Destee's Thoughts Teaching Our Sons What to Want

OmowaleX

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Destee said:
Sister Riada ... i don't want you to bow out. I'm just presenting this for discussion and consideration. I could be totally wrong, and if so, i want to hear those arguments as well. It's not like i can prove what i'm saying will benefit us collectively, but i think it can.

I'm suggesting, maybe there is more to this than meets the eye.

This discussion is about us loving ourselves, our hair in particular, that which we've been told, is our crown and glory. That which we spend billions of dollars, and hundreds of hours on each year, to chemically alter. Yes, on the surface it might appear to be a trivial thing, yet it manifests itself across the landscape for all to see, from the richest to the poorest of Black Women.

It may mean absolutely nothing, that Mothers virtually teach their daughters that they are not pretty as they are, by chemically changing their hair, soon after birth (we're the only ones that do this). It may be of no consequence at all, that there are no commercials or advertisements with little Black Girls (or Black Adult Women) with their naturally coiled hair, even though we're all born with it. The fact that there are no Black women, in any great number, on television, in the news, or anywhere to be seen ... that represent us (publicly) in our natural beauty, could just be happenstance. This could all simply be coincidence, and mean absolutely nothing, with no adverse effect on us collectively. I'm willing to consider these arguments.

Or it could mean something. I think it means something. I think there is a telling story in this manifestation that we are all witnessing. Walking around with hair blowing in the wind, down to our behinds, like we were born with it. Is this fake? Is this phony? Does that make us fake and phony? Or have we been convinced that it is "just beauty and fashion," with no underlying psychological issues motivating the choices? When most Black Families are struggling to survive, we spend BILLIONS on our hair, to make it look other than what we were born with. I think this means something Sister, more than fashion and beauty. If nothing else, it tells us clearly, that we are not beautiful (as we are) ... which is terrible ... in my opinion, for us to continue putting this on our BEAUTIFUL BLACK DAUGHTERS for any reason, to get a man, or otherwise!

Our loving our own selves may not reap the harvest that i envision, but it has to do some good, more than what is being done now, by hiding our real selves. I'm willing to give on this. Willing to say, okay, it's not the end all and be all solution, to our problems, but to what degree might it help us?

If we could do it, do you think it would hurt us or help us (in any way)?

Are you saying this is not telling information about Black Women?

Are you saying this has nothing to do with how Black Women view themselves and their Daughters?

Are you saying that teaching little Black Girls to love themselves, won't affect how little Black Boys love them?

We don't have to agree Sister, i just want us to begin looking at it objectively, if possible.

:heart:

Destee

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Destee

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Destee said:
Sister Spicy ... this may be true ... but this isn't really about what Brothers want.

It's about what Sisters are doing. We are wearing hair down to our booty, like we were born that way.

I'm suggesting that they will want what we (Mothers / Sisters) give and show them.

Sister Spicy ... i thought of something else kinda cute and applicable.

Again, it's not really about what Brothers (Sons) want.

For example ... our children may want McDonald's every night for dinner, but we take them home to that pot of greens and pan of cornbread. They moan and groan about it, but when they get old ... what do they want? They want somebody who can cook a pot of greens and a pan of cornbread!

Same thing Sister.

They don't know what they want, until we teach them.

That's the kind of power we as Mothers and Sisters have, in the lives of Black Men, and i think we've been under-estimating it.

:heart:

Destee
 

spicybrown

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Destee said:
Sister Spicy ... now you know i love you ... but jes ezaklee who's Momma you call'n a Mammy!??

Gurl ... you know them is some fight'n words! ... but since i love you, i won't shoot you ... :lol:
I guess I'm an oldhead for using terms like that. Must be the southern lingo I picked up from my "pappy" (father). No offense intended, and I sincerely apologize to all who were offended.

But no Sister, we must be very careful how we view our Mothers, and those before us, regarding this and other like situations. See, we're in a very precarious position, as it's easy for us to go left or right, but we must remain balanced. We've been so manipulated by these people, every aspect of our being, including life and death. Considering the hell they had our Ancestors under, there's no telling what one might do or not do. Mothers before us, including our own, most often did what they had to. They did it so successfully, that we are now here, able to carry the torch a little further. Without their doing, we may not have survived. Now is not the time for Monday morning arm chair quarterbacking. We must believe they did what they thought was best. However bad it was, we're here, alive and well, able to see things they didn't see, experience stuff they never could, change things they may not have even been aware of. It is because of them we are here ... and because of us, the choices we make now ... our children can be further along than we are, able to see more, and do better.

I know you meant no real harm Sister ... but i'm on a mission ... and i appreciate you joining me! :wink:

Much Love and Peace.

:heart:

Destee
Nonetheless, I do empathize with those who harbor sentiments such as yours. I guess this is somewhat of an intangible topic for me, as I have no sons to model said behavior for, my daughter and I are natural, and on top of that, my s/o is neutral on the hair-troversy. He embraces all styles (fake, real, long, short, blond, brunette, kinky, straight, and anything in between)... as long as it looks presentable.

Yes, Black mothers, who don't embrace their natural beauty can inadvertently work to their own detriment. Then again, it's like: which of our community's dilemmas do we assail first? Do we look at impacting external forces, or does the problem lie solely within the community? It seems so trivial to me, because I have overcome a plethora of obstacles, and battling over whether or not to wear my natural tresses was the least of my priorities; granted I have no sons. Truth be told, there's only so much a Black mother can do to derail her sons from praising foreign beauty standards over his own. I have seen die-hard Afrocentric mothers literally in tears because their sons brought non-Black women home. There's the media, peer pressure, and "preferences" that fit snug into the equation.

