Black Spirituality Religion : Spiritual Battle in Terri's case, Question for Christians

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by TheWitness, Mar 19, 2005.

  1. TheWitness

    TheWitness Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I found this to be thought provoking....
    Now 2 questions
    IF this was YOU, would you want your family to fight?
    And do you think this is a spiritual battle
    (And please, no comments about this being a "white: woman.)I say this becasue God is NOT a respector of persons.
    'LIVE' VERSUS 'EVIL': BEHIND SCENES IN CASE OF SCHIAVO IS DYNAMIC OF A SPIRITUAL WAR

    Behind the scenes in the Schiavo case is a spiritual dynamic that is of course totally ignored by the mainstream press -- which still hovers towards support for Terri's badly misguided husband and a judge who has indicated all but complete spiritual blindness.

    Those are not assessments we like to make, and we won't judge the people themselves, but we will say that they have been at least deceived by the dark side. When we spoke to him recently, Terri's father expressed concern over an actual feeling of evil in the courtroom when motions are filed in this case, causing him to invoke the Archangel Michael. Let us note as we have so often that this is a classic case of how the devil tries to reverse the word "live" into "evil."

    At least one prominent person on the side of removing Terri's tube has been reported to experience strange and radical personality shifts, and another to have a pronounced engagement with the New Age.

    Meanwhile a lawyer who has fought to keep Terri alive, Pat Anderson, a strongly believing Christian, told Spirit Daily that she felt the spiritual resistance of evil and also the help of the Holy Spirit as she battled for more than three years in the case. It has been presided over by a judge who she said has ignored a mountain of evidence that should have given him pause in constantly ruling against Terri's parents, the Schindlers, who have fought so gallantly to keep their daughter -- severely disabled since 1990 -- from a painful death via removal of her feeding tube (all she needs to live).

    Terri herself shows specific attention to a priest who regularly visits and reacts to prayer, witnesses have told us. She has also uttered words such as "mommy" and "help me."

    Relics of Padre Pio and Mother Teresa of Calcutta have found their way into her hospice room, and the Blessed Sacrament is touched to this poor woman who seems to be a "victim soul" in the huge battle over life issues in the U.S.

    Then there is the matter of Clearwater, Florida -- which, as the location of one hospice that Terri stayed in, and also the residence of her "husband," Michael, is interesting because it is also where a famous image of the Blessed Mother seemed to manifest in the reflection on an office building [see archives].

    It was right around the corner where Terri was kept during the last close call, when the tubes were actually removed from Terri before the intervention of Governor Bush -- whose wife is devoted to Our Lady of Guadalupe and who with her husband visited the shrine near Mexico City.

    The Clearwater image uncannily resembles the image of Guadalupe (which is associated with pro-life issues) and was smashed by a disturbed young man just before the Schiavo case first burst into national prominence.

    It was first spotted on December 17, 1996, by a woman customer at what was then the Seminole Finance Corporation Building. As one newspaper noted, the image, two floors high, glowed and shimmered, turning from green to blue, to red, and there was a distinct outline of a head, a hooded robe and most of a torso. Skeptics claimed it was caused by a reflection of the sun's rays bouncing off water left by sprinklers, but that hardly explained how its glow often increased at night -- although [see below] it went dark just before September 11.

    The 1996 time frame is when the dispute between the Schindlers and Michael Schiavo intensified, and when dark suspicions arose concerning Terri's care. In 1998, Michael petitioned the court for removal of her feeding and hydration tubes. His lawyer is described by some as a "yoga guru" attorney with strong New Age tendencies.

    Whether or not it bears relevance, Clearwater is also headquarters for the Church of Scientology -- which teaches "prosperity for the able," with obvious implications. "Many Florida politicians and government officials have an accommodative relationship with Scientology," claims one website, citing alleged attendance at a Scientology anniversary gala of "over 540 dignitaries and guests from throughout the Tampa Bay area" on January 18, 2003. The area is also home to headquarters for the Shriners, if that bears any relevance. The courthouse for the judge in the Schiavo case is right next to the Scientology headquarters.

