Black People : SHOULD BLACKS BE CELEBRATING THANKSGIVING ??

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by blkbutterfly41, Nov 23, 2009.

  1. blkbutterfly41

    blkbutterfly41 Banned MEMBER

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    Good day , Family;

    With the holiday fast approaching , I respectfully ask : Should blacks be celebrating Thanksgiving ??

    I personally, Do take advantage of the time off and spend that time with family. . But I think the more accurate knowledge we have . The better the choices we make.

    I taught my kids that it's one of the most murderous and deceptive times for us in our American History, Under the disguise of peace and love.

    Lets see why ?? And Please feel free to add any information. And share your honest Point of view, freely. Peace

     
  2. blkbutterfly41

    blkbutterfly41 Banned MEMBER

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    This hits close to home, As I am B'klyn born and raised .....................

    STEALING THE LAND

    In Battery Park at the lower tip of Manhattan stands a monument to the legend we all learned in elementary school - how the Dutch bought Manhattan for $24 worth of beads and trinkets. Incorporating a huge flagpole, on its base is a bas relief depicting the transaction. It is captioned in stone, "… The purchase of the Island of Manhattan was accomplished in 1626. Thus was laid the foundation of the City of New York."


    It's time to rethink this little fable. First, consider the price. My father bought the home in which I grew up, in 1937, for $3,000. It sold in 1983 for 50 times that. My father learned the $24 story in school. So did I, and so did my children. But if $24 was the price in 1937 dollars, it would have been maybe $1,200 in 1983 dollars. This $24 for Manhattan is the only figure in the Western World that has never been touched by inflation!


    So we have to rethink the purchase price. Maybe it was 100 or 200 times higher -- $4,800, perhaps. But even at $4,800, the statue invites us to smile indulgently at the Indians. What a bargain! Today, $4,800 wouldn't buy a site large enough to pitch a pup tent in Manhattan! What silly Indians, not to recognize the potential of the Island! Rather than deriding the Natives as foolish, history textbooks today lament the cultural gap that caused a basic misunderstanding. Native Americans held a pre-modern understanding of land ownership: buying and selling land wasn't part of their culture. This is the social archetype of the haplessly pre-modern Indians. Natives just could not understand that when they sold their land, they transferred not only the right to farm it but also the rights to its game, fish and sheer enjoyment.


    Although kinder than merely making American Indians foolish, that archetype is still wrong. Native Americans and European American ideas about land ownership were not so far apart. Most land sales before the twentieth century, including sales between whites, transferred primarily the right to farm, mine, and otherwise develop the land. Access to undeveloped land was considered public, within limits of good conduct. Moreover, tribal negotiators often made sure that deeds and treaties explicitly reserved hunting, fishing, gathering, and traveling rights to Native Americans. Natives were correct when they believed they still had the right to hunt on the land they had sold. Nevertheless Europeans often then accused them of trespassing and jailed and sometimes killed them for the offense.


    Even if they understood that they could continue to use Manhattan, it still seems surprising that American Indians would trade away their very homeland - sell their villages and gardens, their fishing grounds and hunting land - for $24 or even $4,800 worth of beads and trinkets. Peter Francis, Jr., "Director of the Center for Bead Research in Lake Placid," points out that no documentary evidence even suggests that European trade beads were used to buy Manhattan.


    If by now the story seems hopelessly implausible, it should - because it didn't happen. It turns out that the Dutch paid the wrong tribe for Manhattan - the Canarsies. Today visitors can take the subway from Battery Park to Canarsie - the name lives on, in Brooklyn. 1 And indeed, the Canarsies lived in what is now Brooklyn. So why wouldn't they sell Manhattan to the Dutch? Especially since the Dutch probably paid a substantial sum in the form of blankets, kettles, steel axes, knives, and perhaps guns - goods American Indians valued highly and would go to great lengths to obtain. No doubt the Canarsies were as pleased with the bargain as the New Yorker who sold Brooklyn Bridge to some later Europeans - they got paid for something that wasn't theirs in the first place.