Peace
 

cursed heart

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Riada said:
Destee, I definitely think that it's always better to accept anyone as they are naturally--not try to change them, and if they can't be accepted as they are, just leave them alone if they not hurting anyone. So, I'm certainly with you there about it just being wonderful to be embraced just as we are and just as we were made. Of course, it would do lots of good.

My point is that I wouldn't want to set Black women up for disappointment. I'll bet you that some Black women have actually gone natural just based on the number of Black men who say here on your forum that they want a natural-haired Black woman. Why do I say disappointment? There are many Black women these days who would do just about anything to get a Black man to love them, be with them, and nobody else but them. There are Black women out there right now having sex with Black men who refuse to wear condoms, but in each case, she's thinking that maybe, just maybe he'll be "her man" after he's finished. So going natural would be an easy decision for them to do if there's a reasonable chance that their expectation will be met to get a man of their own. That's why I answered the way I did.

In general, what you've said would be wonderful. Just look at all the money, time, and energy alone that would be saved. I agree that there is too much emotional energy invested in hair and other surface things by Black men and Black women. Too much emphasis is put on the "outside" of themselves versus the "inside."

We are losing at this because we don't have a culture that functions to meet our needs, so we're just using band-aids to make us feel better from moment to moment and day to day. Until we actually build a culture to meet our various needs, it'll just be more of the same.


I most definately agree with you here!
 

Riada

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Destee said:
Sister Riada ... i don't want you to bow out. I'm just presenting this for discussion and consideration. I could be totally wrong, and if so, i want to hear those arguments as well. It's not like i can prove what i'm saying will benefit us collectively, but i think it can.

I'm suggesting, maybe there is more to this than meets the eye.

This discussion is about us loving ourselves, our hair in particular, that which we've been told, is our crown and glory. That which we spend billions of dollars, and hundreds of hours on each year, to chemically alter. Yes, on the surface it might appear to be a trivial thing, yet it manifests itself across the landscape for all to see, from the richest to the poorest of Black Women.

It may mean absolutely nothing, that Mothers virtually teach their daughters that they are not pretty as they are, by chemically changing their hair, soon after birth (we're the only ones that do this). It may be of no consequence at all, that there are no commercials or advertisements with little Black Girls (or Black Adult Women) with their naturally coiled hair, even though we're all born with it. The fact that there are no Black women, in any great number, on television, in the news, or anywhere to be seen ... that represent us (publicly) in our natural beauty, could just be happenstance. This could all simply be coincidence, and mean absolutely nothing, with no adverse effect on us collectively. I'm willing to consider these arguments.

Or it could mean something. I think it means something. I think there is a telling story in this manifestation that we are all witnessing. Walking around with hair blowing in the wind, down to our behinds, like we were born with it. Is this fake? Is this phony? Does that make us fake and phony? Or have we been convinced that it is "just beauty and fashion," with no underlying psychological issues motivating the choices? When most Black Families are struggling to survive, we spend BILLIONS on our hair, to make it look other than what we were born with. I think this means something Sister, more than fashion and beauty. If nothing else, it tells us clearly, that we are not beautiful (as we are) ... which is terrible ... in my opinion, for us to continue putting this on our BEAUTIFUL BLACK DAUGHTERS for any reason, to get a man, or otherwise!

Our loving our own selves may not reap the harvest that i envision, but it has to do some good, more than what is being done now, by hiding our real selves. I'm willing to give on this. Willing to say, okay, it's not the end all and be all solution, to our problems, but to what degree might it help us?

If we could do it, do you think it would hurt us or help us (in any way)?

Are you saying this is not telling information about Black Women?

Are you saying this has nothing to do with how Black Women view themselves and their Daughters?

Are you saying that teaching little Black Girls to love themselves, won't affect how little Black Boys love them?

We don't have to agree Sister, i just want us to begin looking at it objectively, if possible.

:heart:

Destee

Destee, this is just my take on things but it depends on what the actual objective is for promoting natural hair for Black women. The condition that Black folks are in is due to a very multi-faceted problem. Hair, to me, is a relatively small aspect. What about complexion? I think that the aversion to dark skin is one of the absolute worst problems worldwide that we Black folks have if I had to rank them. I agree with Kola Boof and other writers about this phenomenon of how many Black men, worldwide, are mating with white women because they're trying to get rid of the melanin or erase the image of themselves.

Most of this has to do with Black males not having power. I think that many Black males worldwide have made themaybe unconscious decision that if you can't beat them, join them, and in order to more easily join white folks, you need to look more like them or have your children look more like them. Power, the lack of it, not using our power, lack of unity are the bottom line problems for Black people, no matter how I twist and turn the Black plight in this country or look at in it other Black places.

Also, wherever you travel in the world, whereever Black males can get white females or females who don't look typically Black, they are increasingly flocking towards them and these males can be from places where they grew up around Black women wearing natural, nappy hair and only a tiny percentage of the women ever permed their hair. This is why I'm not quite getting your point.

Chemicals are poisonous and trying to bend people into something they're not is something I would never endorse. That is harmful. So yes, I certainly agree it would be wonderful if no chemicals ever touched a Black woman, girl or boy's head (some Black boys and men are get relaxers too like Al Sharpton), but as long as there is such unequal power in the world, I don't think that Black women wearing their hair naturally will improve conditions for Black people. My assumption is that uplifting Black folks is your point for promoting natural hair.

So that's the gist of the way I see it.
 

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