Black People : the 7th generation philosophy

chuck

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Aug 9, 2003
13,471
2,160
Another Suggestion:

Halito and Osiyo, Blackbird and Company...

And, I applaud the creator of this website as well as the moderator of these boards for giving us
'black indians' equal space, ii. e., n order to reveal/tell our part of the story as well the legacy etc. of african descended people in this nation/on this continent...

But, while some things are the subject of general discussions and debates among non indigenous identified colored and black folk, those aformentioned things are obviously far better known and understood among and to ourselves-- as well of a particular importance/relevance/signficance etc...

So-- for the sake of us 'black indians' on this webisite also getting to know and understand where each one of us are and/or about etc.:

I invite you all to be a part of that aformentioned BLACKINDIAN ACTIVIST ALLIANCE's forum-- which is the part of the yahoogroups.com...

Obviously no disrespect intended nor meant:

Though-- because of the issues and problems we also are being challenged by/faced with as well-- which some (if not all of) us 'black indians' already know about or understand something about--which we too need and should want to come to some sort of agreement/consensus/etc. to actualy do something about--that is what motivates my suggestion...

Afterwards, we can and will get back to the rest of you, i. e., to share our feelings/thoughts/etc.. as regards the best means/ways/etc. you can aid our efforts for true equality etc. among indigenous folk--as we hope and pray to do likewise--as regards your dealings with other non-indigenous folk...

Understood?

FYI...

Later...

CTJ
 

chuck

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Aug 9, 2003
13,471
2,160
Yo, Blackbird-!

Good morning, black indian cuz, and I do hope you give my suggestion(s) serious consideration:

But in the meanwhile....

It is my personal experience that blacks who are associated with other people of color, they too have to do a difficult (if not impossible) balancing act,
i. e., between showing respect to those other folk they're identified and/or related to, as well as looking out for the best interests of their own immediate and/or extended family members etc.

Yes...

Obviously it would be both unintelligent and unwise to make overgeneralizations:

But...

There are also some undeniable reasons why folks who look like me and you
aren't always welcomed at more than just powows, i. e,. not via some indigenous peoples cultural/social/political circles etc too.

Dare I to also say and write that some (not all) indigenous folks mainstays etc. have held on to notions of themselves-- which may well have to be relegated to the past--as in--pre white contact--as well as some (not all) are into denial about the mixes/matches which took place--by chance or by choice--since then?

Well I just did anyway!

But not to digress...

And which is also true of black folk:

Being 'an indian' is not exclusively and sole or just simply a reflection of biology etc.

In the case of indigenous folk:

It is a way of life which spans countless generations...

It is also a heritage etc. most of our non-indigenous colored and black relations know nothing or understand little about...

It was not and is not their past or present gripes with us that creates the major issues and problems:

It was and is with them!

That places folks--like me and you--in the unenviable position of having to sometimes be peacemakers between the two aformentioned peoples...

Such also did (or does) characterize some of the past (if not present) issues/problems/etc. the Freedmen Descendants forebears also had to cope and deal with--i. e., when Oklahoma opted for statehol-- after communally held indigenous folks lands got broken up/lost/sold off to non indigenous identified folk--including what some history books called 'state negroes' //black exodusers etc.

Do remember that some former enslaved and other already free blacks fled the old slave owner controlled southern states in pursuit of a better life (among other places and spaces) out west--particularly after the end of Reconstruction and during the rise to power of white supremacists who ushered in the sad legacy of Jim Crow segregation which followed it:

Also, some of those aformentioned blacks had much different ideas etc., as to who they felt and thought they needed or wanted to relate to, than those aformentioned Freedmen Descendants' forebears...

Add to that this:

For the sake of their very survival, etc., even most (if not all) of the original Freedmen Descendants lived apart from other citizens of the same indigenous nations, i. e., because some had sided with the North--others with the south--during the U. S. Civil War...

Though overall, no people live in exclusive or total isolation to other peoples, etc., and what matters to most (if not all) indigenous folk were or are their relationship to the larger population and/or its elected officials, i. e., in terms of what gets given to them (if at all) by the one to the other, on the basis of past treaty agreements, etc.

So-- that is the backdrop--more or less--which leads to the following observation etc., which in order to more directly answer your question:

It is not as though most (if not all) black indian identified folk had or have no resources of their own to sustain and support who they (and us) are about...

On the other hand:

Sometimes I feel and think some of our and their mainstays aren't placing our and their concerns and worries within the context of the 'big picture', i. e., what is going on and down, as regards indigenous folk in general,
which leads to some of their mainstays to kinda sorta consider our needs/wants/etc. of secondary importance/relevance/significance/etc.

