Black Spirituality Religion : the abrahamic faiths are dead religions

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by nibs, Feb 10, 2007.

  1. nibs

    nibs Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    christianity, judiasm and orthodox islam all readily admit that they are dead religions.

    "orthodox islam"
    it is claimed that muhammad communicated directly with the angel gabriel and thus had direct divine inspiration. much of the arabic qu'ran was "revealed" to address situations occurring within the early muslim community during the time of the "prophet" muhammad's life. much of it dealing directly with the "prophet's" wives and concubines.
    now that muhammad is dead and the qu'ran complete; the muslims have lost their divine connection. orthodox muslims are now left interpretting texts and sayings about muhammad. the very principle that muhammad is the last "prophet" indicates that the divine connection will die after him.
    the entire nature of orthodox islam, and the muslim community, apparently changed at the point of muhammad's death; as it transformed from a living religion with a living divine connection; to a dead religion with "sacred" texts.

    "christianity"
    it is claimed that yeshua walked among men, performed miracles and taught. "a living son of god". "the living word of god". the disciples of christ were able to see their god directly and experience the presence of their god first hand.
    yeshua is dead and gone now. the living divine connection has been gone for 2000 years. christians are left with texts; many now debate the race of this yeshua; others debate the meaning of what he taught (gnostic, judaic, pauline...etc).
    what can't be debated is that the entire nature of the followers of yeshua changed from the point when he was on earth directly interacting with his followers; to the situation now, where he is dead, gone and people are unsure of his identity and teachings.

    "judiasm"
    in judiasm they bustle about interpretting their rabinnical texts, talmud's, torah's...etc. interpretting the "divinely inspired" words of god.
    however...in the torah: moses & aaron, isaiah, jeremiah, elijah...etc. they aren't debating over the interpretation of texts. when problems arise in their communities, "the word of the lord" comes to one of the prophets, miracles happen...etc. these judaic scriptures speak to a time when their prophets communicated directly with their god...however now they are left interpretting the words of dead men.

    each of these religions readily acknowledges a transition from being a living religion with a living connection to their deities; to a dead religion with "sacred texts" that must be preserved.

    the abrahamic faiths are dead religions; if we accept the claims of those faiths prima facie.

    the realitly is that there is no evidence that any of the abrahamic faiths were ever living religions or living traditions.
    there is no evidence that any of the abrahamic prophets or deities existed per se; or that there ever was a divine connection. however, there is no disagreement that there is no divine connection now.

    "sacred texts" are essential only for dead religions. any population or community that has not lost their divine connection; any community that has preserved the knowledge of how to communicate with the divine and obtain divine guidance...does not need "sacred texts".

    abrahamic "monotheists" should acknowledge that their true god is actually a book; ink & paper; as the book is what they know, believe in and place their faith in.

    people of the book indeed...
     
  2. hiphopolx

    hiphopolx Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I guess I'll do the the 1st reply here

    In my opinion (and I hate when ppl say 'my opinion' cause its like you're saying something in spite of logic, imperial evidence, or common sense but in my case I'm not neccesarily stuck to my own opinions. I just use it in the cases that I'm not aware of the logic or imperial evidence and the subject matter is subjective or uncommon)
    as i was saying in my opinion your main point of the thread is a little off. Only because it doesn't 'seem' to take in consideration that the religious books of the 3 said religions are not always taken literally. So most individuals get together with like minded ppl and congregate about the meaning of these said books and most of these congregations have that alpha individual some groups will claim or not claim is the leader that guides those individuals to a common belief. I say 'not claim is the leader' because some groups don't like the the term 'leader' but they know who that alpha individual is.
    Moving on.....Like you implied their info is based on thier sacred texts. Each 1 of those religions you named have a whole spectrum of divisions under it. The spectrum goes from an extreme literal translation to a loose off shoot of their sacred text.

    So my point is that your thread doesn't take these divisions, that use the books as a guide but rely on the divine intelligence to substanciate their sacred books into consideration. And I wouldn't call this divine intelligence dead.

    peace :peace:
     
  3. nibs

    nibs Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    (hiphopolx) - I guess I'll do the the 1st reply here

    i appreciate the response.

    (hiphopolx) - your main point of the thread is a little off. Only because it doesn't 'seem' to take in consideration that the religious books of the 3 said religions are not always taken literally.

    we have the benefit of seeing where the original symbolism derives from. none of the abrahamic faiths actually acknowledge their nature-based (neter-based) origins as it undermines many of their direct interpretations. thus, the original symbolism is lost as it betrays even the loosest interpretations.

