Black Hebrew Israelites : Revelation 6 - The Six Seals Understanding

Discussion in 'Black Hebrew Israelites Study Group' started by TruthHitman, Feb 6, 2015.

  1. TruthHitman

    TruthHitman Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Revelation 6 - The Six Seals

    4 horsemen refer to the 4 Rulerships that would rule earth.

    Rev 6 -1

    " And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see."

    4 Beasts are the Hebrew People = Ezekiel 1-10 ( "As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.")

    1. Face of a Man = Tribe of Reuben
    2. Face of a lion = Tribe of Judah
    3. Face of a Ox = Tribe of Ephraim
    4. Face of a Eagle = Tribe of Dan

    Rev 6-2 White Horse

    ""And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

    In prophecy: Horse means A Seat Of Authority or Rulership


    1. Horse = "Rulership and Authority" ( Esther 6 -8 "Let the royal apparel be brought which the king useth to wear, and the horse that the king rideth upon, and the crown royal which is set upon his head:")

    2. Horse = (Ezekiel 23- 6 "Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.")


    3. White = Purity, Righteousness, Holiness


    A. And he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

    He that sat on the Righteous Seat of Authority or Rulership who can make war and Rule is Christ.


    Christ and the Angels will return bringing A Righteous Rulership to Earth.

    The Millennial kingdom refers to the thousand-year reign of Christ and the Hebrew people

    1.(Revelation 19- 11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.")

    Verse 14 - "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."


    Rev 6 - 3

    "And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see"

    Rev 6 - 4 Red Horse

    "And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

    1. Red = Edom Seat Of Rulership = Greco- Roman Empire 333.B.C to 193 A.D

    In 333 B.C Alexander the Greek Conqured Persia and all the Middle East to India. The Greco -Roman Empire was prophesied by Daniel 300 yrs before.

    1. Daniel 7- 6- "After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

    A. leopard = swiftness
    B. Alexander always wore a leopard skin as a saddle blanket on his horse swiftness and also wore a helmet covered in leopard skin

    C. After Alexander’s death, the Greek empire split into four kingdoms, to the four points of the compass (the four wings)

    4 Wings(Kingdoms)

    1. Ptolemy- Egypt
    2. Seleucus I Nicator- Babylonia, Levant
    3. Antigonus obtained Asia
    4. Lysimachus governed the Hellespont
    5. Cassander possessed Macedonia


    A. And power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another:

    This verse is talking about the wars that were caused by the Greco Roman empire, according to Hebrew Historian Josephus these leaders and their descendants fought one another for riches and power

    "And while these princes ambitiously strove one against another, every one for his own principality, it came to pass that there were continual wars, and those lasting wars too; and the cities were sufferers, and lost a great many of their inhabitants in these times of distress, insomuch that all Syria, by the means of Ptolemy the son of Lagus, underwent the reverse of that denomination of Savior, which he then had."--------Josephus Antiquities of the Jews - Book XII

    also the scriptures backs Josephus 1 Macabees 1-2-4


    1 Macabees 1-2-4 (And made many wars, and won many strong holds, and slew the kings of the earth,

    3 And went through to the ends of the earth, and took spoils of many nations, insomuch that the earth was quiet before him; whereupon he was exalted and his heart was lifted up.

    4 And he gathered a mighty strong host and ruled over countries, and nations, and kings, who became tributaries unto him.)


    Historical Example of the wars of the Edomite Greco Roman Empire when they fought one another according to the Hebrews.


    Revelation 6-5-6 Black Horse = Hebrew Rulership of Africa and Byzantine Empire Middle Ages

    "And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

    And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."



    A. A black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand: The balance scales symbolize the Hebrew People, Balance is referring to the mosaic Laws. This is the Hebrew Seat of Authority or Rulership


    1. Leviticus 19 36-37 Just balances, just weights, a just ephah, and a just hin, shall ye have: I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt.
    Therefore shall ye observe all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: I am the LORD.


    2. Ezekiel 45 9-10 thus saith the Lord GOD; Let it suffice you, O princes of Israel: remove violence and spoil, and execute judgment and justice, take away your exactions from my people, saith the Lord GOD.
    Ye shall have just balances, and a just ephah, and a just bath.


    B. A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny. This symbolizes wealth and Prosperity for the Hebrew People, NOT A time of famine

    A measure of wheat = PROSPERITY


    To prove this statement lets look at the scriptures that talk about the wealth of Abraham and what a measure of wheat is


    Genesis 13 -2 And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.


    Now we know that Abraham was RICH lets now go to the scriptures and history to find out what a measure of wheat and Barley is worth.

