Black Spirituality Religion : Schools trying to force religion on students

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by tay_tay225, Mar 11, 2010.

  1. tay_tay225

    tay_tay225 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I've said before that I don't believe in God, and schools should respect the religious/non-religious views of their own students. I thought they were respecting me until I realized that many of us are being expected to say that we believe in God.

    I don't know if this applies to all schools, but at mine, teachers prefer if the class says the pledge of allegiance every day. In this pledge (if someone doesn't know it,) we're told to say "one nation under God" somewhere in the middle. This is implying that those who say it believe in God, is it not?

    Last year, I refused to say it and I was told by my history teacher that if I didn't want to say it, I could leave the classroom. I never told any other staff members, although I am still considering doing so. But leaving the classroom felt like a form of punishment.

    While I just might be the only one here who doesn't believe in God, I want to know if anyone thinks this was unfair treatment. I also want to know your views on the Pledge of Allegiance and the fact that some schools want their students, believers or not, to say it every day.
     
  2. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Although I am a Christian, I agree that it is an unfair punishment to have you leave the room. Everyone is free to believe or not believe as their convictions guide them and it is inappropriate to alienate an individual because of their choice or convictions either way.

    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

    Is the word "God" the only word in the pledge you are opposed to? Are you otherwise in agreement with a pledge of allegiance to the United States of America?
     
  3. tay_tay225

    tay_tay225 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Well the thing is, I don't understand it. I'd been saying it all of my life and have never taken the time to go over what it means, because all I know is I'm here.

    So I can't tell you whether I agree or not.

    All I know is they want me to act as if I believe in him when I don't.
     
  4. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The spirit of the pledge is based upon a commitment of your loyalty as a citizen of the United States to the nation and government of the United States. Are you more opposed to the discriptive term "under God" or to the idea of loyalty to the nation you discribe as "here"?

    My curiousity is if you had never taken the time to go over what a pledge means that you have been saying all of your life, how much time have you taken to evaluate the possibility of the existence of God? While I am a Christian, I am not trying to convince you of God's existence. I am just curious as to rather your rejection of the existence of God is based upon science and reason, upon emotion, or some other ideology.
     
  5. IntelligentNoir

    IntelligentNoir Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Okay, what the teacher did can be interpreted in more than one way. Asking you to leave doesn't nescessarily mean that he wanted to punish or shame you , rather it can also be interpreted as him not wanting to further offend you by having the name of God evoked in your presence. Perhaps he thought this was the best route in keeping down confusion.
     
  6. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Good point....

    This nation was founded by people who believed in God but who respected freedom of religion.

    An alternative would be for those who are opposed to the words "under God" to simply not say the pledge or not say those words within the pledge while remaining in the room.

    Tay Tay, are you offended by the words "In God we Trust" on our money? How do you deal with having to hold money in your pockets that acknowledge your trust in God?
     
  7. tay_tay225

    tay_tay225 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Being loyal to the place in which I live and being loyal to a supposed being that I cannot see or hear are two very different things.

    Apparently you're asking me how I came to believe that God doesn't exist. I'm not comfortable with being told that I'll go to Hell if I don't believe in God (or rather some form of him which I've been told is the same thing.) I've been told this countless times by people at churches I attended in my younger days. People of different religions believe in their own supernatural beings just as strongly as Christians believe in God, and I doubt that all of those people are told that believing in some other form of said being is okay.

    I refuse to believe that one religion is right and another is wrong without any evidence that I find sufficient.
     
  8. tay_tay225

    tay_tay225 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    It was a good point. I do think that I'll still ask about it in the case that he wasn't trying to be respectful, but I'll keep what Intelligent has said in mind.

    My reasons for being loyal have nothing to do with how this country came to be. I'm here and I'm free, and as far as this goes, that's what I find to be most important -- the here and now.

    As for the pledge, I have decided to stop saying it. And again, that's what I tried to do that day when I was asked to leave the classroom. And as for money, it's the same scenario as with the pledge. I've never taken the time to sit down and look at a dollar bill to see those words printed on it. On a light note, I'm pretty much always broke so it's rarely an issue, if it has to be considered one at all. :peace: Though this might be a question I should already know the answer to, I have to ask. Who exactly are they referring to as "we?" If they mean all of those who use it, I see it as THEM being dead wrong. I hope they aren't referring to everyone considering it is expected of them to respect the population partly by respecting their beliefs. As long as I'm not being forced to stand with my hand over my heart saying that I believe in God, they can feel free to think whatever they want to. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't go through the trouble of telling people why I don't believe in God as you can already see. I haven't seen it as a big enough problem.
     
  9. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Are you more opposed to the discriptive term "under God" or to the idea of loyalty to the nation you discribe as "here"?

    You didn't give a definative answer to the question. Trying to read between the lines, can I assume your answer is that you are more opposed to the discriptive term "under God" rather than loyalty to the place in which you live?

    In "The Pledge of Allegience" the pledge of loyalty is to the nation, not to God. The term "under God" is discriptive in nature.


    I must again say I am NOT trying to convince you of God's existence. What you have said here, however, is that you simply don't believe, or more specifically you "refuse to believe". My question was more related to how much time and what method did you use to evaluate the possibility of the existence of God?
     
  10. tay_tay225

    tay_tay225 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I thought I'd made it obvious in my reply that it was the use of the words "under God" that bothered me. I don't have a problem pledging to the place I live. They are saying that we all live in one nation UNDER GOD, and since I don't believe in God, I prefer not to act as if I do by saying this. Is that clear? This is what I have a problem with. If this isn't what you're looking for, then I guess I just don't understand what it is you're asking me.

    And I don't get what the method and time it took me has to do with anything.

    I don't believe in God, and so I don't feel comfortable saying the pledge that makes me act as if I do.
     
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