Black Spirituality Religion : Some people are not interested in spiritual knowledge!

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by dattaswami1, Jan 10, 2008.

  1. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Some people are not interested in spiritual knowledge!

    A) Spiritual Knowledge is meant for the people who are aspiring for God, who want God’s grace, who have recognized God and find more value than the world, for those people only we are talking. We are not talking about the people who have satisfied with the world let them be satisfied. For example somebody studying and he says that just pass is sufficient, for me pass mark is sufficient, let me enjoy. If that is his attitude what we can do? IF some body says I will under go all problems and I want to get first class, I want to get distinction; he will undergo lot of trouble and will get the result. Enjoyment of world is there, and if that is your aim nothing can be done.

    Those who recognized GOD, the value of God and eternality of God and eternal fruit of the God, they will only be interested in asking; What is the way to please the God, how to get the grace of God, only when such questions have started, we have started to ask the spiritual knowledge. The fundamental and the basic stage in the spiritual knowledge is that people having recognized God and have given high value to God, what is the path, where is the God, how to please the God, how to get liberation from the world, only when such things are there we are showing the path. Suppose you are satisfied with world, and experience of world itself is highest for you, the whole spiritual knowledge will not open at all! Suppose you want to become a district collector, then you are asking what is the way, then I say you have to study IAS course ( a course for obtaining a prestigious administrative post in India), you have to study so many hours, so many books.

    If you have that aim, we are telling you the path. If you say that I am not bother about this, and say that if I become a peon or attender or coolie, it is beautiful and wonderful I am going to enjoy; for such attitude then there is no question of IAS post. The gate of the spiritual knowledge is closed to such people. Who feel that world is wonderful, who feel that the worldly experience is wonderful, certainly gate is closed for such people. Those people who think that this worldly pleasures are not eternal; they are momentary, they are illusory; for such people only we are
    started the preaching of spiritual knowledge.

    Such spiritual knowledge will become irrelevant to such people. We want God we want liberation from the world, what is the path? Then only the gate of spiritual knowledge is open. If one say that I do not want God, I am satisfied with the world, the gate of spiritual knowledge itself is closed. So there is no question of discussing about him. You want to reach a goal and you are asking the path then only discussions starts. You do not want the goal, you feel that wherever you stay is the highest for you; and you are getting highest enjoyment etc OK. ; then gate is closed. The spiritual knowledge becomes irrelevant for such people.
     
  2. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    In the world how one should behave? If one cheats us, what shall we do?

    In the world how one should behave? If one cheats us, what shall we do?


    If you keep silent about that, there are two possibilities; you might have cheated him in the previous birth and he might have cheated you again in counter now, the file is closed. Now God will not revenge on him. So you should also keep silent, since the file is closed; it is only a counter action. That is one possibility. Or it may be he is doing the action, then if you counter act your counteracting will be very less, you keep silent and leave to God. Revenge is Mine. God will counter act million times more effectively, so your patience is the real characteristic of intellectual person there. One should be patient and leave to God pray God Oh God , it is your decision, I am cheated by him like this. I know you will give the judgment.

    If I have already cheated him in the previous birth this may be the counter action, the judge will not give again any punishment to him. That is why when some body harms us no action takes on him, you do not seen any action. If it is counter action how can you see the action, in that case the file is closed. If you take action for counter action, then again some counter action is to be given to you. Again the chain is generated, a closed file is re-opened. Suppose it is action, it’s not counter action, if action is done and counter action is not taken, whose administration will get bad name, He is more worried than you. You are worried about the counter action, but more than you He is worried, because in His administration some injustice is happening will He tolerate? Even if you tolerate he will not tolerate, why He will not tolerate, because He want to transform the soul through punishment.

    Thus punishment is also not for revenge. God want to transform the soul continuously so definitely there will be punishment. So it for Him to decide just keep silent. And it is not counter action and really action, then definitely you will see the counter action with your eyes, several times, million times. But, if you have taken counter action then it may be again a counter action on counter action, then again you will have to receive counter action from God. Suppose in the action you leave to God He will give the proper punishment, He knows when to give how to give. Just leave to Him. His administration is very important it will never get any blame. He is more worried, He is omnipotent He is capable of punishing the people, He is capable of uplifting His administration, why should you bother, you keep silent, leave to God.
     
  3. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    ‘God cannot help the undeserving’- Why it is so?

    ‘God cannot help the undeserving’- Why it is so?

