Black Relationships : Solving Problems in a "Relationship"

Brother Edward Williams ... you're so sweet, you make problem solving fun! :party:
See, that's the way both people in a relationship, black male and black female, should see problem solving. I mean can't wait to solve a problem. We usually try to avoid talking about problems in relationships which is dangerous.

Okay ... for the sake of the experiment, let's go back to step 4, it reads ... 4. The Initiator then asks the Helper if they have any questions. ... i propose that this be changed to the following ... 4. The Initiator then asks the Helper if they understand / agree that this is a problem, and if they have any questions surrounding the alleged problem. ... We are fortunate in this experiment, that you agree that there is a problem, and no doubt understand it, but that might not always be the case. The Helper may totally disagree that the situation is problematic, at which point, something more is needed ... and they should not move forward until they can at least agree on if there is a problem or not.
Oh, I understand what you're saying and it is absolutely correct. But the answer to whether or not they agree that this is a problem should always be "yes". I guess I'm a bit of an idealist in that I presume if either you or I have a problem then you and I have a problem. That is how I see black male/female relationships working but I could be way off base here. But what you are saying is correct, both people may not agree that a problem exists and as we get further into the process, part of the process adresses that.

How about this; 4. The Initiator then asks the Helper if they understand / agree that this is a problem, and if they have any questions regarding the problem as stated. I think this may keep the focus and the conversation on the problem as stated and inhibit, as much as possible, the Helper from wandering off in the conversation. We have a problem with what I call Circular Thought which I describe as moving from problem perception, away from problem resolution, down a diversionary path, and back to problem perception. You know...never really solving the problem. So to minimize this I think it is best to keep the Helper focused on the problem as stated and not try to read anything into what has been stated or attempt to tell the Initiator "well you do the same thing"...you know the kinds of things that take our focus and determination for a solution away from what has been stated as the problem. This also put the onus on the Initiatior to make sure they state exactly what the problem is and stay away from how they feel about the problem or what their boys think the problem is or what their girls feel about the problem. State the problem that exists...you know, like you did, nice and simple and neat. :) Please let me know what you think and/or feel about the proposed verbiage. :)

OK, back to solving the problem. :)

My proposed solution to this problem, would be, that we don't tell each other we're going to do something, and then don't do it. Of course situation and circumstance sometimes keeps all of us from doing what we'd planned, but in such cases, we should at least let the other person know as soon as possible ... that is ... if we care about the relationship. To ignore or continue doing such, only generates negativity, where there doesn't have to be any.

Do you have any questions regarding my proposed solution?
I agree that what has been stated by you Destee as a proposed solution could very well be the solution to the stated problem. I have a couple of questions if I may? (waiting for the Initiator's OK) But before I do I'd like to say that your proposed solution appears to ensure that neither of us is mistreated and also ensures that the oine of us who needs help the most get the most help. I thank you for giving careful consideration to those. :) Here are my questions.

Would it be best in providing our proposed solution if we didn't add additional language that may suggest or insinuate that one of us may not care about our relationship?

Would it be best if we both agree that if there is going to be deviation in what we have agreed to or what I have said I would do at the time I said I would do it or something you have said you would do at the time you said you would do it, that we let each other know immediately and discuss it and come to an understanding of what is going to take place?

Do you have an alternate solution to offer, that might solve the problem better?
I think we've skipped to number 9 with this question without completing number 8. Can we save this one until we've completed number 8?

 
See, that's the way both people in a relationship, black male and black female, should see problem solving. I mean can't wait to solve a problem. We usually try to avoid talking about problems in relationships which is dangerous.

I agree with this. Oftentimes, what are very simple problems to resolve, end up costing our people great relationships.


Oh, I understand what you're saying and it is absolutely correct. But the answer to whether or not they agree that this is a problem should always be "yes". I guess I'm a bit of an idealist in that I presume if either you or I have a problem then you and I have a problem. That is how I see black male/female relationships working but I could be way off base here. But what you are saying is correct, both people may not agree that a problem exists and as we get further into the process, part of the process adresses that.

How about this; 4. The Initiator then asks the Helper if they understand / agree that this is a problem, and if they have any questions regarding the problem as stated. I think this may keep the focus and the conversation on the problem as stated and inhibit, as much as possible, the Helper from wandering off in the conversation. We have a problem with what I call Circular Thought which I describe as moving from problem perception, away from problem resolution, down a diversionary path, and back to problem perception. You know...never really solving the problem. So to minimize this I think it is best to keep the Helper focused on the problem as stated and not try to read anything into what has been stated or attempt to tell the Initiator "well you do the same thing"...you know the kinds of things that take our focus and determination for a solution away from what has been stated as the problem. This also put the onus on the Initiatior to make sure they state exactly what the problem is and stay away from how they feel about the problem or what their boys think the problem is or what their girls feel about the problem. State the problem that exists...you know, like you did, nice and simple and neat. :) Please let me know what you think and/or feel about the proposed verbiage. :)

I agree with the change, you're absolutely right. Focusing on the problem being presented, is paramount to its resolution. I've seen before, what you've said, where the "Helper" immediately becomes defensive, and begins hurling problems of their own. You may want to include something in the strategy to discourage this, as it may come naturally to some. Encourage them by letting them know, that once this problem is solved, they can move on to others.