    Has this brushing up against anti-Catholic had a spiritual effect? And is Clearwater also not clearly a spiritual battleground, pitting traditional Catholics against the move toward euthanasia?

    Here, in the state of hurricanes (or "hurucans," the Indian word for "evil wind"), is where the prayers are needed, and here -- not in the court, not in the state legislature, not even in the U.S. Congress -- is where, in coming days, the real battle will be lost or won.

    Have nothing to do with the evil deeds of darkness,
    but rather reprove them. Ephesians 5:11
     
  2. Radical Faith

    Radical Faith Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The Bottomline

    The bottomline here is the quality of life. If you believe in God and that death is not the end then the decision is clear. From the time we are born we start dying physically. There are worse things than death, such as having a useless body kept alive so it doesn't surrender your soul. This is worse than death it's almost as bad as cryogenics. This is the mind set of the flesh. The flesh want us to live forever and it is finding ways to do so. Sure the incapacitated do have rights. They have the right to die. Just like everyone has the choice to kill themselves, that's a different story though. Let me share something with you all. Most here know may father passed away last December. I am the eldest of his namesake and my son is the last. My father suffered a massive heart attack and was without oxygen for 30 minutes. After 6 minutes without oxygen the brain becomes damaged. When it was all said and done my dad was in a vegetative state with a slim to no change of recovery. Being the person that I am I prayed about it and God helped me understand. See my father fought with alcoholism and drug addiction most of his adult life. My father understood what his problem was he just couldn't stop abusing. So because of this he lost my mom which devastated him. He tried to sober up for a while but the reality of having too much water under the bridge for him and my mom to get back together broke his heart. The last years of his life were spent in unbareable pain and shame. All the while he never stopped abusing. Finally he was so sick he went into the hospital. He made a recovery but relapsed and died. I believe God called my father home and put him out of his misery. God knew he would not be able to stop drinking and doing drugs. Also I had planned on bringing him with me so he could get a fresh start. God knew that our relationship would have been strained because of his addiction. My father is now out of pain and misery. He is free. This is the way Terri Shiavo should be. Free. God will not perform miracles with help from man. We can't help God. We must have faith that God knows what is best for us.


    Peace

    Radical Faith
     
  3. diakonos

    diakonos Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    TheWitness,

    Great discussion topic. I sympathize with both the husband and the parents of this poor woman. From a biblical perspective however, I’m inclined to believe that the husband should have the final say in this matter. When two people marry, they leave their families and cleave to one another (become one flesh).
     
  4. j'hiah

    j'hiah Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    leave it to the husband.
     
  5. karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    I have never understood why so many 'Christians' are fighting so hard to keep this woman alive when they go on and on about how pleasant and wondrous their Afterlife is going to be in comparison to everyone else's. If the next life is all that glorius, why force someone to continue this life incapcitated?
     
  6. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    excellent question
     
  7. PurpleMoons

    PurpleMoons Administrator STAFF

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    No one can defeat death! If it was her time to go, all the Christians and or judges could not stop it. What they are doing now is murder. The are killing a human being by starvation. Just because man thinks he may have a complete understanding of the conditions this women is in, doesn't mean he is correct with his analyzes. When it is her time to leave, she will go! Who are we to say her life is meaningless because she no longer function as we do. There are people with functional capabilities who souls are dark. Do we seek them out and starve them as well?
     
  8. TheWitness

    TheWitness Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Yes, it is murder and every one watching this should be outraged.Despite a congressional vote in her favor this past weekend; Terri Schiavo is not out of the woods yet. She won the vote, but nothing’s really changed. She is still starving. How much longer will it take for this living person to be deemed worthy of a cup of water? I don’t understand how a vote can be rushed, but a meal cannot. Terri hasn't been fed since Friday, March 18th. I wonder how well our congressional representatives, the population reductionists, or men like Judge Greer or Michael Schiavo would hold up without food for four days.