    The apocryphal Brooklyn Bridge sale invites us to laugh at the tourists - stupid bumpkins! Similarly the Dutch were bumpkins in the "New World." (Hardly a "New World," since when first discovered by Europeans the Americas were home to about 100 million people, according to historian William McNeill. Pg. 60, Lies Across America) As Reginald P. Bolton, who wrote most widely on the sale of Manhattan, put it, "The colonists do not appear to have made themselves acquainted with the native situation… [The Canarsies'] wily leaders conveyed the impression of their ownership of the whole island, and thus secured for themselves and their own people all the goods which the white men were offering." 2 But the conventional Manhattan sale tale invites us to laugh not at the tourists, but at the Natives. It all depends on who has the power. The Dutch and their European American successors won, so the story is told to make the Indians the bumpkins.


    Actually, the Dutch were happy to have bought Manhattan from the wrong tribe because they weren't really buying Manhattan but the right to Manhattan in the eyes of other Europeans. In short, they were buying respectability - in their own eyes too. With this monument, inscribed "In testimony of ancient and unbroken friendship, this flagpole is presented to the City of New York by the Dutch people, 1926," the Dutch were still in a way buying world esteem three centuries later.

    http://www.worldfreeinternet.net/AmericanHolocaust/stealing.htm


     
  3. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    the point is not the day or holiday, he point is while we are with family, are we;
    talking about setting up scholarship funds for the children?
    talking about nation building skills?
    talking about setting up a family wide emergecy preparedness coalition?
    talking about and planning regular mens meetings to share resources and build a stronger family?
    talking about and planning regular women's meetings to share resources and build a stronger family?
    talking about collective purchasing power, for food and essentials?
    talking about joint investment programs?

    And regarding the family as the village that is needed to raise a child?
    and a microcosm of the Black community, so that each family member can express these ideologies and principles with thier community or block association,
    while they are absent one from another
     
  4. blkbutterfly41

    blkbutterfly41 Banned MEMBER

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    Wow, brother, I hope that most are doing most of those things during the duration of the year. Not necessarily just that day, week, etc.

    I just wanted to decipher the lies and misconception that goes along with the illusions of the holiday. But great post. Thanks

     
  5. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    well the fact of the matter as Black folks always say and you dear heart have heard this since childhood,

    we only get together at funerals and weddings


    or holidays, theirs or ours
     
  6. blkbutterfly41

    blkbutterfly41 Banned MEMBER

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    And I realized something...black people celebrating the 4th of July is almost the same as a Native American celebrating Thanksgiving. Most of us are directly related to Native Americans.

    Of course for indians they probably do not celebrate July 4th either for slightly but ultimately similar reasons as black people.

    But if you look, you will see many blacks celebrate this and thanksgiving (which you could also argue is a day blacks should not celebrate either) but you will only see far and few Indians celebrate these two holidays.

    The question is why? There is no real answer other than the native Indians and the blacks have had similar differences and experiences in America. The blacks were enslaved. The Indians were actually enslaved as well. Those that wasn't was killed or they were kicked out of their lands multiple times. Blacks do not live in reservations while most Native Americans do, still to this day. Blacks kind of assimilated more into White culture than the Native Americans. That is only because we was stripped from our culture. While Blacks are highly underrepresented in this country Native Americans are even more underrepresented, in fact I would not be surprised if Indians from India are represented more.

    For blacks, what does Thanksgiving and the 4th of July mean, or used to mean? Well Frederick Douglass argued, Why it was dumb for him to celebrate the 4th of July. Slavery was still happening and those so called rights do not apply to him or other slaves. And in today's time blacks are still treated like second class citizens. Throw in teh spanish popular , we would be third pretty soon.

    Thanksgiving simply represents the fact that all these Europeans who came over brought along slaves, even if slavery was different than Post-Revolutionary war slavery, it was slavery nonetheless.