    Genesis Chapter 18

    And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth

    Lets find out what a measure is

    Ezekiel 45:11

    The ephah and the bath shall be of one measure, that the bath may contain the tenth part of an homer, and the ephah the tenth part of an homer: the measure thereof shall be after the homer.


    Ezekiel 45:11 describes an "ephah" as being one-tenth of a homer. Abraham instructs Sarah to make bread using three "seahs" of flour which is described as one-third of an ephah, or 6.66 dry quarts.


    Historical Note: Pottery labeled "bath" (that was dug up in Tell Beit Mirsim in Jordan) has been found to hold about 5 gallons, comparable to similar containers of the Greco-Roman era with capacities of 5.68 gallons.

    Since Ezekiel 45:11 equates the "bath" (liquid measure) with the "ephah" (dry measure), the best estimate for this volume would be about 5.8 gallons (22 liters). a homer equals roughly 58 gallons.

    According to these measures, if Sarah mixed up three "seahs" of flour, she used nearly 5 gallons of flour to make bread for Abraham's three angelic visitors.


    C. See thou hurt not the oil and the wine. Oil and wine is symbolic for the prosperity of the Hebrew People during the Middle Ages


    Oil = "Symbolic For Prosperity of the Israelite People" (Jeremiah 11-6 "Then the LORD said unto me, Proclaim all these words in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, saying, Hear ye the words of this covenant, and do them)


    Wine = "Symbolic For Prosperity of the Israelite People" (Jeremiah 2-21 Yet I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: how then art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto me?)


    Revelation Chapter 6-7,8 Pale Horse The Ottoman Turk Empire 1453-present


    And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
    And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

    A. behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.


    The Pale horse is referring to the Turkish onslaught and conquering of the Middle east,Levant, North Africa,and Europe

    Historical Note: During the 11th century the Seljuk Turks grew in number and were able to occupy the eastern province of the Abbasid Empire. By 1055 the Seljuk Empire captured Baghdad and began to make their first incursions into the edges of Anatolia.The victory of the Turks at the Battle of Manzikert over the Byzantine Empire, in 1071, opened the gates of Anatolia to the Seljuk Turks. Although ethnically Turkish, the Seljuk Turks appreciated and became the purveyors of the Persian culture over the Turkish culture.

    B. Power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill:
    The 4th Part Of the earth is the Middle East and the Levant, North Africa and Europe

    Historical Note: In 1453, Ottoman armies, under Sultan Mehmed II, conquered Constantinople. Mehmed reconstructed and repopulated the city, and made it the new Ottoman capital.

    After the Fall of Constantinople, the Ottoman Empire entered a long period of conquest and expansion with its borders eventually going deep into Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa.




    Revelation Chapter 6-9 Persecution of Early Hebrew Christians in Rome


    "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

    A. I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God: These souls are the Hebrews that were Killed because of their belief in Christ



    Act 7-59 Stephen Is Stoned to Death



    Revelation Chapter 6-10


    " And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

    Revelation Chapter 6-11


    "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    A. And white robes were given unto every one of them- White stands for Righteousness or Righteousness deeds


    B. It was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season- Rest means Death So these Righteousness Hebrew men had were put to death during the time of Rome


    C. Until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. - The Fellow servants are the true Hebrew people who follow and understand the scriptures the 144,000

    Some of these Great Men will die before Christ comes But will be Resurrected when her arrives.

    Revelation 14-13 - And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.


    Revelation 12-17 - And the dragon(Edomite Nation- Rome, America etc.) was wroth with the woman(Israelites), and went to make war(Persecutions and killings) with the remnant of her seed(Modern descendants of Hebrew), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.




    Destruction to the inhabitants of Earth

    Revelation Chapter 6-12 Destruction to the inhabitants of Earth



    " And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood

    A. there was a great earthquake; That Earth quake will be cause by Christ, he will cleave the Mt of Olives in too.

    Zechariah 14 3-4-5 "the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof"

    Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

    4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

    5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

    B. And the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood-- Complete Darkness on Earth, No Light, the Sun nor the Moon or Stars will shine their light.



    Isaiah 13 - 9-10

    Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

    10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.




    Revelation Chapter 6-13 Earth Is darkened


    "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."



    A. And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth- The light of the Sun Moon and stars will cease

    Exodus 19- 16-18 Most high comes in Great Darkness

    16.And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.

    17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.

    18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.


    Revelation Chapter 6-14



    "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.


    A. heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together- this is the destruction of human life on earth

    Isaiah 34- 1-2 4 Heaven dissolved and heaven shall be rolled together as a scroll




    1.Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.