    It might not surprise you to know that a few dozen Democrats voted against saving Terri last Sunday night. Cynthia McKinney was one of them. Yes, McKinney voted in favor of starving Terri Schiavo to death. Go ahead. Keep telling yourselves McKinney is on OUR side. If you can do that, then your head must surely be up your *** Depriving a human being of nutritional sustenance while they are still alive is inhumane. To endorse such a criminal act is no less inhumane. It took her a while, but Cynthia finally showed her true colors. Now we can hopefully put to bed the misguided notion that McKinney is one of the 'good guys". Good guys don't sanction murder. I live in Pennsylvania. Four of our representatives voted to starve Terri, too. I'll remember their names, because what they voted for was torture and murder.

    As it stands now, a woman named Terri Schiavo is being tortured by her husband. We can only speculate as to how she is managing to hold onto any will to live, especially in light of the psychological and emotional torture being inflicted upon her by a person who claims to want to give her “peace”. We are, on the one hand, supposed to believe Michael Schiavo really loves his wife. Love? How many of us choose to starve those we “love”? He wants us to believe that Terri wants to die. Of course, without any written directive from Terri herself, we're all just supposed to take Michael's word on this. And in case we forget, let me remind everybody that Michael is a pro when it comes to pulling the plug, since he apparently also played God with the lives of his own parents. What a guy.

    Schiavo is aggressively pursuing Terri’s execution. He wants us all to believe he’s the "hero" in this whole mess. It’s kind of hard to paint Michael in this light, since he's trying to kill another human being in an overtly barbaric way. Heroes don't end lives - they save them. Schiavo has been assisted thus far by the Florida court system and a mini-minded judge named George Greer, who is now (for all intents and purposes) an accomplice to attempted murder. Greer defied a congressional subpoena last week, thereby ordering the removal of Terri’s feeding tube so that starvation could begin.Wheres Janet Reno when we need her? All Americans should be MORTIFIED about the fact that an American court would give the green light to murder. Yes people, this is America, land of the free, unless of course you happen to be weak and disabled. Gee, where are Johnny Cochran, Alan “Torture” Dershowitz, Jerry Spence and all the rest of the high-power bloodsucking lawyers? Don't they want to spit their poison into this arena?

    There are other issues aside from Terri’s starvation that need to be addressed immediately. I'm talking about torture. You see, Michael Schiavo appears to be declaring all-out war on his wife, employing torture tactics that remind me more of the CIA rather than the actions of a “loving, caring husband.”

    Somebody needs to make Schiavo understand that even a disabled or dying person has the right to see the sun. Death row inmates are allowed this right, yet Terri is not. Why won’t Michael allow natural lighting in Terri’s room? Furthermore, why won't he permit any flowers to be brought in, or “allow” her to listen to music? Have you ever heard of such bullcrap cruelty in your life? She’s got a handful of days left to live if somebody doesn’t start feeding her NOW. If Schiavo knows it’s only a matter of time before he gets his death wish, why is he denying his wife such small comforts as sunlight, family, flowers and music? What kind of monster is Michael Schiavo?

    This guy is reprehensible. He doesn’t “allow” Terri to have her teeth brushed. What is the purpose of this? Is this love? Due to the lack of dental care being enforced by her “loving” executioner, Terri has lost several teeth. Why are her health care providers even allowing this? Is it a crime to brush Terry's teeth? How do we know she is being bathed? No wonder her parents are fighting so hard for her life. They are watching their daughter being tortured to death. Would any one of us stand by silently and allow our own loved ones to be abused like this?

    Isn’t it bad enough that Michael Schiavo gets off playing God with human lives? Has he ever - for once - considered that human beings have the right to live - and die - with dignity? Schiavo has stripped his wife of her dignity - and for this alone, he should be publicly condemned. Does Michael even care that sunlight is beneficial for growth and healing, even in plants? Does he care that sunlight uplifts the human spirit? Sunlight makes us smile and makes the world seem brighter. Sunshine often symbolizes hope. Yet, “Michael the Executioner” has prohibited any natural light in Terri's room. She doesn't get to see the sun or feel its warmth because he has ordered her shades to remain drawn at all times. Is this in her best interest? Is this “love”? I hope nobody's leaving him alone in the room with her.