    What is the meaning of help? Help means to liberate him from the sins. How He will liberate from sins, by transferring into Him and suffering. Now for such thing the devotee must be a deserving devotee. Deserving in the sense he should not aspire that. He should not aspire for the transfer of his sins to God. And God transfers the sins secretly without his knowledge, if he comes to know this he will deny it. That itself is the deservingness. If some body serves God and wants that his sins should be transferred to God and he must get some protection from God then he is not deserving. Deserving in exact sense means he who does not aspire any help from God, such person is a really deserving person. He does not aspire that itself brings the deservingness.

    He serves without any aspiration of fruit in return from God, that is called as deserving. God certainly helps him. It means he transfer his sins on to Him and will relieve him from all the sins, because he is the most deserving. That is the actual meaning of ‘deserving’. You should not aspire any help from God, in return for your service, because you have done the service by yourself not according to the instruction or expectation from God. In that case you are not going to expect any help from God and still you serve, then you are deserving and God is going to help certainly. He is pleased. Jesus did the mission of God by sacrificing His life by undergoing the crucifixition, He did not expect any thing from God He did it for the sake of God to fulfil His mission He did it. So He was helped He made to sit on His right on the throne. Deserving means he who does not aspire any help of GOD at any way at any time, is deserving.
     
  4. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    What is that God in human form expect from His top most devotees?

    What is that God in human form expect from His top most devotees?


    He doesn’t expect anything. Only we have to decide. If you do something according to the expectation of God, then we will aspire for some result. Oh I have done according to Your expectation; then what is the fruit for this. Such idea comes. Suppose you do something without any expectation from God by yourself you do something; then you cannot expect. If you expect something God will say did I ask to do this? I never asked to do this. Suppose you have done by yourself something, you have participated in the mission by your self, you have done some service without the expectation of God then you cannot ask God for some result.

    Suppose God expects you to participate in the service and you have participated, then there is a chance of your asking God for some result. You expected something from me, I fulfilled it; then protect me do something to me that tendency there is atleast a chance for asking. So one should participate in the mission of God without any expectation from God. He does not bother about the expectation of the God, he should do by himself. When he does by himself, never in his mind he will get any aspiration or result from God. That is the best process.
     
  5. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Q) Lord in human form will not allow all people to come to Him, what is the meaning o

    Lord in human form will not allow all people to come to Him, what is the meaning of that?


    Generally incarnation of God is not interested in masses. Generally people are in wrong route only. They want to exploit God for their personal solution. They are not coming to learn the real spiritual knowledge and serve God without any aspiration.

    Like that no body comes to God. If the human incarnation encourage that wrong route so that several people come to Him then he must not be human incarnation because God in human form does not found of fame masses. He is not found of fame. God is really in that human body, He has already enjoyed lot fame. Will he found of masses and fame? No. He wants to guide the correct people in the correct path. For that purpose He comes not just to attract, get the fame. If such effort is done surely he is not God. He is only a soul is because the soul will always found of fame. He has not tasted the fame already. But God has tasted enough fame. So, any action of God will not be towards the fame. His action will be only to guide correctly the people in the correct path. When His concentration is like that generally masses will not be around Him. Rama and Krishna were not mass personality, also Sankara. Sankara was never drew masses, He was only debating with scholars.

    So it is not a question of mass attraction, it is question of leading the people in true path. When He concentrates in leading the people in true path generally people will not like Him. Generally there will not be masses generally there will not be fame. But God is not perturbed. Because He has enough fame, in fact He was bored with the fame. So His tendency will not be towards fame and attraction of mass, His tendency will be always only to give the correct guidance. So in that case generally, the real incarnation of God, He will not be after fame. So that is why the incarnation of Datta means Guru Datta, Guru means preacher. Preacher always sticks to the truth. If He sticks to the truth the people will be less. He does not bother Him because He already God He is not found of fame, He is not politician who draw or attract the masses. So that is what it means.
     
  6. 1poetsought

    1poetsought Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    dattaswami1

    May the blessing of God, be upon you.
     
  7. thePreacher

    thePreacher Banned MEMBER

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    If you are a parent, you will understand perfectly what I am about to say.

    Our kids do not always turn out as we would like. Some end up being nicer than others. One or more of them might even turn out to be a real pain in the posterior.

    But, a loving parent never gives up on his kids, not even the bad apples. As a matter of fact, it is not uncommon for a loving parent to end up spending more time working on the bad apple simply because it is the bad apple who needs more work.

    God is Love and Love is God. Being Love, God doesn't divide mankind into Chosen People and Hated Esaus. That sort of thinking is not of God, but rather reflects the thinking of the imperfect men who wrote our various holy books.

