Black People : Something to think about...

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by DreamFunk, Jun 14, 2004.

  1. DreamFunk

    DreamFunk Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    "Black Pride"....

    ....I've already never gave a hoot about "white", but I'm also growing to not give a hoot about "black"....labels will never truly change what one was, is, will, or can be; but because of others, they can undeservingly restrict or promote.....therefore, I have no problem with not refering to myself as "black".

    ....but aren't I supposed to be "proud to be black"...????....why..???....if I can't find joy in anything other than my blackness, then I am one sad, pathetic, and lost individual....and if I can't break away from something such as labels that were put onto me by my "oppressors", then I'm one extremely fearful individual...."black" people always talk about freedom, but as long as we refer to ourselves as being what those who we seek to become free from defined us by, we can never be free.....true freedom is not about simply going where you want, or doing what you want to do, but it is also about having no fear; and dependence = fear.

    To be free is not merely to do what you like, or to break away from outward circumstances which bind you, but to understand the whole problem of dependence. Do you know what dependence is? You depend on your parent, don't you? You depend on your teachers, you depend on the cook, on the postman, on the man who brings you milk, and so on. That kind of dependence one can understand fairly easily. But there is a far deeper kind of dependence which one must understand before one can be free: the dependence on another for one's happiness. Do you know what it means to depend on somebody for your happiness? It is not the mere physical dependence on another which is so binding, but the inward, psychological dependence from which you derive so-called happiness; for when you depend on somebody in that way, you become a slave.
    ~ Jiddu Krishnamurti

    ....as long as we refer to ourselves as, and 'find joy'/'take pride' in what those who oppressed us defined us as, we will forever be dependent on those oppressors, thus never being free from them....this is something that we must at least understand.

    ....but for those who are content with the present situation of themselves and all those around them (directly or indirectly), then all of this is irrelevant.
    .
     
  2. Therious

    Therious Banned MEMBER

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    lets see, im black to the bone, and black and proud. if your not black then what are you? that is the most rediculous thing ive ever heard. our opressors labeled us not human, we called our selves black. what your writting is a white suppremecy success story...take away the pride of the black slave and the rest of the enslavement will be easy.

    you asked; why be proud to be black?

    because people tried to kill our ancestors who were proud, not to mention the fact that we are great!....it sounds like ur in fear of representing your blackness

    so i say stay black til u die. represent black to the fullest..

    peace on the planet
     
  3. DreamFunk

    DreamFunk Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    ...you are a prime example of everything that I wrote....you didn't grasp a thing I said....the European man told you that you're "black", and you are so dependent on him that it just baffles your mind to see it any other way....the thought of yourself not being referred to as "black" is probably a very dreadful one to you, correct..???...does that thought produce fear of uncertainty in your heart...???



    ...no, you are "black" because "white" Europeans told you that you were....or are you saying that native Africans referred to themselves as "black" before their contacts with Europeans..???



    ....hmm, and how might that be...???....I believe that this European social construct of "black"/"white" needs to be done away with....you on the other had seek to perpetuate, and even take pride in their system....if anyone is a white supremacy success story it is yourself....what good to humanity has this social construct of "black"/white" done...???....absolutely none, but it has done much harm......with that being said, why bask it...???



    ...pride pride pride...there is nothing good about pride as this...this type of "pride" that you speak of is nothing more than tones of positive reinforcement...depending on the situation, I see the boasting of having "pride" as nothing but a ploy to hide insecurities.

    ...and I think it's foolish to take pride in being "white" or "black"....you have dirt poor and illiterate rednecks in Mississippi that think they're better than any AfroAmerican just because they're "white"....you have uneducated people speaking of "white achievements" and how their "white" ancestry makes them better than all others, when they themselves have done absolutely nothing for society (except for sit on their butts and eat potato-chips)....now how can I call out the ignorance of those people when I too am upholding this social construct..??..you can't destroy "whiteness" unless "blackness" falls with it.

    ...and speaking of our ancestors, they did what they had to do just in order to survive....our present situation compares in no way to what they went through; and accordingly, we must move on, or forever be stagnant.



    ...would you feel totally lost without your blackness...???
    .
     
  4. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Greetings DreamFunk...good thread. I had to read it several times to grasp the message before I responded. I also read your exchange with Brother Therious and think I understand the point you are making here.

    Let's see...I believe that I understand the argument against embracing a word to describe who one is as a member of a group, especially if that word was assigned to that group by the (perceived) power and authority of another group. Are you suggesting that we should reject the term "black" for the same reasons we rejected the name "negro"?