    And then there’s the music. The sound of music can be very therapeutic. Yet, Terri is not allowed to hear music because her executioner forbids it. Go ahead; tell me something isn’t wrong with this guy. Why would a husband who purports to “love” his wife EVER forbid such a thing? Is he a vindictive psychopath? It’s been documented that Michael Schiavo has considered his wife “dead” for years now. Is this torture being done to reinforce the “death” theme so Terri internalizes it? It would seem that Schiavo is doing everything humanly possible not only to KILL his wife, but to systematically reduce her to a “persistent vegetative” state in every possible way: physically, psychologically and emotionally. What kind of "love" is this that seeks to dissolve a person's dignity, crush their spirit, demolish their soul and ultimately kill their body?

    It's hard to understand what kind of person you have to be to treat another with such unjustifiable viciousness and inhumanity. It's hard enough bending my brain around the fact that he’s starving her to death without batting an eye. It’s impossible for me to comprehend restriction of sunlight, music, family, or even a simple flower. Terri is being forced to exist as though she’s already dead. How long has this poor woman been denied even limited amounts of time outside? How many seasons have passed with Terri Schiavo left to stagnate in solitary confinement upon orders from her “executioner”? When was the last time she took a breath of air that didn't first filter through a dirty vent?

    For some reason, Terri is being denied exposure to anything that even remotely symbolizes life. I don't know about you, but this seems like punishment to me. I’m wondering what it is that drives a man like Michael Schiavo to torture his wife. Hasn’t she been through enough hell already?

    By now, it's crystal clear that this man wants his wife dead. He publicly announces this in no uncertain terms. He tells the press he is “outraged” that Congress would dare to intervene in his private matters. Excuse me, Michael. You're torturing and killing your wife. Privately or otherwise, those are still officially considered crimes in this country by most Americans (excluding psychopaths like Schiavo, judges like Greer, and OBVIOUSLY all of our illustrious congressional representatives who voted in favor of allowing Terri’s death march to proceed.)

    Worse, ask yourself why a man who "loves" his wife would not allow her to receive swallowing therapy all these years. Why has Terri been denied treatments that could improve her condition; and ultimately, the quality of her life? Isn't this, at the very least, negligence? What happened to “do no further harm?” What if this had happened to a child? Would caregivers have acted differently and reported Michael Schiavo? Why has this man fought tooth and nail for her death rather than using this same zeal to fight for her life? Why would a husband who "loves" his wife not do everything in his power to ensure that she is comfortable, clean, and getting the best possible treatment to enable even a partial recovery? Folks, this is not a “right-to-die” issue. This is an attempted murder issue. This is a torture issue.

    Maybe Michael has another reason for not pursuing available avenues that might lead to partial recovery. The only person who has expressed any “alleged” death wish in this situation is the executioner himself, who has been heard to ask questions like, "Is she dead yet?" Don't hold back, Michael. Tell us how you really feel. You disgust me at a cellular level.

    This past weekend, some good people traveled across the country to fight for Terri’s life. Some, like Bo Gritz, were arrested for trying to bring her a drink of water. It’s a crime to put an ice chip in this woman’s mouth, even now, after our legislators voted in her favor. In spite of this vote, Terry is still starving. Why hasn’t a tube been reinserted? Why hasn’t President Bush publicly DEMANDED that this woman be given sustenance? Why must Terri wait for some new judge's permission before she can eat? I’m sure he's been stuffing his gut every day. Does Cynthia McKinney ever think about the fact that Michael Schiavo would rather dehydrate and kill his wife rather than allow an ice chip to melt in her mouth? Terri won the vote. Great. Now, when are they going to FEED her? Does the urgency of this situation hit you as hard as it hits me?

    I would say Schiavo's death march is probably all about money, but I'm troubled by this nagging sense that Michael has something to hide. If Terry were allowed to go home with her parents and be provided treatment that could potentially improve her condition, she might eventually start talking about what actually happened to her 15 years ago. Does this possibility make Michael Schiavo nervous? Has it haunted him for the last 15 years? Think about it. Is it such a stretch of the imagination that maybe - just maybe - this has been a murder-in-progress from day one?

