Black History Culture : Should we continue identifying as African-American and Black?

Discussion in 'Black History - Culture - Panafricanism' started by KPITRL, Jan 13, 2015.

  1. KPITRL

    KPITRL Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    724
    Likes Received:
    308
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +384
    I was listening to a brother named Dr. Walter Williams on the Carl Nelson Show. He's been a guest on the show before. He's been around a while, and he has some views on the Bible that may disturb many. However, I'm not trying to discuss that right now. I want to discuss his opinion on how African-Americans should be identifying in America. He says that identifying as negro, colored, African-American, or black has done nothing in the pass but keep us subjected to white supremacy. I said myself that I thought we should move away from identifying as black because of the potential it has of dividing dark-skin and light-skin, and every shade in between, if you can define the shade in between. Even if some of this goes on in our subconscious, that whole mindset falls under the effects of white supremacy, therefore I agree with Dr. Williams in this regard. Therefore I also agree with Dr. Williams when he said that we should not really identify with color at all, because that doesn't give African-Americans anything to uniquely unify by here in America.

    Dr. Williams went on to say that every race on this planet can find a place on the globe and geographically claim their origin to it 100% legally, except black slave descendants in America. You can't find any geographical place on the globe called black, therefore we have nothing to gain politically by claiming to be black, other than to feel good about ourselves, which can be a little harder to do if you're light-skinned. This causes some light-skinned folks to feel the need to do extra to feel loved, accepted, and respected as a black person, especially when we fall into the blacker the berry the sweeter the juice, or the stronger you are, or similar mindsets. Then at the other end there's colorism which really seem to mean light-skinned favoritism. These two reasons alone are enough to make a brother or sister not want to identify by color at all if these self serving perceptions comes with the territory. Most of us don't even want to discuss this skin-tone issue we have with our race in America, but it does manifest itself regardless, whether we want to admit it or not. And it's mostly negative, especially in the South, and you feel it more when you're not from the South. It's probably something you can't discuss without causing harm. So that tells me there's something deeply wrong somewhere, and we need to throw it out. I think Dr. Williams approach is a step in the right direction towards solving this hidden ugly tool of division we have in our race as African-Americans. However I didn't make this thread to show how Dr. Williams opinion can help get rid of the dark-skin/light-skin thing. I added that in myself because it is very relevant whether we see it or not. But I really want to discuss how his opinion can help African-Americans unify and become our own ethical group like all other races on the globe. Then we can identify, work together, and compete for resources with some clout. I see no other way.

    So you're probably wondering what is the name we as African-Americans should start going by according to Dr. Williams. Well, he says we should start calling ourselves African Ancient Egyptians. He says the Ancient Egyptians are the start of civilization, and we are their descendants, which is something the slave masters and white supremacist been hiding from us for years. That tells me that if we as blacks could come together in America, we could make the Jetsons look like the Flintstones. Dr. Williams went on to say that although civilization started in Ethiopia, the most strongest part of the globe that identify where the world began civilization is Ancient Egypt. However, all their credit was stolen and given a white face, including it's religious figures. We all know that Greece stole everything from Egypt, then claimed to be the originators. The most accurate DNA databases will tell you Ancient Egyptians were black, as we already know. You have statues over there that look just like many modern black people over here. When Dr. Williams was asked why don't other parts of Africa identify as Ancient Egyptian, he said they didn't need to because they have there own geographical region of Africa they claim (Nigerian, Cameroonian, etc...). I guess this could be the same reason the rest of the races don't identify as Ancient Egypt. They also have there own geographical region of the globe as well. However it is us, African-Americans who have no geographical region on the globe, and therefore referred to as the lost children. Again, you won't find no area on the globe called Colored, Negro, African-American, or Black that uniquely identifies us. I said in an earlier thread, Asians will never call themselves yellow and proud, nor will Hispanics ever call themselves brown and proud. So how are we to think any of these non-white foreign groups will ever call themselves black (black and proud at that), even though we try to claim them as black. With most of them we're wasting our time, and we need to admit it. Furthermore, if they're asked to identify with a color while over here, it will be white. That's because we as blacks in America have no geographical region here or on this entire globe to claim as a 100% original African-American region. Therefore, non-white foreigners who are even darker than us will try to write down that they're white when they get here, if they don't use the name of their own geographical region. It's something when you know that most if not all of these geographical regions on the planet had black people first...something to think about.

    Anyway with all said, I'm still not sure if I can agree with Dr. Williams on this 100%. I'm still researching him, world history, and what others have to say on his opinion altogether. But I know for a fact that we need to start unifying regardless of religion and other things we shouldn't be tripping on as a result of white supremacy. And we need to stop unifying only when we are fiercely under attack by white supremacy. If we continue to wait to do so, it's going to be too late.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2015
  2. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    6,893
    Likes Received:
    3,609
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +4,097
    I am familiar with dr. williams. I have a number of disagreements with him.
    I will come back and explain a bit further. But in the meantime, prof. smalls
    exceptionally speaks to identity, starting at the 15min mark.
     
