Black People : The Bad Things about Capitalism

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Destee, Jul 27, 2009.

  1. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Peace and Blessings Family,

    I remember starting a thread some time ago, asking about capitalism, what it means, etc., and Brother Kemetkind told me that i was already involved in it, and should know what it means ... :eeek: ... but i didnt, and still don't, and am now rewording this in a way that might elicit responses that will help me understand it better.

    I keep hearing that capitalism is bad, wrong, etc., and am hoping that you all can help me see why, in an effort to understand it.

    Is capitalism really bad, or is it the inherent racist practices twisted throughout the version we see / live, that makes it bad?

    Why is capitalism bad?

    Thanks in advance.

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  2. Demijo

    Demijo Member MEMBER

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    Capitalism is simply a system in which monetary wealth (capital) belongs to private people rather than a collective government, king, comrade, church, etc.

    I've heard plenty of people blame capitalism for slavery because slaves in the U.S "belonged" to private owners. But, slavery preceded capitalism all over the world. And, the success of capitalism in the industrial Northern U.S was partly responsible for defeating slavery in the South during the Civil War.

    Capitalism can be a lot of things but if anyone tells you it's simply "bad" they've oversimplified it into the mud. Capitalism can be a fine system if it's controlled properly, at least until a truly better system is invented. If anyone has blind faith in or blind opposition to capitalism they are just blind and anyone with more understanding of the system will take advantage of them.
     
  3. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Brother Demijo ... thank you for sharing, and i have some questions ... :)

    First, i really like your very simplistic, one sentence definition of capitalism, for it makes it easy for someone like me (who knows nothing) to try and understand. Thank You.

    Using that sentence ... Capitalism is simply a system in which monetary wealth (capital) belongs to private people rather than a collective government, king, comrade, church, etc. ... makes me wonder, how much of this country is truly capitalist?

    The historic role that the collective government has played, in assuring that only some of the private people they have jurisdiction over, will become wealthy, by legislating that other private people ... are not people at all ... to the advantage of a select group ... seems something other than capitalism.

    Would you agree with that?

    In addition, this selective capitalistic opportunity, afforded to some, has in turn, made the same "collective government" rich with increase ... also seems to suggest that it's not a straight, out of the box, capitalistic society ... since the collective government has benefited.

    Again ... what do you think of that.

    Also, last but not least, am i to understand that the term capitalist and slavery are not necessarily tied to each other. That a country could be capitalist, and have no slavery in their history. Do you know of any countries like that, that you could name? Hmmm ... i think i'm thinking out loud right now ... but ... it's not necessarily the capitalism that's the problem, but the racism ... right?

    Thanks for helping me understand enough to even have a question!

    Much Love and Peace.

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  4. Putney Swope

    Putney Swope Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    We pretty much, had a free market system along with elements of socialism...

    for over 30,000 years and it remained somewhat stable until around 800 years ago with the birth of Islam which encouraged many African leaders to become empire builders and the rudiments of militarism and fascist ideologies towards non muslims and women.

    What we see today is a far cry from what Adam Smith had devised, and is making him roll over in the grave.
    Capitalism is just like communism, something which is meant to be good but cannot be left alone unatended like a campfire in the middle of a dense forest, because they will burn and harm many.
    these systems only work with an administration that accentuates altruism over avarice.
    During the Kennedy administration capitalism worked quite well, however the Rockeffelors, Democratic oil barrons and republican war hawks had to make sure that that the nation was unable to print it's own currency and that the Federal Reserve would maintain a stranglehold on all economic progress of everyday Americans.
    Kennedy had hoped to abolish that foreign bank calling shots on US soil.
    The Fed Reseerve at the ehest of the multinational family of the morgans caused the great depression simply by shorting the supply of capital available so regardless of how much suffering and horror, they were able to buy stocks for pennies on the dollar.
    The neocons and neoliberls had tried since the time of Reagan to destroy Glass Steagal,which was a safegurad against corporate corruption, hedge funds, subprime scandals and another depression.
    They united in 1999 to destroy this act so that the "campfire" has turned into a major forest fire that is now burning out of control and without water to put it out.

