Black Spirituality Religion : Scripture, Holy Books.......What, Why, Importance?

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by rasheed, May 19, 2004.

  1. rasheed

    rasheed Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    4
    Occupation:
    working for Paradise (Jannah)
    Location:
    Lawton, OK
    Ratings:
    +4
    Peace be unto you.

    i have come to accept that Scipture refers to the Word of the Creator exactly as Soken (revealed) by the Creator. That it does not include any translations, interpretations, extrapolations, innovations, writings by inspired people, eyewitness accounts, historical renderings etc.

    i have come to accept that The Qur'an is the only existing Holy Book that fits this description and is still in existence today but that the Pages of Abraham, Torah revealed to Moses, Psalms revealed to David, Injil/Gospel revealed to Jesus and countless other Holy Books revealed to the Messengers that taught and lived them were all the same (by this i mean all were the direct revealed Words of G-d) when revealed but no longer exists in totality in their oringinal purities.

    i am interested in your understanding/overstanding and views of Scripture and the Word of God and even the importance of having such a Scripture.

    Please elaborate in a simple and straight forward manner as i have done

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Joyce

    Joyce Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 23, 2001
    Messages:
    2,715
    Likes Received:
    56
    Occupation:
    people
    Location:
    Florida
    Ratings:
    +56
    This will prove to be a very interesting topic for discussion. I studied my Qur'an for over a year. My boyfriend (at that time) was Islamic. I learned so much and had actually turned my back on Christianity as a result of the "games" I saw being played out. In studying the Qur'an, I became discourage with the teachings of Islam because of the anti-jew, white devils and so forth. Though the Qur'an does not teach hate (at least not from what I read), those who read it did. My boyfriend attempted to influence me to hate Jews and white people. I had probs with that.

    Eventually, my life hit bottom with drug use and other things. And would you know that someone came to share Christ with me at a critical time in my life. Only they did not tell me to join a church. They talked to me about being in relationship with Christ. For the first time in my life...I experienced change by mere trust in His words. So I laid aside the Qur'an and took up the bible once again and I have not looked back since. The major difference that I see between the 2 books is how the deity of Jesus Christ is expressed. No book was "revealed" to Him. He WAS the Word manifested in flesh. He knew all things for by Him are things were created.

    That's my take on this topic. Thanks for posting this question.

    ~j
     
  3. rasheed

    rasheed Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    4
    Occupation:
    working for Paradise (Jannah)
    Location:
    Lawton, OK
    Ratings:
    +4
    Joyce,
    i am sorry for your misfortunes and happy for your good fortunes. i am also very sorry for the misrepresention of Muslims that you received that you have described. There is far too much of this happening. There is so much wrong with the picture in your statement that let's me know the person with whom you had that fractured relationship was not living as a Beleiving Muslim.
    i'm happy that you did see that the Qur'an does not support the wrong-doing that you saw some people who read it practice. We know that the Good of the Bible does not support the Evil that we see some who read it regrlarly paractice.

    as an aside, i read the complete King James text when i was seaching (before i accepted Al-Islam) and i have read many English translation of the Qur'an as well as the full phonetic text in Arabic (Arabiya) many times..............

    Praise be to Allah

    Peace and Blessings.......
     
  4. Joyce

    Joyce Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 23, 2001
    Messages:
    2,715
    Likes Received:
    56
    Occupation:
    people
    Location:
    Florida
    Ratings:
    +56

    Thankfully, I did see a beautiful example of islamic expression in a black woman when I was about 13. I've only seen her one time but I will never forget the impression she made on me. She was dressed in islamic garb. Being inquistive like I was and am, I asked her why it had to be so long and was she not hot? After all this was summer. I remember her telling me that she was actually protected from the heat and that a woman's ankles were consider sacred for various reasons. She had the aura of one who was really confident in who she was and had nothing to prove or no reason to be influenced by other sistahs who like myself were "different".

    Bottomline, any religion can be used to manipulate or hurt others.
    In the name of Christianity, many have been enslaved, murdered and controlled in cults. This is so very sad. It causes so many to turn their backs to me and others who share their faith with others. I am sure you, being Islamic, understand where I'm coming from. I can only imagine how you felt on 9-11-01. Do you live here in America? How did you deal with this...were you hurt by this?

    Throughout my years as a Christian, I have always been hurt (and sometimes embarassed) by people who say...God told me to do it. Mothers have killed their children because they felt God told them to do it. Blacks were made to be slaves in the name of God. In the 1600s many died at the hands of the ignorant because they were thought to be witches. A more detailed example is the man who bombed the abortion clinic some years ago in Pensacola Florida. Yes, abortion is murder but taking a life because a life was taken is not right either. Thus, this heaps further unbelief upon the minds of people who see Christianity as a religion for weak people. This man thought he was doing God a service and would get a reward of some kind, just as the 19 men who committed the 9-11 atrocities thought that they would get 72 virgins each for killing themselves and murdering thousands of innocent people.

    For me, I have to keep my eyes on Jesus because the moment I take my eyes off of Him, His principles, the words He taught, then I am in trouble. That's how so many "Christians" get off track...they take their eyes off of Jesus...then make up "their" own rules as they go.
     
  5. rasheed

    rasheed Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    4
    Occupation:
    working for Paradise (Jannah)
    Location:
    Lawton, OK
    Ratings:
    +4
    Joyce stated:
    This is what i hoped for but as of yet there have not been simple clear comments on Scripture that will aid me and others.

    What is the role of scripture in guiding humans to the true path of salvation as designed by the Creator? Is there an unadulterated and complete manual for humans to study and follow in existence today? What has been the effects of human translations, interpretations, interpolations, cannonizations and other alterations on the Words of Guidance from the Creator?