Therefore-- it becomes doubly important/relevant/significant that we must be more actively and far more effective-- helpful and supportive-- as regards what associations etc. we are already a part of...

So, why is it no headmen etc. of the northeastern nations have had anything to say or wrote about their feelings and thoughts, i. e., regarding the ongoing struggles of Virginia descendants of indigenous folk, who've been trying to gain federal recognition for generations, nor any comments on the aformentioned Freedmen Descendants ongoing plight as well?

Etc. etc., etc.

Simply put:

When some of our own fail to realize and recognize, that is-- when they can't or won't come to the aid of other like themselves, how they too come across to indigenous folk in general, that makes more difficult (and almost impossible) when it comes to what we're trying to bring about, too!

Yes...

The mainstays of the Black Power movement inspired me (among others like me and you too)...

But...

I don't feel and think enough of us are truly following their leads!

No...

I am not about making over indigenous folk into my image of what some folk allege or choose to believe that folks like us need or want them to be about...

Though I am striving and trying to get them to accept us as we are--as past generations of our folk were--i. e., as allies and advisors-- as well as part of
their very extended families of nations...

From powows to Wounded Knee II:

We've been in support of them...

Now it is time for them to do likewise...

Though as per usual:

One has their option to, first and foremost, help those who are striving and trying to help themselves...

FYI...

Take care...

Peace...

:SuN020:
 

Blackbird

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Jan 31, 2004
3,963
1,813
Da Desert, literally
Occupation
Professional Hitman
Good morning, black indian cuz, and I do hope you give my suggestion(s) serious consideration:

But in the meanwhile....

It is my personal experience that blacks who are associated with other people of color, they too have to do a difficult (if not impossible) balancing act,
i. e., between showing respect to those other folk they're identified and/or related to, as well as looking out for the best interests of their own immediate and/or extended family members etc.

Yes...

Obviously it would be both unintelligent and unwise to make overgeneralizations:

But...

There are also some undeniable reasons why folks who look like me and you
aren't always welcomed at more than just powows, i. e,. not via some indigenous peoples cultural/social/political circles etc too.

Dare I to also say and write that some (not all) indigenous folks mainstays etc. have held on to notions of themselves-- which may well have to be relegated to the past--as in--pre white contact--as well as some (not all) are into denial about the mixes/matches which took place--by chance or by choice--since then?

Well I just did anyway!

But not to digress...

And which is also true of black folk:

Being 'an indian' is not exclusively and sole or just simply a reflection of biology etc.

In the case of indigenous folk:

It is a way of life which spans countless generations...

It is also a heritage etc. most of our non-indigenous colored and black relations know nothing or understand little about...

It was not and is not their past or present gripes with us that creates the major issues and problems:

It was and is with them!

That places folks--like me and you--in the unenviable position of having to sometimes be peacemakers between the two aformentioned peoples...

Such also did (or does) characterize some of the past (if not present) issues/problems/etc. the Freedmen Descendants forebears also had to cope and deal with--i. e., when Oklahoma opted for statehol-- after communally held indigenous folks lands got broken up/lost/sold off to non indigenous identified folk--including what some history books called 'state negroes' //black exodusers etc.

Do remember that some former enslaved and other already free blacks fled the old slave owner controlled southern states in pursuit of a better life (among other places and spaces) out west--particularly after the end of Reconstruction and during the rise to power of white supremacists who ushered in the sad legacy of Jim Crow segregation which followed it:

Also, some of those aformentioned blacks had much different ideas etc., as to who they felt and thought they needed or wanted to relate to, than those aformentioned Freedmen Descendants' forebears...

Add to that this:

For the sake of their very survival, etc., even most (if not all) of the original Freedmen Descendants lived apart from other citizens of the same indigenous nations, i. e., because some had sided with the North--others with the south--during the U. S. Civil War...

Though overall, no people live in exclusive or total isolation to other peoples, etc., and what matters to most (if not all) indigenous folk were or are their relationship to the larger population and/or its elected officials, i. e., in terms of what gets given to them (if at all) by the one to the other, on the basis of past treaty agreements, etc.

So-- that is the backdrop--more or less--which leads to the following observation etc., which in order to more directly answer your question:

It is not as though most (if not all) black indian identified folk had or have no resources of their own to sustain and support who they (and us) are about...

On the other hand:

Sometimes I feel and think some of our and their mainstays aren't placing our and their concerns and worries within the context of the 'big picture', i. e., what is going on and down, as regards indigenous folk in general,
which leads to some of their mainstays to kinda sorta consider our needs/wants/etc. of secondary importance/relevance/significance/etc.

Therefore-- it becomes doubly important/relevant/significant that we must be more actively and far more effective-- helpful and supportive-- as regards what associations etc. we are already a part of...