  3. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    32,016
    Likes Received:
    11,483
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    retired computer geek
    Location:
    north philly ghetto
    Ratings:
    +13,745
    :11100:wait, what? they found another way to divide black people?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  4. KPITRL

    KPITRL Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    724
    Likes Received:
    308
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +384
    As with Dr. Williams, I can't agree with Prof. Smalls 100%. I understand when he says that we have a geographical history here in America, while at the same time our ethnicity is African, therefore giving reason why he agrees with the term African-American. However other ethnic groups come over here but don't combine the name American to theirs, which makes sense if they want to compete and successfully feed their own. That makes more sense as we watch Asians come here and buy America, with the possibility of changing the name America altogether. One way or another, it's unlikely the Chinese or whatever ethnic group buys America, will ever combine their ethnic name with America. As America continue to show Blacks more and more that they are their enemies, it seems like that may make Blacks that much more eager not to call themselves African-Americans. Knowing that we can't even vote to keep the right to vote, and therefore possibly losing the right to vote every 25 years or so, tells me we were here on lease all the time anyway...a long least that keeps expiring. But now it seems America is even working on taking away the extended option.

    That alone is one of the biggest reasons I can agree with Dr. Williams not wanting to identify as African-Americans. With the condition Blacks are in today, identifying as Black didn't get us much either it seems. If we don't change this course, we won't have to worry about identifying as Black, because their won't be any Blacks left as we know today. It seems that it will soon be 4th down for African-Americans on our own 1 yard-line, facing the possibility of a touchback. I feel we may have to throw a hail-marry, whether it involves a name change or whatever. But if a name change now would prevent, or at least slowdown where the race is headed, then there's no need for the hail-marry. If it could help us unify, and as a result buy the field, than the more better. We need to either change something that we're doing wrong, or continue to watch "Scandal" on tv, or blindly go to the movies and see other sellout performances like "Dear White People", both directed by Black individuals so to speak, meanwhile other Black people remain silent and disappear.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2015
  5. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    6,893
    Likes Received:
    3,609
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +4,097
    There are native american groups who have their own group names. How as that
    'protected' them?

    Also, we can't worry about other folks coming here and what/
    how they choose to identify. For however in which way the wanna id themselves
    is no indictment on us in this country or the diaspora at large. Dr. williams and
    others are too 'politically correct' in their aim on this. Names/identification means
    is no exact science.

    We could call ourselves whatever we collectively agree on, where is the proof
    that alone will improve our lot? Can dr. williams provide evidence?

    I think jamesfrmphilly is on point in his post. Quibbling on what we should call ourselves
    at this point in time only works to divide us. When we in this part of the diaspora use the
    term black, afrikan or afrikan-american, 'we' know what/who we are talking about and that
    is what's most important. I have used all of them interchangeably. Among black folks, I
    have witnessed no one looking at me all 'confused', like 'what, who is he talking to'.

    I agree, we have to change whatever it is that is quite problematic for
    us. Solutions are out there, it is just a matter of whether or not folks
    wanna move to execute those ideas. Perhaps with this country's
    economy implodes is when we may be forced to move in the
    direction of progress. I hope it don't come to that, but that just
    might be what it takes unfortunately.
     
  6. KPITRL

    KPITRL Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    724
    Likes Received:
    308
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +384
    Their group name was given to them by their American friend turned enemy. But they still have a place to identify on the globe, which is India. According to Claude Anderson, the native americans participated in the slave trade and owned slaves. They lost their share of resources by fighting with the South during the Civil War to maintain slavery. Nonetheless they still get government assistance on their reservations, and don't pay certain taxes, etc... And they're still recognized as a group over us as far as this government and everybody else is concerned.

    I think we can learn a lot from other countries and how they operate over here, the Asians in particular, thus showing the ancient lesson that you don't when wars with weapons and keep your empire for hundreds of years. It's a model that we should have been practicing all along, instead of being tricked into the concept of multiculturalism. If we wake up, we can still build our own empire right here by doing trade between us and the rest of the diaspora. We're sitting on a gold mine and don't know it.

    What we call ourselves may not improve us alone, but there's a reason the slave masters stripped our ancestors of their names, culture, God, and language. These are the fundamental building blocks of all nations. Without them, it is hard to unify. We must understand why we should unify, which is for economic growth and survival as a group. Not to just make us feel good.

    It does feel like we're a little late in the game deciding what to call ourselves while our backs are up against the wall. We should work a plan and still decide on a name to secure our territory in the future. I just hope we can stick to a plan until we do unify under some kind of common denominator. One reason I'm not to high strung on Black is because we haven't woke up yet. But a huge reason is, I don't think we should make the same mistake whites made by identifying with color, which is a reason why their empire was so short lived compared to others, which is why we see them ready to collapse, possibly causing the biggest financial tumble in the history of mankind. Other empires weren't foolish enough to build on skin color alone, a direct insult to God, telling him he made a mistake. Identifying as black could be what's holding us back, and we don't even notice it. That's up for debate. But right now, it feels more like a target on our back for people to shoot, and we don't have a thing to counter it with. Right now, it looks like the only hope we have is for the Mothership to come to our rescue.