    But the reasons for a black person to not celebrate these holidays is nowhere as deep of a reason for Native Americans. And as I give more thought to it, Are most are currently one of the same ??

    Today almost everyone who celebrates these holidays could care less about the history behind it. Holidays exist only as an excuse for some to get drunk, for no school (or work depending on your career), to pig out on food, to maybe see family and etc.

    Maybe its a good thing for at least the 4th of July and Thanksgiving that the meaning of these days are somewhat forgotten. OR is it ?? Is it a good things that we forget the meaning of these so called eurocentric holidays ??

    But I must say its annoying when white people say you are being "unpatriotic" for not celebrating the 4th of July...I noticed that white peoples' brand of "patriotism" is actually dangerous for black Americans, because its full of ignorance and hate.

    I honestly do not care for the holiday itself or for that matter its meaning. I didn't even celebrate it . Its a throw-away holiday for me. Because of whats attached is lies , deception and trickery. As I am proudly native America and black. But when I think a little bit more deeply about it And I know where native americans come from. Its insulting to all my people....Blacks, Native americans and any person of color ) to honor such a day. What do you think ?? What would our ancestors think ??

    I know that my post sound contridicting and that's done on purpose to intise YOUR thoughts . ** smile**
     
  7. blkbutterfly41

    blkbutterfly41 Banned MEMBER

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    lol, My dear brother. I am not the norm, Proudly.

    Me , My immediate family and extended family have family day . ( Which is a long week-end event ) At least 4 times out the year. And big family re-unions once every 2 years. Which includes , historical plays, recitals, honoring our ancesters, And includes One honorary family member which usually is the person that achieved success and gave back the most unselfishly. And adding to that "patchwork". We kick it off with God leading. And end it with God's blessings. And we proudly have family members of islamic, christian, catholics, JWs, etc. And we do it in a way that is loving, respectful and suitable for all. **wink**

    Re-building and structuring black family takes years to make an legecy. We lead by example and pray that others follow suit. As we re-build our family, It spills over to our community. And so on.

    The goal is to make the general statement you made , NOT SO GENERAL. **wink**


     
  8. decipherx1

    decipherx1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Great post sister,
    Before I knew the REAL meaning I LOVED the holiday.
    But As I got older and found out WHAT really went down,
    I stopped celebrating for mnay yrs.
    At this momment I am living w/ family members that
    Celebrated it, so I have no choice but to help out w/ chores
    And help w/ the food(of course eat it lol)
    But If I was not in my current situtation, NO,
    I would not, and don't think we should celebrate Thanksgiving
    Only because it was the beginning of the end For Native Americans
    And African Americans.
     
  9. Bootzey

    Bootzey Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    My question is this... And I fully understand history.... Is there another day that you and you loved ones get together and share you social equality? If so, then don't partake. But for many, Thanksgiving is a day where people put most of their differences aside and make an effort to be part of a family. And I cannot see anything wrong with that. And if you are concerned about the babies, you should be teaching them the truth year round. Not just stealing their turkey from them. Oh, and boycott the football games too while your at it.
     
  10. blkbutterfly41

    blkbutterfly41 Banned MEMBER

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    Hello Sister, Bootzey................... People do what they want to do as far as the holidays are concerned. And as I stated previously. We have family day which is an long weekend event , several times a year. We make and create our own traditions.

    However thanksgiving is an holiday that celebrates murder ( Small pox put in the blankets offered as a gift , They stole their land and sold it. ) And Ultimately was the begining of our own destruction.

    I teach my babies the truth as I do other children. Thats not taking anything from them But it teaches them that we do not have to be like them or celebrate their holidays and It's ok to think, exercise thought and be ourselves. And most defnitely know your history. It gives you choice.

    We eat turkey all year long.

    You celebrate what you want. But celebrate it knowing WHAT YOU"RE CELEBRATING !! Enjoy your Turkey. Peace

    btw: I like football !! lol


     
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