    On one hand, we have Michael Schiavo, the executioner. On the other, we have government and the courts. Oh boy. I'd like to say the government and judiciary value human life, but that would be a lie - a big lie. I won’t even bother saying Michael Schiavo values human life, because we can all see what this dirt bag is about. There is a third party to this situation: the American People. It is the good people of this nation that forced mainstream media attention to this story, who forced Congress to do something meaningful and timely for a change, and whose hearts reached out to Terri Schiavo.

    So, it is to the people of America I speak now: The only way we’re going to save Terri Schiavo is through the compelling force of our collective public outrage.

    And while we all sit waiting for judicial and political puppets to crap or get off the pot, this tortured woman in Florida is steadily dying a million deaths every day in some stale nursing home tomb-room, forced to face her executioner as she starves. Does he eat in front of her, too? Is Michael Schiavo’s definition of “peace via starvation” in the same vein as Bush’s “peace via war”? Hey, it’s that old “liberation through death” thing again. Michael has missed his calling. He’d be better served working as a neo-con. They're always looking for a few good men, right?

    I daresay we'll be seeing somebody get what they've been wishing for if this insanity continues even a few more days. It's preposterous to think that Terri Schiavo would rather starve to death than receive food, water, and therapy that could make her better. The human survival instinct is very strong. Obviously, despite her condition, Terri's will to live has carried her this far. It’s interesting to note that not one person has been able to prove that Terri is unable to THINK, UNDERSTAND, or FEEL. Michael Schiavo just wants us all - including Terry herself - to believe she can’t. Is this where we’re headed, America? Are we to become a nation that snuffs out the weak, mentally-limited, elderly and disabled? Where do we draw the line? Heck, the Pope can do little more than Terri Shiavo at this point. Do they plan to knock him off, too?

    Right now, Terri Schiavo exists in that twilight space between life and death. She is hanging on so far, but someone needs to FEED her and then get her AWAY from this monster. She needs a loving, nurturing environment. She needs to go home. The reality is that Terri has not been in a persistent, vegetative state, contrary to what Michael Schiavo and his “entourage” would have us all believe. She has not been dependent upon life-support equipment to keep her alive. Caregivers have provided sworn testimony confirming that Terri is capable of swallowing and limited speech. She is able to learn new skills. All she requires is a feeding tube for nourishment. Hopefully, she will not even require this at some point in the future if the proper care is provided. Photos of Terri show us a wide-eyed, expressive, communicative human being who responds to love, attention, and interaction with others. Who are we to number the days of this woman? It doesn't take a genius to see that even a "loving" husband knows a dead wife tells no tales.
     
  9. TheWitness

    TheWitness Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Let me help you understand why Christians, real ones anyway are fighting so hard.
    should we be looking at feeding a woman who can't feed herself?

    Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
    Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

    With all the national rancor, debate, power struggle, and media fanfare, only one thing matters to Jesus:
    Did you feed her and give her drink?

    Whatever you do to the least of these, you have done to me.

    And while Im ranting over this.............everyone and their mother is using this situation for political purposes.
    Where is the "religious right"?
    How come the Pat Robertsons, the Creflo Dollars,the Jerry Falwells, The Paul Crouches, The Hal Lindseys, the Chuck Smiths, the TD Jakes,are not at the hospital where Terri is, or in the courtrooms where this power struggle is taking place?
    most are filthy rich and even have their own aircraft.
    Too busy with their "empires" and giving and taking political bribes.
    And these are the ones who have set themselves up as Christian leaders?
    But of course, not a one of them is a Christian, nor are they leaders except as leaders of the lost, they are the Priests of Baal, the modern day Pharisees.
    And Yes, the result of this is Federal power exerted over states rights.
    But everyone involved is CORRUPT.
    The judges, the politicians, the husband of Terri, the media, the attorneys, are ALL corrupt.
    And whatever evils come from the political wrangling, this is of God, because America is under judgement and America is reaping what she sowed.God help us all........................
     
  10. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    "Yes it is murder and everyone watching should be outraged" first of all who are you speaking for? your fellow christians? Personally I could care less if white folks wanna put each other to sleep.

    If this is murder why aren't any charges being brought agains the parties? just a question
     
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