So, why is it no headmen etc. of the northeastern nations have had anything to say or wrote about their feelings and thoughts, i. e., regarding the ongoing struggles of Virginia descendants of indigenous folk, who've been trying to gain federal recognition for generations, nor any comments on the aformentioned Freedmen Descendants ongoing plight as well?

Etc. etc., etc.

Simply put:

When some of our own fail to realize and recognize, that is-- when they can't or won't come to the aid of other like themselves, how they too come across to indigenous folk in general, that makes more difficult (and almost impossible) when it comes to what we're trying to bring about, too!

Yes...

The mainstays of the Black Power movement inspired me (among others like me and you too)...

But...

I don't feel and think enough of us are truly following their leads!

No...

I am not about making over indigenous folk into my image of what some folk allege or choose to believe that folks like us need or want them to be about...

Though I am striving and trying to get them to accept us as we are--as past generations of our folk were--i. e., as allies and advisors-- as well as part of
their very extended families of nations...

From powows to Wounded Knee II:

We've been in support of them...

Now it is time for them to do likewise...

Though as per usual:

One has their option to, first and foremost, help those who are striving and trying to help themselves...

FYI...

Take care...

Peace...

:SuN020:
Hau' Bro. Chuck,

Indeed, it is a challenging balancing act. Oftimes, I ask myself the question what if an issue directly supported and advocated by First Nation people, because it's beneficial to them, contradicts the well-being and propserity of Black people, where would I stand? When I am out in the world most people perceive me, and rightfully so, as a Black man but I am enrolled and I have immediate family family such as aunts and first cousins that live on the rez still. I am a Black man, but I'm also a member of the Comanche Nation.

I recall one of my uncles once stating, "The elders say there is no thing as part-Indian or half-Indian. It's either you're Indian or you're not. If you have Indian blood then you are Indian." My uncle that told me that was full-blood. We know life is not that simple when it comes to politics, ethnic identification and recognition and loyality. I have been called a "nixxer" a few times by Red people; many have been of mixed-blood Oklahoma Cherokee extraction, but an Osage once called me that. The old people on the rez knew my paternal grandfather and because the Numunuu are patrilineal I am recognized and tolerated, I guess.

It is a tenous situation people like us find ourselves in. Red or Black - I choose to let the sticks fall as they are and determine which stick to pick up when the time is most appropriate. When I go to powwows. I go not for acceptance, but because my spirit speaks out to attend and honor my ancestors. Generally, I notice that I am acknowledged because I genuinely allow my spirit to live. People will come to me and share things of their regalia with me; one vendor, him a Cherokee, gave my daughter a bearclaw print bracelet valued at $450.00 for free. During the time of giveaway, I give from my heart and my love for the people. Sometimes, I swear I see my maternal grandmother, incarnated, in some of the elderly women there. Many of these mothers are very maternal to me and often give me words of advice or wisdom. I just be and not seek acceptance and just my being is accepted.

I am Red and Black through and through. I champion issues I believe are important to both, either separately or as a whole. I honor my grandfather and my uncle during the grand entry and in the circle. I allow the drum to enter into my being. When I lived in Minneapolis, I would go to Indian Center and volunteer. I worked in the urban Indian community, giving what skills or talents I had away unselfishly. My loyalties lie where my heart lies that is with my people, Black and Red.

In order for the Great Peace to survive, there is always the need for peacemakers to extend the covenant chain.

Tuhwi
 

chuck06

New Member
MEMBER
Apr 18, 2006
1
0
Hau' Bro. Chuck,

Indeed, it is a challenging balancing act. Oftimes, I ask myself the question what if an issue directly supported and advocated by First Nation people, because it's beneficial to them, contradicts the well-being and propserity of Black people, where would I stand?

Chuck:

Good morning and Osiyo, Blackbird...

But if there is an need and and want for us to do as well?

We must be as candid and honest-- while we also strive to be fair and objective--i. e., about what we've also found and find are the shortcomings of some other folk in general--their self appointed or real leaders in particular...

Today's generations may or may not know or understand anything at all about the past relations between our black and red ancestors and/or their immediate descendants etc.

Add in the adversity leading to necessity of all sorts of people needing and wanting seek a better life off the so called rez:

And, some of everybody remaining there might well choose to believe whatever theywant to believe, whereas a person--like an elder--can only pass along so much--even if that other person has ears--though chooses not to hear--i. e., to acknowledge the truth--etc.

Being that me (among others) who usually identify mu (and ourselves) as a 'black indian' would naturally and normally remain a a personal (and private) matter--though I do so in order to be a better example--as well as to make a point--i. e., nobody defines who I am and what I'm about for me:

I also do hope and pray to help heal old wounds--which includes the crap centuries of white contact etc. plague other indigenousiden identified folk with-- too-!

