Black People : "The Allegory of the Classroom:" An exposure of Black leadership

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Asomfwaa, Nov 17, 2011.

  1. Asomfwaa

    Asomfwaa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hotep Siblings,

    On my website, I write articles for African people. This one relates to leadership in the African community. It's entitled "The Allegory of the Classroom."

    “Firstly, I find it apt to tell you a tale that I have heard from a child. He spoke to me wiser words than one would otherwise expect from the runt. In his little, dusty pants, the youth told me how his classroom teacher was a racist. He reported how this teacher proposed that Africans had no history. He said in this classroom, of the thirty students, ten looked about after this comment, clearly knowing better and very perturbed. The child reported on how eyes jumped to and from other eyes, to a point where each of the ten touched each of the other ten, or the sides and backs of the heads of the other 20. He went into more detail, claiming that every ‘conscious’ kid looked at every other ‘conscious’ kid and registered the ‘unconscious’ kids. So in this classroom, every concerned child looked on every other child. Finally, each eye showing a slight shyness, a lack of concern, or maybe a need for a spark, stopped and class continued; the teacher unchallenged. The story perplexed the child, but greatly informed me. You see, it takes one thing to be ‘concerned,’ blame it on history, but whence concerned, one looks for leadership not amongst soi-disant leaders but amongst soi-disant followers. So to speak, leaders do not lead, followers do. Therefore, truly followers–meaning everyone–is a leader.”

    For interested parties, the website is AfricanBloodSiblings.Wordpress.com

    Hotep!
     
  2. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hotep and welcolm to Destee!

    Analogies, prompt one to observation and analysis.

    1 Observation regarding human nature, psychology, personality typology;
    Out of 5 thousand people, how many are dynaminc agressives, or dynamic assertives?

    2 Observation regarding human nature and economics;

    Out of 5 thousand, how many would prefer
    1 to go to work,
    2, get a nice phatt check at the end of a week
    3 and go home and enjoy quality time with their families,

    and how many would desire to own their
    1 own small business,
    2 be concerned with the fluctuations of capitalism,
    3 pay rent for the business location and the utilities
    4 do the accounting, purchasing and bill pay
    5 pay salaries,
    6 and manage divergent personalities to work
    together harmoniously,
    7 and then chack each day
    for quality assurance,
    8 then on the weekends,
    devise methodoliges to trouble shoot,
    or increase the bottom line?

    What are the observations from a statisitical analysis of human nature? regardless of race or ethnicity?

    3 Observation of the economic ascendancy and future prosperity of ethnic groups that have,
    non limelight, non photo-op, economic leadership and those that do not;
    The Yemenis that practically monopolize the grocery stores in the innercities
    across the nation,
    the Koreans that practically monopolize the fruit and veg stores, fish markets and dry cleaners in the inner cities,
    the Mexicans and other Aztec and Mayan peoples, that make up a vast amount of skilled and unskilled labor in the innercities, as well as make a 360 turn around of their dollars into their communties with Spanish speaking small businesses;

    all will more then likely do very well when the national economy takes a nose dive, because they all have underground and to most of us face less economic leadership.

    So in lieu of these observations;

    and in observation of the African American inner city communities, and the statisitcs of where we are heading if we continue at the same rate we are going now,

    analysis;
    with all due respect if everyone Black as you say is a leader, according to your hypothesis, and our innercities look the way they look and function the way they barely function,
    does that hypothesis, mean that we are lazy?
     
  3. Asomfwaa

    Asomfwaa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hotep, dear Sibling,

    Perhaps I will blow your mind, or seem silly in my optimism, but to answer your questions, I'll be curt.

    Question 1: All of them.

    Question 2: All of them.

    Question 3: I was taught to not call anyone lazy--imagine, a White man told me that it's "racist," but it's not a question of laziness as to why Africans do not do much in their communities, it's a question of mis-education.

    I should add to my curtness.

    For question one:
    You ask how many are dynamic aggressives and dynamic assertives. Sibling, these are fancy terms far beyond the necessity of this discussion. Ask me, Brother, how many Africans do I know that will run after a cannon, being operated by a White man, see their brothers getting blown up, and continue running until they reach that cannon. Normally, I would say none--but our ancestors did that. You understand? Forget these added words of the European's lexicon--positive role models make positive role players.