    (hiphopolx) - Moving on.....Like you implied their info is based on thier sacred texts. Each 1 of those religions you named have a whole spectrum of divisions under it. The spectrum goes from an extreme literal translation to a loose off shoot of their sacred text.

    the actual living traditions represented by the abrahamic faiths are not written down in those texts; only indirectly described. it's not possible to recreate the religion of moses or the knowledge known to yeshua or yanni the baptist simply by studying those texts. that type of sacred knowledge is not written down.
    this fact is compounded as much of the symbolism is overanalyzed because the original origins are denied.

    you can't write a living religion down in a book. you can preserve some amount of symbolism and some amount of philosophy; but the living divine connection which these religions represent is not recorded in the pages of these sacred texts.
     
  4. nibs

    nibs Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    judaism
    judaism reflects a mismash of kemetic, canaanitic & sumerian symbolism/spirituality.
    if we look at the old testament it follows a pretty universal model of development:
    symbolic cosmogenic theory
    symbolic explanation of why "they" are the chosen people
    establishment of religion & rituals
    pseudo-historical account

    symbolic cosmogenic theory
    judiasm does not acknowledge that their god is a solar god or a solar force. thus, the symbolism of the creation story in genesis: which is of the sun rising over the horizon of the waters; and tracing it's trek to land; is completely lost.
    if the identity with a solar deity is denied; the symbolism loses it's meaning. any reinterpretations will be misguided.

    symbolic explanation of why "they" are the chosen people
    keita expands on this point in his book, but the 12 tribes of israel are symbolic of the constellations. each constellation is associated with it's own deity; so to say "we descend from the 12 tribes" originally is to say "we are the children of the gods". this is in contrast to everyone else, who are simply men.
    according to the zohar the uniqueness of the children of israel is that they have the divine light within them, others do not.
    again, when we deny the original symbolism of the tribes of israel, we see that people begin to create fictional histories tracing their lineage literally to the constellations.
    we also know that the the sun was moving into the age of the ram, and this explains the symbolism of why they are sacrificing rams for the gods, and why moses is upset with the golden calf being created (as that age was now over).

    establishment of religion & rituals
    the old testament, and hebrew texts are written from a third person perspective. someone is watching moses & aaron in the mountains and recording what happens. therefore, we can how moses communicates with the gods, we can gain some glimpses of the initiatic rituals the priests undergo; and blood sacrifices that are performed as part of this initiation and in the communion with the gods. these practices and rituals continue today in african religions (which many like to claim judaism is); yet the specific techniques & rituals for communicating with the divine in those traditions is never written down, and certainly is not explained in the old testament. it is not possible to reestablish the religion of moses by studying the old testament as it isn't a handbook to that sacred knowledge.

    while i do not challenge the symbolism that is preserved in the old testament, it is no longer a living religion. it is essentially an ancient philosophy.
     
  5. nibs

    nibs Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    christianity symbolically
    christianity begins with it's own symbolism. the virgin giving birth is symbolic of the constellation virgo, giving birth to the sun (yeshua); not an actual virgin woman miraculously becoming impregnated.
    yeshua (the sun) is surrounded by 12 apostles. 12 again is symbolic for the constellations.
    thomas & jude (judas son of james) are twins; thus, they should be counted together as the twin constellation (gemini). this makes room for mary magdalene to assume here role as virgo.

    yeshua personally
    aside from that symbolism, there is a huge of yeshua's life not covered in the bible that is speculated on by many.
    the character of yeshua is woven around an individual who allegedly was initiated into higher orders of knowledge in kemet, since childhood. who, like yanni the baptist, must go out in the wilderness and fast as a part of some initiatic ritual. many have speculated as to the nature of the nazarenes, the essenes, tried to decode the descriptions of yanni & yeshua and associate them with specific initiatic orders...the bottom line remains that the new testament not an embodiment of the knowledge that yeshua or yanni were exposed to.
    for a person to truly like like yeshua, or understand yeshua; they should study under the schools of thought of yeshua's teachers...not some third party account of who yeshua was or what he said/meant.
    the new testament is not the doctrine that made yeshua the man he is portrayed as.
     
  6. OmowaleX

    OmowaleX Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    There is one major aspect of this post which neglects to recognize the essence of any "religion". It is not the written word of the "sacred text" which gives each particular faith its substance.

    You are an outsider looking in and not seeing, or feeling this essence, which makes each faith an EXTENSION of African Traditional Religious systems.

    Neter, or Nature, is only an aspect of LIFE, not the totality and it is through RITUAL that "communiion" is made with this essential life force (nature,neter).

    One would have to actually participate in the ritualistic aspect of BLACK adaptations of these so-called (falsely labeled) "abrahamic faiths" which themselves were developed within extensions of Black civilizations in antiquity, not the other way around. For example, much of what is credited as "Roman catholocism" itself was a system in which the Romans copied the African oracular tradition and the ritualistic aspect was later "canonized" and adopted as a state religion yet still retaining aspects of Horus-worship (via "Apollo").