    If what we call ourselves gives credence to either a dependent state of mind versus and independent state, then what terminology do you suggest WE use to describe who we are as a nation of people, whose national origin is rooted in the African Continent? Also, how do you (or is it even necessary to) make the distinction between US and THEM who may also be "from" Africa, but don't look like US? Hopefully I am clear in framing my question and haven't confused you. :)

    Peace,
    Queenie :spinstar:
     
  5. AUM

    AUM Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Egypt (a misguided Greek name) was originally called KEMET which literally means "land of the BLACKS" by its ancient BLACK inhabitants.

    http://search.msn.com/pass/results....H&v=1&&q=Kemet+land+of+the+blacks&cp=1252&X=1


    No, BLACKness swallows whiteness. Next time you have on a white tee shirt, go into the bathroom and turn off the lights and try to "see" if you can "see" it. Our ancient BLACK ancestors had EXTENSIVE knowledge of BLACKness and it's importance to every part of life. I feel your need to want to make a change, just do a little more study and research. I recommend going to http://www.blackconsciousness.com to get you started. I also want to invite you to Destee's own MELANIN discussions which will give you a reason to be proud of your own BLACKness. http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21411 HTP.

    "Om"
     
  6. Kannte

    Kannte Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You are not Entirely correct

    DreamFunk,

    Truthfully and honestly, to some degree you are correct in your post; to some degree I agree with you.

    You are obviously correct that the, white man's social construct of "black"/"white" needs to be done away with. In fact all our leaders, scholars worked to that end. And some whites.

    However, white man's black/white/racist, white supremacist power dynamic, IS THE WHITE MAN'S BURDEN. So your are correct in a sense that, we people of color should not carry around the white man's burden and problem of seeing everything in color. In a sense it is white people who are the "COLORED" people because THEY see everything in "color," and not just plain old human. But they are trying and learning.

    Before the white man invented the black/white racist/white supremacist dynamic, our people in African did not define ourselves as JUST a "color." Or the Native America people did not define themselves as JUST a "color." We defined ourselves by the definition of something along the lines of "HUMAN;" a UNIVERSAL STANDARD OF HUMAN or human being. And even today there are our people in Africa who don't take the white man's definition of "color" as profound as we African Americans. And to the degree we did define ourselves in terms of color, it was in UNIVERSALLY HUMAN terms, not sub-human.

    In fact, white people themselves did not always see black folk through the eye's of color. Yes, there were some going back to Greece who were racist. But in ancient times if a black person came among whites, they would look at them as strange, as we looked at them as strange when they came to Africa or the Native American looked at them as strange, but after the strangeness was over-come, we saw just another human being in different color.

    It was the JUSTIFICATION for SLAVERY that African and Blackness was DEFINED as SUB-HUMAN as a justification of the whole cruelty of the slavery system, that the definition of color became ultimate not only among the leadership of whites but of the masses also.

    Ok, now where your reason goes off is trying to just see all people as just "human" and not a see "color" or not define ourselves or anyone else in terms of color but as just a human being and the "content of their character," as MLK said.

    To some degree there is nothing wrong with trying to see like that. But that is a "ideal," a "idealized" way of seeing things.

    The the color dynamic of white/black is a POWER dynamic and as you say, we will not get rid of whiteness until we get rid of blackness IS true if said in the opposite, it is the white man who must get rid of the "whiteness" and then we will get rid of our blackness and just see HUMAN.

    Since it is the WHITE MAN'S BURDEN that HE created and made for himself, than it is he, himself who must ERASE the color dynamic, not us.

    We have NOT yet evolved to a society of Equality, of Equal Opportunity for all. We just have some tokens that are put up as bait and a carrot that we have arrived and there is no more racism in white people. But by your own example that you gave white racism/supremacy still exist. And is now use by the evil rulers to DIVIDE and conquer, the masses as a control device.

    So as long as we as black and African American and people of color of the world are not in positions of ECONOMIC INDEPENDENCE and POWER where we can CONTROL our own economic destiny and have our own institutions of service where we can RE-DEFINE ourselves BUT NOT IN WORDS, BUT INSTITUTIONS of service and power, then we must be aware that those in POWER seek to DESTROY us and commit genocide against us, even while some of us are given token position of wealth and influence, and we are let into their jobs and communities to live, the EVIL RACIST IN POWER seek to kill us all, in ways that we know not.

    There is a song, called, "Color Me Human." There's nothing wrong with trying to not to "define" oneself or others in terms of color and just see human. In fact by all means DO SO but in the BACK OF YOUR MIND, stay armed, be on guard, for the racist that you don't see may just be the one who does you in because you only see human, and can't perceive the evil demon of the racist.

    The last stage, the last strong hold of racism, white supremacy is the COLLECTIVE UN-conscious of whites, that has not been completely purged as yet; beware.

    If you check my post you will find links to the works of Dr. Marimba Ani and Dr. Frances Welsing, if you have not do so, find my links and read some of their works that can be found at the links.