    I figure you are probably like me. I figure there was probably a time when even you were not interested in spiritual knowledge -- nor would recognize it if it walked up and bit you. But, the Master stays after us bad apples any way, keeps sending in hard heads such as I have become of late who don't know better than to not cast their pearls before swine.

    And, every now and then, one of those we thought were swine turns out to be a Malcolm X disguised as a Malcolm Little, or a Paul disguised as a Saul.

    Consider the example of the biblical Jesus, who preferred to hang out with sinners and publicans --- because it is the sick people who need a physician [Matt. 9:10-13].
     
  8. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Real Liberation & Salvation

    This physical world, which consists of the inert objects like Sun, Moon, Stars
    Air, Earth etc., is not the world, which is binding you and this is not
    The world from which you have to attain the liberation or salvation
    If you get salvation from this physical world it is called the death

    Death is not the salvation since even after death you are bound by the bonds
    The bonds are not with the physical world but they are with your family members
    It is this family that constitutes your entire world from which you must be salvated

    The physical world is real and it is unreal for the creator only and not for you
    You are a part and parcel of this world and if you say that this world is unreal
    You too become unreal, your unreal world is your own family, which is created
    By yourself only and why this is unreal?

    If you analyse, these bonds did not exist
    Before this birth and do not exist after this birth and hence are not existing
    During this birth also, Sankara told that temporary is always unreal
    Therefore, Gita emphasizes for the detachment from these worldly bonds

    Jesus goes one step further and advises you even to hate these family bonds
    This is surprising but if you analyse, I should say, He is absolutely correct
    If you analyse deeply, these family members deserve your hatred and not love
    The reason is that these family members were very vehement enemies to you
    In the previous birth you stole their hard earned property and fought with them
    Now they have come to collect their wealth from you along with the
    Compound interest, they are in the form of wife and children and you are bound

    To pay them according to the force of Karma Chakra i.e., associated with Kala Chakra
    Payment of loans is Karma Chakra and payment in this birth is Kala Chakra
    The same is said “Runanubandha Rupena Pasu Patni Sutalayaah”
    The three strongest bonds are with money, wife and children and these three
    Are called as “Eeshanaas”, which are the stainless steel chains, which never
    Corrode, the secret in the force of these three bonds is only the force of Karma
    The Karma is the payment of the loans with interest and for that you have to earn
    Therefore, you are forced by Karma to earn the money and that is the spontaneous
    Attraction to the money, the Karma is dragging you to earn the money so that
    You can pay to your enemies who are surrounding you for the collection of loans

    Thus these three bonds are inter related and amalgamated by the force of Karma
    These enemies are in the mask of friendship and love with you and you do not
    Remember your previous birth, which is again due to the force of karma only
    If you remember the previous birth and that enmity you will not repay the loan
    Therefore, by the force of Karma Chakra only you do not remember previous birth
    These enemies can collect their money only under the mask of love and friendship

    These enemies are collecting their money in the form of work and also money
    The mother repays the loan by doing work like bathing and clothing the children
    Such sacrifice of work by the mother is coming under Karma Sanyasa
    The father repays the money by giving his hard earned property to the children
    And this repayment of direct wealth comes under Karma Phala Tyaga.

    But these enemies are not satisfied with simple repayment of their loans
    If a thief steals your money and if you catch him will you leave him
    Just by taking your money? You will torture him and then only leave
    Similarly, you have stolen their property and you tortured them
    Therefore, they have caught the thief in this birth and collect their money
    Apart from that they will torture you by dragging you down from the Lord

    If you progress in your spiritual path and reach and please the Lord
    You are saved permanently and attain eternal happiness here and there
    Now these enemies obstruct your spiritual path and drag you back
    From that Eternal divine benefit and due to that you will fall in this world-cycle
    In this cycle, which is the permanent hell, you are tortured forever
    By this, their vengeance is subsided and they stand around you even
    In your last minutes so that you will be attracted by them then also

    And you will not remember the Lord even in the last minute
    This is the reason why all your family members reach you even before your death
    They reach you when they hear that you are seriously ill, they are very alert
    But you fool! You are not alert about them and remember them only even on the
    Death bed! Is your this world not really unreal? You analyse the fact

    I say this family world is the most unreal world because these bonds are not only
    Unreal according to the analysis of Sankara, but also they are the bonds
    Of enmity and so must be hated according to the Holy Jesus
    You are thinking the enemy as your friend! How unreal is this bond?
    First you come out of this unreal world created by you due to your past deeds

    People say often that the world is unreal, yes! It is absolutely unreal
    But the world is not this physical world created by the Lord
    The unreal world is your family created by yourself due to your past karma