    2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.

    3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

    4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

    So in fact the 5th seal is the Destruction of The nations of Earth by the Most High


    Revelation Chapter 6-15-17


    And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

    16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

    17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  2. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    How does one compare or contrast this with "Jeremiah's" take on the four beasts and "Seven" seals?

    Jer 15:3
    And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the LORD: the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy.

    Jer 15:4
    And I will cause them to be removed into all kingdoms of the earth, because of Manasseh the son of Hezekiah king of Judah, for that which he did in Jerusalem.

    Jer 15:9
    She that hath borne seven languisheth: she hath given up the ghost; her sun is gone down while it was yet day: she hath been ashamed and confounded: and the residue of them will I deliver to the sword before their enemies, saith the LORD.


    Also, how does one compare or contrast this with

    Dan 7:3
    And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

    Dan 7:4
    The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings...

    Dan 7:5
    And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear... and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

    Dan 7:6
    After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard...

    Dan 7:7
    After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces...



    The four faces of each wheel...

    Eze 10:10
    And as for their appearances, they four had one likeness, as if a wheel had been in the midst of a wheel.

    Eze 10:14
    And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.

    Rev 4:7
    And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

    Revelations doesn't mention the same four faces, one of which was that of a cherub.

    The cherub (in Ezekiel) is referred to as or replaced with "a man" in Revelation... potentially different context or something else?


    What does the face of a cherub look like?


    Also, break down the 7th seal


    Rev 5:1
    And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

    Rev 5:2
    And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

    Rev 5:3
    And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

    Rev 5:4
    And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

    Who had the book in their hand, and what prevented them from opening it?
    Why was John crying because nobody could read or look at the book?​


    Rev 8:1
    And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

    • heaven went silent for about 30 minutes

    Rev 16:17
    And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

    The opening of the seventh seal brought forth 7 angels, each with trumpets

    1st trumpet: hail and fire mingled with blood
    2nd trumpet: volcanoes erupting burning the earth and turning the waters red with lava
    3rd trumpet: meteor called "Wormwood" causing destruction
    4th trumpet: lights within the sky/heavens would be partially covered
    5th trumpet: another meteor causing more destruction
    • from the dust of the meteors destruction that would penetrate so deep that it opened a bottomless pit, would rise horse shaped locust that had the face of a man and the hair of a woman, which were commanded not to eat the herbs of the earth but to sting like scorpions and attack people while wearing breastplates. The were commanded by the angel of the bottomless pit.

    6th trumpet: released the four bound angels from the river Euphrates
    • which brought forth two hundred thousand thousand (2 million) soldiers within 1 year, 1 month, 1 day, and 1 hour. They rode on horses within faces like lions in which fire and smoke proceeded out of their mouths.
    7th trumpet (loud voice): seven thunders occurred vocally, in which "John" was told not to write about


    Rev 10:7
    But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.



    Rev 12:6
    And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    • what happens after these 1,200 years and 60 days, relocate?

    Rev 12:14
    And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    Jer 49:22
    Behold, he shall come up and fly as the eagle, and spread his wings over Bozrah: and at that day shall the heart of the mighty men of Edom be as the heart of a woman in her pangs.




    Seeing how the Old Testament writings of Daniel, Ezekiel, and "Jeremiah" have similar visions, how does one isolate what they were dreaming about, even down to interpreting them into the paradigm of realism/reality?

    Are these congruent visions, or different accounts of different visions?
     
  3. TruthHitman

    TruthHitman Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    HELLO MY FRIEND TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION about JEREMIAH 15, IT IS A FUTURE PROPHECY CONCERNING THE SCATTERING OF THE HEBREWS INTO VARIOUS KINGDOMS THOSE KINGDOMS ARE MENTIONED BY DANIEL, HE CALLED THESE NATIONS 4 BEASTS OR 4 NATIONS THAT WOULD RULE THE EARTH AND OPPRESS THE HEBREWS TILL THE END OR CHRISTS RETURN.

    Your other question which is a good one "
    Seeing how the Old Testament writings of Daniel, Ezekiel, and "Jeremiah" have similar visions, how does one isolate what they were dreaming about, even down to interpreting them into the paradigm of realism/reality?

    Are these congruent visions, or different accounts of different visions?----UBnaturally

    Good question lets start with Daniel, the books of Daniel mainly deal with the future GENTILE nations that would rule earth (and oppress Israel) from the Babylonians to Rome and from Rome to Modern times, America etc.

    also the books of Jeremiah as well deal with the rise and fall and restoration of Israel and destruction of the Nations.