    For question two:
    I do not usually quote White people, but I like this one: "Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, they meet at the bar." -- Drew Cary. Black people are incredibly willing to "do for self." So far, however, we do not know that we are 'doing for self.' I have asked people "Where is the nearest Black bookstore?" and they were clueless--and though there were three nearby, they pointed me down to the White bookstore! Besides that--anyone can run a small business--it's 'tough' for everyone.

    For question three:
    Brother, I have learned not to compare other ethnic groups to African people--their histories are different. It's worth mentioning three things: 1) I have heard that gangs fund the Asian towns [this is hearsay.] 2) Other ethnic groups get their places in the cities by way of American foreign policy [sounds farfetched.] 3) African people have done the whole independent city thing way better than any of these groups can imagine. I do not mean in Ancient times (though that's valid) but in Oklahoma. That said--it's not that we are lazy, but mis-educated.
     
  4. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    They did that because they had a culture that lead their motivations and actions, as well as leaders! and that is why they are not doing it now.

    Now you can use any terminology you desire, the European terminology or the African terminology for personality types, but you cannot deny the science of human nature something we analyzed and understood thousands of years before Freud and Jung

    Yes and everyone can bungie jump but how many want to! you missed the point

    Out of 5 thousand, how many would prefer
    1 to go to work,
    2, get a nice phatt check at the end of a week
    3 and go home and enjoy quality time with their families,

    and how many would desire to own their
    1 own small business,
    2 be concerned with the fluctuations of capitalism,
    3 pay rent for the business location and the utilities
    4 do the accounting, purchasing and bill pay
    5 pay salaries,
    6 and manage divergent personalities to work
    together harmoniously,
    7 and then check each day
    for quality assurance,
    8 then on the weekends,
    devise methodoliges to trouble shoot,
    or increase the bottom line?

    So you are saying that inspite of a 30 thousand year history of chiefs, councils of elders and Black leadership,
    http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aprt/hd_aprt.htm

    you now have a methodology to educate each and every Black person to be a leader?

    Oklahoma's Black Wall street, was not called Black Main street, and was not simply some 360 funded community, it was a location of Black elite wealth where women went to Paris on steamer ships to shop and buildings were made with interiors with completely marble walls and brass fixtures.

    Is that a solution for the 40% of our people living in poverty?

    But lets go with your premiss, even in that circumstance there will be one or two people who will be the intitiator and organizer of this commune, not each and every.
     
  5. Asomfwaa

    Asomfwaa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    But Brother, what is a leader? When you want to follow someone--for whom do you look? No matter who you 'isolate,' they have no qualifications until you assess them. That said--the only qualification for being assessed is presence. Therefore, everyone is a "leader" insofar as everyone is assessed for leadership. That's the point of the analogy.

    You make it seem as if there's more to leadership than "meets the eyes." Everyone literally follows everyone. That's how cliques are formed.

    It's a question that one can not answer. Today, very few--but we're not talking about today. The future is amiable. You could ask--"How many Blacks want to wear Afros" and depending on the year you will get a different percentage. We need to assess "why" rather than dally over "How many?"

    Truth is--a lot of White people want to bungie jump. It's not preposterous for Black people in White circles to want to bungie jump. And in a local group, bungie jumping may be better than sex. Question is "Why" not "how many?"

    You are using your own definition. I showed how everyone is a leader--I'm not saying that I will make everyone a leader. I am showing you that everyone follows everyone. Was the allegory unrealistic to you or do you remember looking around your classroom for whether you should say something--or better, looking around at an audience for whether you should clap?

    Everyone is a leader--in that everyone follows everyone. It's not a matter of everyone having distinct qualities. If you as a Black person aren't doing much in your life--other Black people see that and follow your example. Is this farfetched to you?

    Try going on a train and talking to someone. Sure enough, eventually, a third person may talk to you, and if you try it long enough, the whole train can start talking. I've never seen it--but it's not farfetched.

    "Black elite."

    You are adding your own definition. The basis of conversation is listening not talking. I noticed that you mentioned this "dynamics" in another thread--maybe it's your issue--but you notice that at some point you are debating your own issue--talking rather than listening.

    No where in the allegory do I add any qualifications on a leader. And I define my terms.

    If you want to define your term of 'leader' as one with 'dynamic aggressiveness' and 'dynamic assertiveness' then that's your business. I do not define 'leader' as that. I do not even know what those terms mean. Or "360 funded" for that matter.