    Similarly, your religion is another broader unreal world created by you
    Your fellow religious people obstruct you from entering Universal spirituality
    Because they are your enemies in the mask of friendship in this birth
    You harmed them spiritually in the previous birth and therefore they have come
    Now here as your friends belonging to the same religion and revenge upon you
    When you come out of these two worlds, which are well and river
    You will enter the Universal Spirituality, which is the infinite ocean

    Some people try to get detachment from the family bonds
    Without the attachment to the Lord, they can detach from the family
    By attaining self through self-analysis but in this case they can get rid of
    The worries and misery by attaining the self, which is pure awareness
    Such detachment without attachment to the Lord is not permanent.
    The attachment to the self is not as strong as the bond with the Lord
    Therefore, such people who get only peace by self achievement cannot
    Remain in that state for a long time, bliss is stronger than peace
    Because God is stronger than the soul, soul gives peace and God gives bliss
    Therefore, detachment from the family by attachment with the Lord alone
    Is real and final, the scholars get attached to the self by analysis
    And think that the self it self is the Lord and they feel that they are the Lord.
    These pseudo Advaita Scholars are dragged again by the families and
    They are insulted by the Maya and they are shown the reality.

    The service to be done to the Lord should not be decided by yourself
    You are pleased by doing the service to the Lord as per your desire
    Your desire and your pleasure should not be the final goal of the mission
    You must do that service, which is desired by the Lord and which pleases Him
    His desire and His pleasure should be the final goal of your service
    Mere service is not important but the service required by Him is important
    Some devotees serve this society to uplift all the human beings
    Such social service cannot please the Lord unless He wishes so, without His wish
    If you serve the society, that is only to fulfil your desire for the fame
    Sankara condemned this concept of social service i.e., Loka Sevaka Matam.
    The Lord knows when, whom and where to uplift in this entire world
    Whether it is His mission or His personal service, His desire is important
    Even in His personal service the angle in which He desires is important
    If His hand is paining, what is the use of pressing His legs?
    Therefore, at every step the desire, direction and final pleasing of the Lord
    Is the only essence and goal of the entire spiritual effort
    The Lord alone can protect you and not this world, social service indicates
    Your love on your fellow human beings, who constitute a bigger family only.
    You have to sacrifice everybody, everything and even every concept for that
    He tests you by asking that thing only, which you cannot sacrifice
    He always attacks your strongest bond and conducts the test
    One test is sufficient because if you can break your strongest bond for the
    Sake of the Lord, all the other bonds, which are weaker need not be tested
    The sacrifice of strongest bond with any thing other than the Lord alone
    Can prove that you have the strongest bond with the Lord only.
    You have to cross the family bonds and even the bond with your life
    As told by Jesus, Krishna says that you have to cross even Dharma or Justice
    For the sake of the Lord because as the protector of justice, He is greater than
    The protected justice “Sarva Dharman …” is said in Gita.
    Thus Datta conducts only one test and gives you the final report
    You will always try to sacrifice all the weak bonds for His sake
    Then you claim that you can sacrifice everything for His sake
    The Lord smiles at your talented dramatic action and keeps silent
    If you go on still shouting that you are His best devotee, then
    He will enter the field and touches your strongest bond or your weakness
    You will utterly fail at that point and your mouth is shut forever
     
  9. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Undeserving does not mean a child. Child is a child and is totally innocent. But the fellow is very wise in the world. He has developed intelligence. He is acting very well in the worldly affairs. But only for God affair he is not responding properly. How can you compare that fellow to a child? He must be a child totally. Suppose he is innocent even in the world, then we can say he is a child. But he is very wise in the world, but when topic of God comes he say he is innocent!. He is not a child!. So, he is undeserving. You are not asking why the just born baby is not praying God. A grown up person who is well advanced, quite intellectual when he is not worried about God, we say that he is undeserving. He cannot say that I am innocent about God treat me as a child. Then he should be child for worldly affairs also!
     
  10. Angela22

    Angela22 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Well, of course that door is closed to them, those who aren't interested. You have to be willing to see the truth to understand it, and if they say they aren't willing, then it's time to move on. The whole point in the Gospel is to get it to know who don't know, but those who already know and have left or have never decided to get along with it, there is no point in trying to force feed them the truth.

    Life is liberty, faith is liberty, and liberty is what the Son has given us in His sacrifice, and His has confirmed in His resurrection. They have to come freely or not at all.

    This is what we've been handed in mercy, and we should have faith to the end, belief to the end, hope to the end, knowing what's promised will be ours, and not worry on any who simply will not be apart. Pray for them, show them kindness sincerely, but never condemn since it's not our place to, nor worry since he son teaches us not to. :)
     
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