    Collective Black economics within a nation state can run perfectly under an altruistic non egotistical communism or socialism, however for situation when one is the minority in a corrupt nation,
    capitalism is a stepping stone to freedom;
    (Claude Anderson, "Black Labor White Wealth")

    Only by working for ourseves, with our own means of production and the making of our own food clothing and shelter as well as alternative energy, will we ever find any real freedom and respect.
    (Marcus Garvey, "Philosophy and Opinions",
    Elijah Muhammed, "Message to the Black Man"
    John Henrik Clarke, "African World Revoution",
    Amos Wilson, "Black Power", Chancelor Williams, "The Destruction of Black Civilizations")
     
  5. Demijo

    Demijo Member MEMBER

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    You're right Sister, it isn't pure capitalism because government interferes with spread of wealth among the private citizens and private citizens with wealth interfere in government. Government makes it more profitable to invest in oil than work in a hospital saving people's lives every day because government was altered by the people who like to invest in oil.
    This is the result of pure capitalism without the oversight of a careful and well-educated society or the foresight of a good government.

    Exactly. In order for a capitalist society to exist for the benefit of it's people it needs to have the oversight of an impartial government that isn't influenced by capital. As long as a government gets its money from the same banks that the people do the government will be helpless to protect it's people from the biggest benefactors of capitalism; those who control the majority of wealth.

    Without government oversight, which is what some people call "pure capitalism," those already rich will continue getting richer until they own almost everything and it becomes a feudal society once again.

    The U.S uses some government oversight but it cannot oversee the very richest people because these people control the government through their capital. Thus, the government oversight just prevents anyone else from becoming equally wealthy and balancing the government's bias.

    I can't think of any countries anywhere without slavery somewhere in their history. Capitalism can end slavery though, like it did in Europe, unless racism is invented to prevent individual slaves from owning wealth.
    And a purely capitalist system can return to slavery if the lowest class is always in debt and forced to work to pay off the debt.

    Communism can also end slavery with the redistribution of wealth, and return to slavery if all wealth is controlled by a few members of government + their friends who dictate what everyone does.

    luv
     
  6. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa and the Family!




    Destee,

    Here is a link to a well discussed thread, which approached the exact questions you have raised, it is titled: ''Racism''/''White Supremacy''... Fact or Fiction?

    The starter of the thread was Lokman, it was posted 8-14-2008, and it has 263 replies 8,796 views to date: http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55454&highlight=racism+capitalism

    And this link delves into the bad part of capitalism you are asking about: http://destee.com/forums/showpost.php?p=539614&postcount=190

    Again, this particular thread drew some of the best minds at Destee.com into discussion, it is in my view, a very good read.

     
  7. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    thank you, Demijo

    Demijo seems to be doing a real good presentation.
    at the heart, it's private ownership.
     
  8. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    As I understand it, 'capital' refers to the means of production (ie. factories, farms, machines used to create things et cetera). A relatively small amount of the population, capitalists, own means of production and workers are forced to rent their services to them just to survive (it might be a voluntary contract but for most of us, there is no serious alternative as not everyone is fortunate enough to acquire capital). Although the workers are the only reason why means of production are valuable to begin with, they don't fully benefit from their own labor, much of their wage goes to the capitalist. Noam Chomsky refers to this as wage slavery and I would have to agree. Communism means that everyone earns the same salary (unfortunately, the word is often associated with the totaliarianism of Stalinist Russia) but socialism doesn't necessarily mean an equal distribution of wealth, it simply means that the workers own their own means of production.

    It is not possible for everyone to acquire capital, capitalism necessarily involves the exploitation of workers by their capitalist employers. Capitalism is inherently degrading, it's an assault on human dignity to have to "work for" someone else just to have the basic necessities of life.




    It's important to make a distinction between personal possessions and private ownership of capital. Communists/socialists don't think that it's wrong for people to own (or at least 'use', 'posses') books, a tv, an apartment, a watch etc., only that means of production should be 'owned' and controlled exclusively by the workers who use those means of production to make money for the capitalist.
     
  9. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    i don't think so......
     
  10. Demijo

    Demijo Member MEMBER

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    If working for someone else is an assault on human dignity no society could have much dignity because every society involves working for the benefit of others, especially communism. Even a family of 4 living in the jungle involves working for others, unless you'd rather be disowned.

    No communist system puts the means of production under the control of the workers (which would be impossible anyway because each worker has a different opinion). Every communist system puts the means of production under the control of the state, the few members of which can do whatever they want regarding the means of production, the distribution of resources, and each individual's quotas to be met before they receive their allotted payment. Communism is like capitalism with only 1 gigantic corporation; there is no option to quit and management will have no incentive at all to listen to workers because every worker's political power is directly subject to the whim of management.

    Communisms are very efficient because there is no competition or salary and they are livable as long as management is extremely intelligent and benevolent. Just like monarchies.
     
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