    Tell me--if you solely thing that those "da's" are leadership qualities, then how can you convince yourself that rappers and models and singers are role models and leadership figures? How can you accuse 'culture' of causing issues when 'culture' by and large doesn't have these qualifications? If we must have your conversation then please answer that.

    Define your terms so we can see why you are dropping them here. I have not studied economics and I definitely haven't deeply studied its lingo--which, truly, in a popular forum, should not be used without definition.
     
  6. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    They did that because they had a culture that lead their motivations and actions, as well as leaders! and that is why they are not doing it now.
    That makes absolutely no sense
    Has no foundation in human history, (or in the animal kingdom from insects to whales)
    Has no foundation in African culture, or any human process of the most simple form of organization,
    Whether a Block Association, a Family Susu, A Rights of Passage organization for young Black girls or boys, a Center for African studies;
    All require leadership and function with leadership, so where other then in your imagination
    can you show, an example even in nature of an actual circumstance of ,
    each person being a leader or each individual being a leader and working together for a common cause or the common good?

    The reasons why are evident and if you took the time to look, that is why the list was numbered, quite frankly who in the hell wants all of those headaches?
    Even a 14 year old child knows what kind of long , sometimes thankless and maybe non productive hours a person must sacrifice for some time to get any small business off the ground! I am trying to make sense and you are talking about hair styles?

    Why would you strain on a simile? If I came from planting potatoes, and pointed to a UFO or a chemtrail would you cut me off, forget what I am pointing to and tell me how much soil I have under my nails?
    No you are, here is the definition understood,
    here as well as in Ancient African culture;
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/leader

    No you have showed no one nothing, you have simply reiterated your thesis with no antithesis or hypothesis

    No it’s not farfetched, it is the view of us, from white supremists, and negroes like Herman Cain, and is a statement that I have heard from the mouths of Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan, and before them Barry Goldwater and William Buckley

    Therefore if your thesis are not based on observation
    or mathematical or scientific principles, or an understanding of sociology, or even African culture, then what is all of this based on?
    It is farfetched and in fact kinda bizarre, because I live in NYC and ride the train daily for 40 years, and have not seen this, unless there is an incident of untoward or dangerous or harassing behavior, and the one who says something first while everyone sits scared to say a word is the one with the leadership quality.
    Bobby Seale said it took him 6 months to organize 28 people
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/leader

    Prove it! then prove that you are not!

    No brother, just as every single word I type in this slave masters language, in each sentence has a meaning that we agree upon, I fail to see the need to be creative, when clear cut definitions of the word are agreed upon as well, so really where are you going with this? One can ask what is the definition of every single word in the sentence above, but what is the fruition of such a discussion?

    All due respect brother that statement sounds like the stove calling the refrigerator white because it seems you sir decided not to listen or read my statement about African leadership and more then likely did not look at the link provided

    .
    You have just gotten here so I will be kind and not give my opinion of your posts, but somehow I am reminded of John McCain and his debate with Obama, who kept saying to Obama "this is so because I say it's so, I don't have to support or validate my statements"

    huh??????????? If that makes sense then my real name is StaggerLee

    Where are you going with this did I say that? Or is this an illusion you wish to perpetrate in this conversation as a distraction?

    Accuse what????

    "Ask me, Brother, how many Africans do I know that will run after a cannon, being operated by a White man, see their brothers getting blown up, and continue running until they reach that cannon. Normally, I would say none--but our ancestors did that. You understand? Forget these added words of the European's lexicon--positive role models make positive role players."

    They did that because they had a culture that lead their motivations and actions, as well as leaders! and that is why they are not doing it now.

    Like you said “listen” because if you sir was “listening you would not have taken my statement out of context


    No sir you use terms as though you have recreated the English language, either we agree with what a term means according to what every one understands

    or there is no conversation and no reason for any pontification

    Have a nice day!
     
  7. Asomfwaa

    Asomfwaa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Blessed Brother Ankhur,

    I am operating under the definition that a leader is one who leads. I bring up the dispute of definitions because you mentioned 'dynamic assertiveness' and 'dynamic aggressiveness' which are without the definition of leader.

    You ask:
    The answer is always, solely because even soi-disant leaders have to follow their following. In order to say that a leader leads, one has to say that followers follow a leader, but if the leader follows the following then the following leads the leader. It's a truthful wordplay, Brother.

    But Brother, we both agree that culture can shape individuals into anything. A headache is not as bad as running after a live cannon.