    In regard to "something to think about," the idea and concept you post is not new, its been around, and we AA's who are awake and aware have thought about it.

    Beware.
     
  7. Therious

    Therious Banned MEMBER

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    DREAM FUNK.


    OK LETS ALL HOLD HANDS AND SING COOMBAYA (I KNOW I SPELLED THAT WRONG)
    LOOK ILL TRY TO KEEP THIS BRIEF SINCE THE PREVIOUS POSTER SaID MUCH OF WHAT I WAs GOING TO SAY.

    NO IM NOT DEPENDENT ON WHITE PEOPLE(besides my 9 to 5. AND THE WHITE MAN DID NOT TELL ME IM BLACK. BLACK IS ANOTHER WORD FOR AFRIKAN, AKEBULAN, EVEN THE WORD HUMAN SOME ARGUE LITERALLY MEANS BLACK OR COLORED MAN. HUE=COLOR MAN=MAN , =HUMAN-AFRIKAN-MAN KIND=NON AFRIKAN

    YO ASKED THE THOUGHT OF BEING REFERRED TO AS BLACK IS PROBABLY DREADFUL TO ME?



    NO ITS THE OPPOSITE. BLACK IS BEUTIFUL AND THE MOST POWERFUL COLOR/SUBSTANCE IN THE UNIVERSE.

    OIL IS BLACK, THE SUN IS BLACK, THE EARTH IS BLACK, SPACE IS BLACK, BLACK HOLES .....NEED I SAY MORE

    PRIDE IS LIKE CONFIDENCE, IS WILLING TO GO ALL OUT AND LET NOTHING DEFEAT YOU. OF COURSE IT CAN BE DANGEROUS IF USED INCORECTLY.

    DREAM FUNK YOU ASKED: WOULD I FEEL LOST WITHOUT MY BLACKNESS?

    IF I WAS NOT BLACK I WOULDN'T BE ME! I WOULDN'T FEEL LOST I WOULD BE LOST, JUST ASK YA BOY MIKE JACKSON LOL

    DREAM FUNK.....IT SEEMS YOU HAVE MANY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS. MORE RESEARCH SHOULD HELP YOU.

    PEACE ON THE PLANET
     
  8. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Poor Michael, I read somewhere that assimilated thinking can lead to insanity.

    What would the world look like without the color distinctions? Will people's eyes become insensitive to the different shades of color?

    Brother Kannte, I really enjoyed reading your response. You made some excellent points but I have a question for you.

    Even WHEN more Black people are in positions of power, where we can control our own economic destiny, do you think that the color paradigm created by europeans will be eliminated? The reason I'm asking is because it would seem that in order for Black people not to REPEAT the part of our history where we were fooled and bamboozled for so many years, it would be imperative (I would think) for us to remember from whence we came so as not to ever find ourselves there again. To not forget means to remember those involved and be able to recognize them again. So "color" and its many variations, particularly one (white) must remain an issue for Black people, don't you think?

    Queenie :spinstar:
     
  9. daroc

    daroc Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    i have something that i want to add on the original history of the word blk and its use... will return with it later
     
  10. Kannte

    Kannte Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Peace, Queenie:

    The reason I put economics in the reply is because people of color through out the world, whites, Asians, etc. look down on black/African as inferior, and undesirable to a large degree because of economics and technology.

    The caucasian, has built a renowned civilization and world of power and technology. It has been said that in the Book where it says, "Let us give them dominion over the fowl of the air, fish of the sea and every creeping thing that crawls," is referring to black people GIVING, permission to whites to build a world. It wasn't taken it was GIVEN, for a reason and purpose. But that's another story, but I use that as an analogy of the greatness of the caucasian, in the eyes of the rest of the world, compared to how the people of the world view Africans/black people.

    So we have to REVERSE the color paradigm, that world view of inferiority with great achievements in civilization and technology. It is not enough to dwell on our contribution in science, mathematics, medicine, and our great civilizations of the past, while whites where in the caves and hill sides of Europe on all fours like a beast. Its like the saying, what have you done for me lately? So when we can offer the world $100,000 jobs, in black America or Africa, to the people of the world as well as our self and transmit pictures and movies that extol our greatness, and LEAD the world in TECHNOLOGY we will begin to change the world's perception of us as a people of worth, and thus change the color paradigm.

    But IMO there is greatest, unlike any other in the history of humanity, in the SOULS of the African American to lead the world in solving the greatest problems that confront humanity. If we would unite our minds and money on a commons base. Our four hundred (400) years of slavery has fashioned and prepared us to lead the world in technology spirituality and physically.
    Indeed I agree with you that color will remain a issue for Black people of the world until we reverse the perception of inferiority and worthless by our collective accomplishment and achievements.

    Thank you for your question.
     
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