    Please simple easy to read and comprehend answers; not volumes of possibly confusing rhetoric..................................(that only you and some select group can read and comprehend) K.I.S.S. and don't make an A S S of U and ME
     
  6. rasheed

    rasheed Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    4
    Occupation:
    working for Paradise (Jannah)
    Location:
    Lawton, OK
    Ratings:
    +4
    Joyce,
    i consider myself a civilized and decent human being and as such i am shocked, disgusted and angered when humans commit atrocities anywhere.
    Yes, i live here (USA) and have all of my life. All of the wrongs done against humanity are deplorable to me both those in the present and the historical ones. The Creator is judging all of them and none shall go without proper judgement and justice even though people don't seem to get it and only are for judgement and justice when they seem to be in their favor.......
    i have been wronged and lied on for being black already; to be dealt injustice because i am Muslim is no new thang. Injustices and wrongs under any other name or pretense is still the same old injustice and wrong.....

    Peace and Blessings......
     
  7. Joyce

    Joyce Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 23, 2001
    Messages:
    2,715
    Likes Received:
    56
    Occupation:
    people
    Location:
    Florida
    Ratings:
    +56

    Rasheed:This is what i hoped for but as of yet there have not been simple clear comments on Scripture that will aid me and others.

    I'm sorry...I obviously misunderstood your post. I didn't know you wanted to discuss scripture. I assume because you were Muslim that you would not be interested in reading any scriptures I might post for discussion, let alone use them as an "aid". Many Muslims are not interested in the New Testament so I simply wrote on principle instead.

    Rasheed:"What is the role of scripture in guiding humans to the true path of salvation as designed by the Creator?"

    Which scriptures are you speaking of? Quran or the Bible? If you are referring to the bible, I believe the Bible is the perfect guide to salvation as designed by our Father, the Creator. Should anyone read the 3 chapter of the book of John, salvation is vividly laid out and very simple...just believe and receive.

    Is there an unadulterated and complete manual for humans to study and follow in existence today?

    For me the Bible fits that order perfectly and smoothly.

    What has been the effects of human translations, interpretations, interpolations, cannonizations and other alterations on the Words of Guidance from the Creator?


    The same effect as religion period has had on the human race period. God desires relationship...one on one...not rituals, practices or isolated beliefs.

    ~j
     
  8. rasheed

    rasheed Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    4
    Occupation:
    working for Paradise (Jannah)
    Location:
    Lawton, OK
    Ratings:
    +4
    i have read the entire Bible (which many professed Christians i meet haven't) as well as the whole of the Qur'an many times in English and the original language (which is common for most Muslims i meet) i am interested in the truth and sincerity from people (The true religion is based in sincerity) Yes the Qur'an is my Book of Guidance but i try to meet people where they are because i know that is the only place you can reach them. i am not the only person here (on this site) nor the only one needing help. The Creator aids people from places we cannot imagine. I have found many interesting and true writings in the Bible even though it is not my Book of Guidance. All Good and Truth is from the Creator; what is not so cannot stand and perishes not by my likes or dislikes but by its own false nature.

    "what comes from the heart reaches the heart while what comes only from the lips can only reach the ears."

    Of course i'm speaking of the Qur'an but my question is genuinely seeking what you and others believe and my ears and attention are devoted to this. If they were not, i would not have asked a question but would have merely spoken at everyone with what i believe.

    Though i don't agree with much of what you are saying i can still listen to it with respect and discipline as long as you are showing the same toward me. The Creator is the judge of us all.

    i was raised in a Christian household and most of my relatives still consider themselves to be Christian.
     
  9. Joyce

    Joyce Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    May 23, 2001
    Messages:
    2,715
    Likes Received:
    56
    Occupation:
    people
    Location:
    Florida
    Ratings:
    +56
    Okay...I believe then that I have answered your questions in post #7. I would like to know what is your favorite scripture in the Qur'an? As you have found many scriptures of interest in the Bible, I too have read much of the Qur'an and there are some scriptures of interest therein as it relates to what I've found in the bible.
     
  10. rasheed

    rasheed Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    4
    Occupation:
    working for Paradise (Jannah)
    Location:
    Lawton, OK
    Ratings:
    +4
    i appreciate your response and sincerity. i personally do not consider any writings that are not directly from the Creator as scripture or the true script no matter how good they sound, especially not the letters or writings of "inspired" men or women, historians, eyewitnesses, translations, transpositions, cannonizations etc., but i know there are people who do.

    The whole of the Qur'an is my favorite and it all goes together and is the best explanation or tafseer of itself.

    The Opening Chapter(Surah) or Al-Faatihah is the one that i and all Believing Muslims recite most often and it contains the seven most oft repeated verses (ayaat) or signs of any Scripture.

    "With Allah's (G-d's) Name, the Merciful Benefactor, the Merciful Redeemer
    All Praise is due to Allah, the Guardian, Evolver, Cherisher and Sustainer of all systems of knowledge (all worlds)
    The Merciful Benefactor, the Merciful Redeemer
    Master of the Day of Judgement.
    You alone we worship and You alone we seek for aid
    Show us and guide us upon the Straight Path
    The path of those upon whom Your Grace is showered
    not those who merit Your wrath nor those who go astray."

    So be it

    "BismeAllahear-Rahmaa near-Raheem
    Al hamdu lil-lahi, Rab-bil 'aalameen
    Ar-Rahmaa near-Raheem
    Maaleke yau mid-deen
    EEyaaka na'budu wa EEyaaka nastaeen
    eh denaS Seraa Tal mustaqeem
    Seraa Tal-latheena an-umta 'alayhim
    Ghai-real magh do-be 'alayhim
    wa laD Daaal-leen AAA-meeen"


    Thanks for your time and responses........
    And surely the Creator knows best.....
    Peace, Mercy, Blessings
     
Loading...