Black Spirituality Religion : The Fall of Man

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by river, Oct 16, 2010.

  1. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    The fall of man in the Garden of Eden is the foundation of all Christian teaching. Without that fall Christians would not be able to convince people that they need Jesus. Christians say Jesus saves us from our sin. They go to people in Africa, pre Columbian America, aboriginal Australia and are faced with the question, what sin? How can we convince these people whose behavior and moral standards are far superior to ours that they need a Jesus to save them from sin that is more evident n us than in them? Eureka! The fall of man. Original sin. Brilliant! You’re not a sinner because of what you do but because of who you are. You’re a child of Adam and because he sinned that makes you a sinner even if you never actually commit any sin that in and of itself merits eternal damnation.

    Christians tell us that because of Adam’s sin God is just in sending all of us to hell. Without the concept of Adam’s sin there is no justice in condemning the human race and therefore the preaching of the Gospel is moot.

    Let’s look at this fall.

    God creates man but does not give him the knowledge of good and evil. He places that knowledge in the fruit of a tree then tells the man not to eat the fruit. Having no knowledge of good and evil the man has no way of knowing that it is wrong to not do what god told him to do. In fact his fatal flaw was that he did what everybody told him to do at the time they told him. Eve told him to eat the fruit and he did without delay. There was no wrestling with his conscious. He had none.

    When the serpent brought the fruit to Ever her inchoate female intuition told her that maybe dying might be something she did not want to do. But noting in her world had ever died so she had no real knowledge of death. She looks at the fruit and sees it is good for fruit and because she had no knowledge of the concept of lying she believed the serpent when he told her it would make her wise. So she ate it and gave it to Adam. This is insane. God was supposed to have made these people perfect but even before the fall they make this insane decision. We know what death is. We know what sickness is. If someone gave you a plate of carrots and told you there was cyanide in it and if you eat it you will die would you say “Well you know carrots have lots of vitamin A and other nutrients to improve your eyesight and build your brain cells so when this old cat isn‘t looking I'm going to eat it.” Either Adam and Eve were insane from their creation or they acted on their lack of knowledge.

    Then God comes back and acts all surprised oh you ate the fruit. Now I’m going to have to punish you. Yet no where did God say he would punish all humanity. In fact in the four or so thousand years between Adam and Paul there is not one biblical writer that attributes the suffering of man to Adam. How is it that it is not strange to the Christian mind that something which had such a catastrophic effect on the entire human race, something that is the very raison detre of Jesus and no prophet great or small thought it worth mentioning.
     
  2. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    "Yet no where did God say he would punish all humanity."

    And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
    Genesis 6: 7

    "In fact in the four or so thousand years between Adam and Paul there is not one biblical writer that attributes the suffering of man to Adam."

    "How is it that it is not strange to the Christian mind that something which had such a catastrophic effect on the entire human race, something that is the very raison detre of Jesus and not prophet great or small thought it worth mentioning."

    And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
    Genesis 6: 5

     
  3. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    The scriptures you quoted prove my point. These scriptures show God punishing men for their own personal sins. If you were trying to show scriptures where God is punishing men for the sin of Adam outside of the writings of Paul you have yet to show me that such scripture exists.
     
  4. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I tried.

     
  5. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    And I commend you for trying.
     
  6. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Thank you sister river...But you do recognize that the scriptures cited represent a non-break in the story line, subsequent to the Fall?

     
  7. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Actually they don't. They make it clear that the shortcomings of humanity go back a long way but as I said they do not attribute these shortcomings to Adam. Since there was no one before Adam* we cannot establish a before-after difference showing that humans were not sinful before Adam sinned. As I said Paul is the only biblical writer who establishes a relationship between Adam's sin and the sin of the rest of humanity. That's not a continuation in the story. That is a rewriting of it.

    *At least not in the Bible. In reality humans were on the earth millions of years before the biblical earth was even created.
     
  8. Mikha'el

    Mikha'el Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Perhpas its because eve convinced adam to sin...granted thats no excuse for adam to sin but it was eve who initated it...If I remember right it was Eve who got the brunt of the punishment
     
  9. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I disagree. The shortcomings are understood, through common sense, to be directly attributed to Adam, again, there is no break in the story line.


     
  10. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Gee no wonder there are so many different denominations in Christianity. So anything you want the Bible to say that it doesn't actually say you can just "understand" it to say. That doesn't make the Bible a very useful book. I could do the same with The Cat in the Hat and it will meet all my spiritual needs.
     
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