant,' a wonderful person to be around. Again, not fair, but (again!) this ain't no post-racial world where a man (or woman!) is judged by the content of his character, not the color of his skin color. You want to work for and with whites, you have to make white people like you. Being educationally/experientially qualified, i.e, can do the job, is not enough - which is why they came up with Civil Service tests, etc., for government jobs. Otherwise, ALL of us would be working for fast food joints!

It's been a while since I applied for a job, but when I did, I would go all out to make that interviewer like me - not just to get a job I was qualified for, but to get a higher entry salary! And I don't mean kiss a**. I mean to treat them as much as they're your friend, as they are a professional. Smile at them (NO 'skinnin' 'n grinnin'!), look... no, BE interested in every little stupid thing they say:

(snobbily): "WE wear our sweater sleeves pushed UP our arms!
You (enthusiastically): "Euuu! That is so cool!" And if you're wearing a sweater, immediately push the sleeves up to your elbows.... even if it's not your style or the current fashion. In fact, when you walk in the door and see her sleeves pushed up, don't wait for her to say a thing; as you sit down, push your sleeves up. The goal is to make her/him like you. People like people like themselves.... as well as people who like them (which is why the popular kids in h.s. tend to keep employment - they know how to make others like them if by nothing more than "pretending" to like those others).

This advice thingey is getting to be more than I bargained for ...lol. Maybe I'll get to the rest of your post later. But I will give you a "trick" that anyone can use, anywhere, any time, any place and with anybody! It's a "treasured" tip, guaranteed to make people like you (and all the rest of you reading, I KNOW you're going to try it too. Dammit!)

At any rate, here's the trick, perfect for an interview:

I said to make the interviewer like you (even people who don't like you will stop hating on you so much if you do this one simple trick ...lol). The trick? Mimick PHYSICALLY everything they do. You're talking to the person. They "spread" their hands. You spread your hands. They steeple their fingers. You steeple your fingers. They smile. You smile. They tilt their head to the right. You tilt your head to the right.....

It takes courage to do this. You'll feel real stupid at first and just KNOW they're gong to tell you to STOP IT! I've done it a couple of times and I assure you, the person you are talking to will not even notice. They will simply feel "drawn" to you.... and will have no idea why! I even did it once with a woman who I'd just met, but could tell didn't like me. At all! I could SEE the internal struggle as she attempted to back away from the attraction (friendly!) she was feeling toward me as I mimicked everything she did. **** near laughed!

Oh, this technique is best done when the other person is talking. Kinda hard to watch so closely when you're the one doing the talking.

For your next interview - and this goes for male or female, romantic or platonic, any encounter in which you want the person to like you (everyone who uses this technique and is wowed by its absolute accuracy, send me $1!).

One last thing. You can't be OBVIOUS about it. You have to be very natural. They fold their hands, very casually fold yours, etc.... The operative word is "casual."

P.S.
Btw, I found this article from The Week news magazine's archives that shocked me when I first read it, the author is in so 100% COMPLETE agreement with me!


The article goes on to say there was a study in France where 166 students took part in a role play experiment involving buying and selling. Result? 67 percent of sellers who mimicked the person they were targeting achieved a sale, as opposed to just 12.5 percent of those who did not mimic the person.
They repeated the experiment at Stanford University. This time they used computer-generated "sellers" instead of humans. Some of these virtual-reality "salespeople" were programmed simply to move in a human-like way; the rest to mimic their adversaries' head movements, with a four-second delay. Again, the mimics had a far higher hit rate than the non-mimics.
And, they also offered MY caveat:


I'll deal with the rest of your post tomorrow.... if you care to hang around, seeing as how you deleted your post (I copied the text from Butterfly's post). Still, it might help someone else, so manana!

Phlgirl2000 ... Welcome Welcome Welcome ...

I too see that you deleted your post, but it was a good one, and i hope you come back and join in with us!

Sister Kadijah ... your response above is sooooooo wonderful !!! ...

I LOVE LOVE LOVE reading you when you're talking like this ...

You're a great teacher! You should keep this side of yourself in view ... gosh ... you're good!

While the response is somewhat "sharp" for lack of a better word, it's so on the money!

I would never have been able to come up with it myself! I would have responded so differently!

But i'm glad you chimed in, leaving no need for me to put my little raggedy encouragement on the table!

You did real good ... not only for Phlgirl2000 ... but everyone that might happen upon this thread!

Good Look'n Out ... Thanks Sister!

Love You!



Destee

 

[Kadijah]

Phlgirl2000 ... Welcome Welcome Welcome ...

I too see that you deleted your post, but it was a good one, and i hope you come back and join in with us!

Sister Kadijah ... your response above is sooooooo wonderful !!! ...

I LOVE LOVE LOVE reading you when you're talking like this ...

You're a great teacher! You should keep this side of yourself in view ... gosh ... you're good!

While the response is somewhat "sharp" for lack of a better word, it's so on the money!

I would never have been able to come up with it myself! I would have responded so differently!

But i'm glad you chimed in, leaving no need for me to put my little raggedy encouragement on the table!

You did real good ... not only for Phlgirl2000 ... but everyone that might happen upon this thread!

Good Look'n Out ... Thanks Sister!

Love You!



Destee

Wow. Wow. Wow! (if I weren't so black, I'd blush!).

Thank you!


P.S.
If I were in a similarly bad situation, I'd prefer the honest, unvarnished truth to the sugar-coated one. People tend to lap up the "sugar" and forget the substance.


P.S.S.
I forgot to write (about the woman I "forced" to like me ....lol!) There were 4 other women at the same table with us. Not ONE caught on that I was mimicking her actions. Try it. You'll be shocked.

Oh, and "casual" is the key. She folds her hands, don't "clap" your hands together loudly when you fold them or squeeze them tighter than she does.

 

[Destee]

Wow. Wow. Wow! (if I weren't so black, I'd blush!).

Thank you!


P.S.
If I were in a similarly bad situation, I'd prefer the honest, unvarnished truth to the sugar-coated one. People tend to lap up the "sugar" and forget the substance.


P.S.S.
I forgot to write (about the woman I "forced" to like me ....lol!) There were 4 other women at the same table with us. Not ONE caught on that I was mimicking her actions. Try it. You'll be shocked.

Oh, and "casual" is the key. She folds her hands, don't "clap" your hands together loudly when you fold them or squeeze them tighter than she does.

It's not that i would have "sugared" up my answer ... as i probably would have went in another whole different direction ... i would have said ... YESSSS ... they are probably discriminating against you ... and you might wanna consider what you can do on your own, that is not so dependent on them ... yeah ... i wooda said sump'n like that ...

But your response was soooo much better!

You were able to speak directly to where she was, as it relates to her higher level of education, which i could not have done. You gave her tips on how to win the game she's in, the one she has worked very hard to be a part of ... which was really really good! It is obvious that you know a few things about higher education, which is awesome! While i'm not a college graduate, i have been in the company of a few, and ... well ... it sorta kinda takes one to know one ...

So your being here, helping in the way that you did ... spoke so specifically to her situation!

If i had obtained the credentials she has, i'd want to talk with you ... and not destee ...

It's good we have you here ... beautiful!

Thanks Again!



Destee