I think it's beautiful what you said ... if you or i have a problem, then you and i have a problem ... i absolutely agree with this, but unfortunately, not everyone in a relationship with another, thinks this way. You say the plan covers this possibility, that the two involved may not agree that there is a problem, and that is great. But it seems to me that that verbiage should be closer to the top of the plan, for if you run into it, it will throw everything else off. I'm suggesting it should be determined / confirmed early on in the problem resolution process.

If the two cannot agree that there is a problem, what should they do next?


OK, back to solving the problem. :)

I agree that what has been stated by you Destee as a proposed solution could very well be the solution to the stated problem. I have a couple of questions if I may? (waiting for the Initiator's OK) But before I do I'd like to say that your proposed solution appears to ensure that neither of us is mistreated and also ensures that the oine of us who needs help the most get the most help. I thank you for giving careful consideration to those. :) Here are my questions.

:D ... Thanks! ... and yes, of course you may ask any questions you'd like!


Would it be best in providing our proposed solution if we didn't add additional language that may suggest or insinuate that one of us may not care about our relationship?

Yes, you're right, it only hints at other concerns (fears), that may not be problems at all ... muddying the water if you will ... so yes, i do agree that is best. I'll work on that! :)


Would it be best if we both agree that if there is going to be deviation in what we have agreed to or what I have said I would do at the time I said I would do it or something you have said you would do at the time you said you would do it, that we let each other know immediately and discuss it and come to an understanding of what is going to take place?

Yes, i think that is best.


I think we've skipped to number 9 with this question without completing number 8. Can we save this one until we've completed number 8?

Most certainly, sorry for getting ahead of us! :)

I've answered all questions thus far, and am more than willing to answer more if necessary. Just let me know.

:heart:

Destee
 
I agree with the change, you're absolutely right. Focusing on the problem being presented, is paramount to its resolution. I've seen before, what you've said, where the "Helper" immediately becomes defensive, and begins hurling problems of their own. You may want to include something in the strategy to discourage this, as it may come naturally to some. Encourage them by letting them know, that once this problem is solved, they can move on to others.

I think it's beautiful what you said ... if you or i have a problem, then you and i have a problem ... i absolutely agree with this, but unfortunately, not everyone in a relationship with another, thinks this way. You say the plan covers this possibility, that the two involved may not agree that there is a problem, and that is great. But it seems to me that that verbiage should be closer to the top of the plan, for if you run into it, it will throw everything else off. I'm suggesting it should be determined / confirmed early on in the problem resolution process.

If the two cannot agree that there is a problem, what should they do next?

I agree that we should place our revised question for Number 4 in place of what currently exists in Number 4 and I have done so. No sense wating to do something that makes sense to do now. :)

:D ... Thanks! ... and yes, of course you may ask any questions you'd like!

Would it be best in providing our proposed solution if we didn't add additional language that may suggest or insinuate that one of us may not care about our relationship?

Yes, you're right, it only hints at other concerns (fears), that may not be problems at all ... muddying the water if you will ... so yes, i do agree that is best. I'll work on that! :)

Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help. I will refrain from doing this as well and if by chance you see that I am doing it please bring it to my attention immediately and I will make the necessary adjustment to cease doing it. Thank you!

Would it be best if we both agree that if there is going to be deviation in what we have agreed to or what I have said I would do at the time I said I would do it or something you have said you would do at the time you said you would do it, that we let each other know immediately and discuss it and come to an understanding of what is going to take place?

Yes, i think that is best.

I've answered all questions thus far, and am more than willing to answer more if necessary. Just let me know.

:heart:

Destee

Those are the only questions I have. :)
 
Okay Brother Edward Williams ... this is all good ... but i think we need to stop and re-evaluate the process. I'm still concerned about the times when the Helper won't agree that the concern presented by the Initiator, is in fact a problem.

We changed #4 to include their agreement, that there is a problem. What if at that point, the Helper says this is not a problem?

Nos. 5 - 9 become unnecessary conversation, as they have not agreed that there is a problem.


4. The Initiator then asks the Helper if they understand / agree that this is a problem, and if they have any questions regarding the problem as stated.

5. If the Helper has questions about the stated problem the Helper asks those questions. The Helper always begins by making the following comment: I agree that what has been stated by “the Initiator” as a problem is indeed a problem. All questions are asked and answered before proceeding further.

6. If the Helper has no questions about the stated problem the Initiator proceeds to give the Helper a possible solution to the stated problem that ensures no person is mistreated and also ensures the person who needs help the most get the most help.

7. The Initiator then asks the Helper if they have any questions about the proposed solution.

8. If the Helper has questions about the proposed solution the Helper asks those questions. The Helper always begins by making the following comment: I agree that what has been stated by “the Initiator” as a proposed solution could very well be the solution to the stated problem. All questions are asked and answered before proceeding further.

9. If the Helper has no questions about the proposed solution the Initiator asks the Helper for a possible solution to the stated problem that ensures no person is mistreated and also ensures the person who needs help the most get the most help.

It seems that we are going on with the process, assuming that the Helper agrees that there is a problem, even suggesting that they phrase their responses accordingly, and asking them for solutions ... when this may not be the case.

It will be difficult for the Helper to do these things, if they don't agree there is a problem.

I think we need a 4a. 4b. 4c. 4d, etc., explaining what to do if the Helper does not agree that there is a problem.

This works fine, if all agree, but if they don't ... :eeek:

Whatcha think?

:heart:

Destee
 

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