    As far as "dead religions" and "sacred texts" are concerned, the same can be said of "Ausarian Religion", which is actually the "root" of the other faiths.
     
  7. nibs

    nibs Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    (OmowaleX) - You are an outsider looking in and not seeing, or feeling this essence, which makes each faith an EXTENSION of African Traditional Religious systems.

    the primary reason that i do not view these doctrines as "extensions" of african spirituality is that they are slanderous of african spiritual practices universally.

    (OmowaleX) - Neter, or Nature, is only an aspect of LIFE, not the totality and it is through RITUAL that "communiion" is made with this essential life force (nature,neter).

    i agree with this statement 100%.
    the rituals must have higher purpose and functionality; much of the power and substance of our original african rituals was stripped out of the abrahamic doctrines.
    particularly, divination, communication/veneration with spirits, particularly ancestors; the true, multifaceted purpose of "idols"...etc.

    (OmowaleX) - One would have to actually participate in the ritualistic aspect of BLACK adaptations of these so-called (falsely labeled) "abrahamic faiths" which themselves were developed within extensions of Black civilizations in antiquity, not the other way around. For example, much of what is credited as "Roman catholocism" itself was a system in which the Romans copied the African oracular tradition and the ritualistic aspect was later "canonized" and adopted as a state religion yet still retaining aspects of Horus-worship (via "Apollo").

    there is meaning in the original symbolism and the original names/words. why embrace a derivation that was not crafted directly by african hands?

    (OmowaleX) - As far as "dead religions" and "sacred texts" are concerned, the same can be said of "Ausarian Religion"

    a) kemetic spirituality never died, it went underground.
    b) across continental africa we have dozens of living traditions that are practiced in the open.
    i maintain that to understand kemetic spirituality truly one must understand the living african traditions that are practiced in the open.
     
  8. nibs

    nibs Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    islam
    islam, from it's creation, was based around the personality of muhammad. the [indirect] connection to allah exists through muhammad.
    unlike christianity; where yeshua was schooled in kemet, initiated into secret orders...etc; it is claimed that muhammad was unable to read.
    all of muhammad's doctrine is essentially what he was able to weave together based on his own "inspiration". this helps to explain why muhammad bluntly asserts as literal, aspects of christian doctrine and judaism that are known to be symbolic.

    interestingly, the bits of original knowledge that can be found in islam were added after the fact, by bilal. bilal is responsible for teaching muhammad the various prayer positions and alignments with the sun. the prayer positions, wudu (ablutions) these were practices that originated in kush and kemet; muhammad benefitted from having an african capable of teaching him some original rituals.

    beyond that, islam is a tradition based around the "inspirations" of a prophet who is no longer with us; who's interpretations of the doctrines that preceeded him destroy those earlier symbolism and understandings.
     
  9. OmowaleX

    OmowaleX Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The only point Im going to respond to here is in regards to "kemetic spirituality never died, it went underground."

    It "Died" in the sense that it became elitist and inaccessable to the MASSES. ( I have openly stated this many times previously)

    Furthermore, I continue to maintain the position it was the DEATH of "kemetic spirituality" in relation to the mases which is the ROOT CAUSE for the spiritual decline of Afican societies and cultures which became subject to slavery and colonialism.

    I dont expect anyone to agree with my statement in this regards, but again, I am not blaming "outsiders" for the Destruction of Black Civilization.

    Peace...
     
  10. emanuel goodman

    emanuel goodman Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    well put omo



    The moment we as a black entity on this planet turned away from mother neter and began to change and accept the new versions that were created from a distortion of the original teachings we have been in trouble on this planet. nature the divine is the way to ensure balance and order. since we are from the seeds of individuals whom have turned against nature long ago because some where along the line men began to learn from men and not from the universal intelligence. We must return to the utilization of truth via the neters in order for balance to be restored. However i have alwayls maintained that nothing on this planet was created by the tamuhu or caucasoid for it is not in them to be creative. However we have to be the first ones to fall from grace of the divinity because of the fact that we are the closest ones to the divinity via our geneology that is the universal way in order for other races to follow suit. i have always contested if we want to be responsible for the first creation we must be resposible for the first destruction as well. However when the lies and mis truths that are generated by and praticed by the subscribers of these religions is revealed the origin of the source(meaning black individuals) does not stop it from being invalid. To deny nature and the true source of all creation is to deny divinity and that is wrong even if we created the thought process. We must be the first to correct our errors if others are to follow suit. As long as we continue to embrace false teachings and lies about who are are and the source of all creation we can expect the world to follow suit. That is the way it is ,it was and it shall be by order of the creator.
     
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