    What is this supposed to mean?
     
  8. Orisons

    Orisons Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    WHICH WAY FORWARD IN THE 21ST CENTURY?
    When are WE GOING TO TEACH ALL of our people THE TRUTH?

    Have you ever heard of the GAP African American community of Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA [why not Google them]?

    The destruction of the GAP community of Tulsa on June 1st 1921 is still marginalised and ignored TODAY in a similar manner to the way the pivotal role Fidel Castro and the 55 000 Cuban volunteers [which was funded by Gaddafi/Libya] he sent to fight with the MPLA in Angola against UNITA and the South African Expeditionary Army destroyed Apartheid’s military backbone, were you aware of these FACTS?

    The Greenwood, Archer and Pine community of Tulsa is STILL a truly superb template of the WAY TO GO in the 21st century because of their DO FOR SELF ethos so rather than re-invent the wheel why don’t we just use it rationally?

    Would you agree that our community’s in the UK, USA rest of the Diaspora and specifically our country’s Education departments NEED to take over and refocus the schooling of our youth in general, the History curriculum being taught at ALL levels in particular, to curb the ongoing pollution of our knowledge base with the Euro-centric GARBAGE as opposed to TRUTH that we previously had no option other than to ingest?

    Would you also concede that being CRUSHED and marginalized as sub human in your homeland by STRANGERS who have conquered YOU and YOUR country and made it theirs, [which is exactly what Colonialism/Apartheid did to Africa and Africans]; is comparable or possibly even more spiritually and intellectually traumatizing and debilitating than the HOLOCAUST which enslaved/delivered my ancestors and [their tortured, mutilated and murdered siblings] over 35 million others to the USA and the rest of the Diaspora in general [Guyana with regard to ME specifically]?

    Can you NOW relate to why the peoples of African ethnicity in general, in the USA and the rest of the Diaspora [along with the Africans in Nigeria, South Africa] and the rest of Africa in particular NEED the so uplifting TRUTHS of an African centred History Curriculum as the core of resurrecting both the individual and collective self esteem necessary to kick start the African Renaissance in the 21st century?

    When are WE going to fully update the History Curriculum taught in our communities and even more critically in AFRICAN countries TODAY at ALL levels with the works of Dr Ivan van Sertima They Came Before Columbus, The African Presence in Ancient America (circa 1200-400 BCE as highlighted by the Olmec Heads, have YOU ever seen them) and Blacks in Science, Ancient and Modern etc; or even the still alive Anthony T Browder's Nile Valley Contributions to Civilization as ready made textbooks?

    Couldn’t we also utilize the Browder Files and Dr Frances Cress-Welsing’s “The Isis Papers for ordinary and advanced level African Studies textbooks, with the truly superlative “Yurugu- An African centred critique of European Cultural thought and behaviour” by Marimba Ani as the Doctorate level textbook?

    Given the example of how successfully the Asians in general, the Japanese, and even the formerly colonised Chinese and Indians have coped with this burden with comparatively limited natural resources in a consistently hostile environment, with even their communities in the Diaspora outperforming OURS; isn't the so consistently CLUELESS/TRECHEROUS performance of our socio-economic elite an ongoing DISASTER?

    Isn't the functional intelligentsia of any ethnicity responsible for deducing the strategic policies for moving the group forward collectively [whereas many of us are expecting our underclass to be the first on the planet to do so]?

    Even the well meaning members of our Elite like Cosby, Oprah, and many other actors/celebrities do not have the resources spiritually or intellectually or focus to perform this function by themselves, but at least some of them are trying, EH?

    You don’t see the current administration relying on Bill Gates, the recently deceased Steve Jobs or any of their IT/Business leaders to organise the USA’s social and political leadership and direction, though I must concede I know they would do a much better job than the retarded dimwits who were pulling G.W Bush's strings who are now doing the same with Obama, aren't THEY?

    Moving our elite from their current dysfunctional state or forming a new one which is rationally intelligently functional for our collective best interest is OUR greatest challenge of the 21st century, because as highlighted by the ongoing African HOLOCAUST of over 500 years now isn't it obvious that brilliant individuals will ALWAYS be just VICTIMS IN WAITING when existing/warring/competing with intelligently organised and led collectives?

    Isn’t anyone who genuinely believes they are not programmed
    graphically illustrating that their programming is COMPLETE!
     
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