Many (if not all) indigenous folk in North America have yet to face up to their need-- and my want --for them to truly go thru what some of us politicos call the decolonization process:

Thuogh at least some folks are now speaking up and out about the damage done for generations to indigenous children forced to attend those so called missions schools!

I do hope and pray real relief and some closure will come in the process...

You wrote:

When I am out in the world most people perceive me, and rightfully so, as a Black man but I am enrolled and I have immediate family family such as aunts and first cousins that live on the rez still. I am a Black man, but I'm also a member of the Comanche Nation.

Chuck:

It's a given you have a and the right to speak up and out about their issues and problems as well..

And, by the way, what do you feel or think about that old--uh--Bad Eagle character?

Holla holla...

You wrote:

I recall one of my uncles once stating, "The elders say there is no thing as part-Indian or half-Indian. It's either you're Indian or you're not. If you have Indian blood then you are Indian."

That's the 'onofficial' version...

It's the 'official' BIA version which we have to cope and deal with...

You wrote:

My uncle that told me that was full-blood. We know life is not that simple when it comes to politics, ethnic identification and recognition and loyality. I have been called a "nixxer" a few times by Red people; many have been of mixed-blood Oklahoma Cherokee extraction, but an Osage once called me that. The old people on the rez knew my paternal grandfather and because the Numunuu are patrilineal I am recognized and tolerated, I guess.

Chuck:

To say the least, I both realize we're just flawed human beings, and nobody is going to be accepted by everbody...

Though the personal shortcomings of individuals are one thing:

Elected officials of some indigenous nation spreaking hearsy and gossip as well as misinformation is quite another matter...

Too many times that aformentioned person or persons are only indians in terms of having distant indigenous ancestors and/or whose petty self interests only lead them to identify as being indians for the most obvious of reasons:

So the audacity and arrogence as well absurdity of such folk even daring to dispute my or you right to identify ourselves as 'indians' too!

Bad enough that some do anyway:

Worse those others who should know better (and really don't) sometiems go along with the same self serving b. s.!

So, again, we too have to know and understand who perceives and conceives of themselves as who, or continue to allow the wrong other parties to redefine them as they doggone well choose to...

The short version:

Many followers, few leaders, and-- among that handful--bad as well as good ones...

But let's move forward anyhow!

You wrote:

It is a tenous situation people like us find ourselves in. Red or Black - I choose to let the sticks fall as they are and determine which stick to pick up when the time is most appropriate. When I go to powwows. I go not for acceptance, but because my spirit speaks out to attend and honor my ancestors. Generally, I notice that I am acknowledged because I genuinely allow my spirit to live. People will come to me and share things of their regalia with me; one vendor, him a Cherokee, gave my daughter a bearclaw print bracelet valued at $450.00 for free. During the time of giveaway, I give from my heart and my love for the people. Sometimes, I swear I see my maternal grandmother, incarnated, in some of the elderly women there. Many of these mothers are very maternal to me and often give me words of advice or wisdom. I just be and not seek acceptance and just my being is accepted.

Chuck:

Who reacts or responds to who and to what is will continue to be a reflection of that individual's bad or good choices too...

I. e., in the case of our folk, they just kinda sorta gotta quit expecting even a lot of indigenous folk to welcome them in with open arms, because some indigenous folk have had no contact with black folk on the rez, and sometimes the little contact they've had off it leave them coming away with the impression many black folk don't perceive or conceive of them any differently than a lot of equally less enlightened white folk?

So it just ain't easy being us at all...

But everybody is somebody!

And Jesse Jackson got that one right the first time!

(Smile)...

You wrote:

I am Red and Black through and through. I champion issues I believe are important to both, either separately or as a whole. I honor my grandfather and my uncle during the grand entry and in the circle. I allow the drum to enter into my being. When I lived in Minneapolis, I would go to Indian Center and volunteer. I worked in the urban Indian community, giving what skills or talents I had away unselfishly. My loyalties lie where my heart lies that is with my people, Black and Red.

Chuck:

Good medicine!

(BIG smile)...

In order for the Great Peace to survive, there is always the need for peacemakers to extend the covenant chain.

Tuhwi
Chuck:

And something else for me to get my mind around too!

So thanks fo rcaring and sharing...

FYI...

Take care....

Later...

Peace...

:SuN020:
 

chuck

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Aug 9, 2003
13,471
2,160
To one and all who identify themselves as 'black indians'--mixed bloods--indigenous related:

Do consider also being subscribers to the BLACKINDIANS ACTIVIST ALLIANCE message board...

You can find it via the yahoogroups search engine...

FYI...

Take care...

Peace...
 
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