    Now Ezekiel is one of the toughest to understand no one on earth can decipher what a cherub is. Example

    Eze 10

    2 And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight.
    3 Now the cherubims stood on the right side of the house, when the man went in; and the cloud filled the inner court.

    The Man in linen is Christ, it is impossible (for now) to really understand what a Wheel is, its not a tire or some primitive wooden wheel I think it has to do with the Truth being taught correctly in the last days to bring fourth the restoration of Israel

    in Eze 10 verse 6 it reads "Take fire from between the wheels, from between the cherubims;"

    first in scripture FIRE is symbolic to the WORD OF GOD

    Jeremiah 23-29
    Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

    SHALAM!
     
  4. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Let's take this one at a time:

    First question from the last comment quoted: "Angels and God look like Men"

    Then the text goes on to describe the faces of animals, but supposedly these are not faces of animals?

    Is a "Cherub" not an "Angel", and if so, then explain this writing in Ezekiel:

    Eze 10:14
    And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle


    Notice, "first was the face of a cherub" ... "second was the face of a man"

    Is this not redundant if "cherub" is the same as an "Angel", and if "Angels" look like Men?​


    Now on to this...

    Dan 7:3
    And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

    The first was like a lion, a second, like to a bear... another, like a leopard... a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth

    Jer 15:3
    And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the LORD: the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy.


    Eze 10:14
    And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.

    Rev 4:7
    And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.


    Daniel 7...
    • Lion, Bear, Leopard, fourth beast with great iron teeth

    Jeremiah 15...
    • Beasts of the earth, Dogs, Swords, Fowls

    Ezekiel 1...
    • Lion, Man, Ox (calf), Eagle

    Ezekiel 10...
    • Lion, Man, Cherub, Eagle

    Revelation 4...
    • Lion, Man, Calf (ox), Eagle


    Are each of these "4 beasts" Angels?

    And if these are not all referring to the same thing, which has occurred and match the "4 beasts" to something relative to conclude that these are not the same predictions using different namings for the "beasts".
     
  5. TruthHitman

    TruthHitman Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

    The first was like a lion, a second, like to a bear... another, like a leopard... a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth


    And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the LORD: the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy.



    And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.


    And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.



    • Lion, Bear, Leopard, fourth beast with great iron teeth


    • Beasts of the earth, Dogs, Swords, Fowls


    • Lion, Man, Ox (calf), Eagle


    • Lion, Man, Cherub, Eagle


    • Lion, Man, Calf (ox), Eagle


    Are each of these "4 beasts" Angels?

    And if these are not all referring to the same thing, which has occurred and match the "4 beasts" to something relative to conclude that these are not the same predictions using different namings for the "beasts".[/QUOTE]

    Shalam I think I understand what your saying. Animal Symbolism is used to describe the attributes of God, Angels, Nations, I will give you an example:

    This scripture takes place during the Macabees. It describes an event that took place when Heliodorus went to Israel to cause trouble for the Hebrews, Angles stepped to him, this is what happened also notice how the angles are described

    2 Macabees 3-24-26
    Now as he was there present himself with his guard about the treasury, the Lord of spirits, and the Prince of all power, caused a great apparition, so that all that presumed to come in with him were astonished at the power of God, and fainted, and were sore afraid.

    25 For there appeared unto them an horse with a terrible rider upon him, and adorned with a very fair covering, and he ran fiercely, and smote at Heliodorus with his forefeet, and it seemed that he that sat upon the horse had complete harness of gold.

    26 Moreover two other young men appeared before him, notable in strength, excellent in beauty, and comely in apparel, who stood by him on either side; and scourged him continually, and gave him many sore stripes.

    Now UBnaturally did you read the description of the Angels
    The angels are described as looking just like men there are other examples as well such as Joshua 5-13-15 and Genesis 18-2

    Joshua 5-13-15
    And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
    14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?

    Genesis 18-2
    And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground.

    See in both scriptures Angels are always noted as being men not animals nor little gray men

    lets review:

    the angels have been described as looking like:

    1. Looking like young men
    2. Notable in strength
    3. Excellent in beauty
    4. and comely in apparel

    So when we read scriptures like Eze 1 -10 it says

    Ezekiel 1-5
    (Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man)

    Ezekiel 1-10 ( "As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.")