    I too hope the economy doesn't have to implode for us to move in the direction of progress. And whoever gets in control if it does collapse, I don't expect them to be much nicer to us just because they are non-white, especially if we continue to be consumers, or continue to operate the same way we do.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015
  7. ru2religious

    ru2religious Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    3,163
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +1,891
    To be quite honest both identities need to be removed from our of thought - just to start off with and I will give you the reasons as to my position.

    1. African American - AA's (acronym) - we have simply separated ourselves from the rest of Americans. When you see a white American/WA (acronym) you don't say "he's a European American" because they are simply viewed a Americans. To suggest that we continue with the name AA is simply to keep us out or limited within mainstream politics, social standing, economics, etc... Its like AA's have become a nation within a nation or better put "a third world nation within a thriving nation". The name alone suggest that we don't have any political, economical power because we are not standard U.S. citizens. Its like this - We have two American continents - once south and one north. A Brazilian, Columbian, Argentinian, etc in South American is just as much American as someone from the States because America is the name of two large continents. Saying 'African' and then American is no different then saying Brazilian American or any other country that lives on the America(s). We are simply a third world people living under a so-called first world social structure designed to keep us at bay.

    2. Black - to subscribe to a color is to simply accept a caste or social position. America has a caste system that is clearly defined by colors. You have 'white', 'yellow', 'brown', and 'black' - white being the most powerful and socially superior and black being the weakest and socially inferior. White people are not 'white' just like black people are not really black (some can get to that color but its actually the darkest form of brown). This is a social classes that we've been assigned in order to separate use into imaginary categories that have no genetic or historical legitimacy.

    THE MAIN DEBATE AND ITS PROBLEM:

    So the debate over what should we be identified as is really a historical tool used to keep us separated and in confusion. It doesn't matter of we are called African Americans or Black because both titles have a negative connotation. AA represents 3rd world civilians living in a supreme society and black represents the same but in the form of a caste system.

    Neither name should be used and no other title for use should be used except that we are Americans. Now don't get me wrong it took me a long time to come to this conclusion but its a real conclusion - one that is formatted in truth above Afrocentrism and Eurocentrism. We were born on a continent whether brought here as prisoners of war or if many of us was already here which historically leans toward that direction. My forefathers have been here at a bare minimum of 7 generation which is sometimes longer than what some of these white 'N' word slanging boys who's great grandfathers migrated here have been.

    The problem with our people is that we are always trying to fit in and that's not what we need to do. We need to accept the fact that we are Americans born, breed, raised and feed - and sometimes on the battle fields we've bleed. We need to acknowledge that fact FIRST - and accept our identity and nationality. When we accept that - that's when we need to unify and create our own community commerce. If one sect of people identify with others that look like them than there is nothing prejudice about that which is what I can say about white, yellow, brown, etc ... What makes one group racist is when the opposing group gives them the power over them to suppress their personal, social, political, and networking power as we have done. A racist can only be a racist when the opposite party neglects to take responsibility over their own destiny.

    Whites stick to whites, yellow to yellow, brown to brown and black to ALL OTHERS EXCEPT BLACK. Its not about names which both titles are negative and I don't know how to express that to the highest degree - our problem is unity. People will always call their adversary names (e.g. n-word, monkey, hunky, *******, etc ...) and name calling has broken us as a child gets broken from being call their first hurtful name. Our people need to accept who we are (aka Americans) and live up to the hypothesized American dream. Others are doing it - but we spend all of our time barking, growling and haven't busted a grape during a wine stumping contest.

    AMERICANS IS WHO WE ARE - we can get centric and go by Moors, Hebrews, Egyptians, Yorubians, Iwe, Ifa, Maussa, Mandigo, Kongo, etc. .. but that's not who we are today ... Today we are mixed with all of those and more - which makes use that much more complex and thus we need to accept our nationality and current location without conforming into the Viruses of this planet but truly creating a NEW culture which is what all people are known by verses a name.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • List
  8. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    32,016
    Likes Received:
    11,483
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    retired computer geek
    Location:
    north philly ghetto
    Ratings:
    +13,745
    umoja.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  9. KPITRL

    KPITRL Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    724
    Likes Received:
    308
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +384
    These are some good reasons not to identify as African-American or Black that even Dr. Williams didn't mention on the Carl Nelson Show, and they are all on point. But if we identify as Americans, how do we compete for resources like the smart immigrants have done successfully, Asians in particular. Wouldn't identifying as Americans make it easier for White America to continue claiming everything we discover or invent, making us even more invisible.
     
  10. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Messages:
    6,893
    Likes Received:
    3,609
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +4,097
    The following is a discussion regarding identity that you may be interested in.
    Taking place on weaa fm 88.9fm between dr. jared ball and a catalina byrd the first 11min 28sec:

    One thing that dr. ball states and that I agree with is that other peoples generations removed from the place
    of their ancestors still get to connect/embrace those place, yet when it come to afrikan people in the
    diaspora, america in particular, it is discouraged.

    But what are thoughts on the discussion?
     
Loading...