    He said likeness, meaning attributes like a lion, like an eagle So these angels that look like Men have characteristics resembling Lions, Eagle Etc

    1. Angels look like Young Men- Face of A man
    2. Face of a lion= Lions in the Bible represent power and strength
    (2 Macabees 3-26 "Notable in strength")
    3. Face of a Ox = Service to the most high
    (2 Macabees 3-24 Now as he was there present himself with his guard about the treasury, the Lord of spirits, and the Prince of all power, caused a great apparition, so that all that presumed to come in with him were astonished at the power of God, and fainted, and were sore afraid
    4. Face of a Eagle = Warriors, military might, swiftness, rising above
    (2 Macabees 3-26 and scourged him continually, and gave him many sore stripes.) Angels hand out judgement.

    UBnaturally when u read this respond and let me know if you understand this part first
     
  6. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Only saw one mention of an animal/beast in this, and someone was riding it.

    Not sure how this is a response to the question of if the other references of "4 beasts" were angels as well, and if so what did they represent... no need to add others that have other encoded meanings.

    Focusing on the "4 beasts"


    ?

    • "As for the likeness of their faces"

    • He said likeness, meaning attributes like a lion, like an eagle So these angels that look like Men have characteristics resembling Lions, Eagle Etc

    How does one get from the writings where it distinctly has "faces", to men having characteristics, that presumably exclude the faces of the animals mentioned?

    Is one suggesting that they did not have faces that looked like these creatures?


    Again, this would suggest that term "face" doesn't mean "face"

    So when one uses "Face of a man" in #1... that just mean's a man with characteristics of a man, because all of these are men correct?

    Go back to this...

    Face of a man - man with characteristics of a man
    Face of a lion - man with characteristics of a lion
    Face of an ox - man with characteristics of an ox
    Face of an eagle - man with characteristics of an eagle

    "4 Beasts are Angels"
    "Angels look like Young Men- Face of A man"

    If the 4 beasts are angels, and angels look like Young Men, then wouldn't all the 4 beasts have a "face of a man"?

    Confusing brother, very confusing.
    Help me to understand what the purpose of using the term "faces" is in the writings.
     
  7. TruthHitman

    TruthHitman Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Actually its just the symbolism thats confusing you once you understand biblical symbolism you will understand all scriputres

    Now UBNaturally the scripture in ALL cases describes Angels as looking like a Man and nothing else the Most high does not make Chimera looking beings thats an abomination

    It seems that your confused on the word FACE and the symbolic meaning of the word. lets go over it ok!

    Are you familiar with the Strongs concordance?

    In the strongs concordance look up Face which is called paniym it is a plural word and reflects the Hebraic sense of motion as the face reflects many different moods, emotions and thoughts. This Hebrew word can mean the face but also the "presence" or the "wholeness of being" of an individual.

    Look up Strongs Concordance FACE #6440

    So depending on the CONTEXT of the scripture the word "FACE" can mean "presence" example 1 Chronicles 12:8


    And of the Gadites there separated themselves unto David into the hold to the wilderness men of might, and men of war fit for the battle, that could handle shield and buckler, whose faces were like the faces of lions, and were as swift as the roes upon the mountains;

    See the Gadites had the FEARSOME Presence like a Lion and Fast like a Deer.

    The Gadites are Men who's presnece is like a LION

    Same with the Angels as well, hope that clears it up for you
     
  8. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    4 Beasts are Angels

    the scripture in ALL cases describes Angels as looking like a Man and nothing else

    1. Face of a Man = The Angels and God look like Men


    Eze 10:14
    And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.

    Rev 4:7
    And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

    Think I can see something now...
    This may have more to do with hierarchy, will look into this later though.


    The "Presence" - "Face of" aligns well, but there is still the matter of redundancy from what was stated

    Note all of ones comments at the top that are highlighted in colors.

    1. What is a cherub?
    2. Are Cherubim not Angels?
    3. What is the "Presence of a man" referring to, if the beasts (Which one has claimed to look like men) are Angels?
     
  9. TruthHitman

    TruthHitman Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Shalam! friend Actually we need too try too find out what a WHEEL is and a CHERUB and wings. I do not think Wings is referring to feathers or Leather bat wings.

    I f you have any scriptures or history on this subject let me know.

    Cherub seem like Angels they can talk

    Revelation 6 -1

    And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

    But also King David said that the Most high flys with these beings


    Psalms 18-10

    And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.

    hit me back if you find more answers
     
  10. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Seems like we are stuck here
    I too thought and considered a Cherub to be that of an Angel, but then you suggested that Angels look like men.

    Though in Eze 10:14 it is written in the description of a "cherub" and a "man" being of separate likenesses.

    Eze 10:14
    And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.


    Is one still suggesting that Angels look like men, if a cherub is an Angel?
     
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