Black Christians : Revelation 4:3

Discussion in 'Christian Study Group' started by cherryblossom, Jun 30, 2009.

  1. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    Rev.4

    [1] After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
    [2] And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
    [3] And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
    [4] And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
    [5] And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
    [6] And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
    [7] And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
    [8] And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
    [9] And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
    [10] The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
    [11] Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
     
  2. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa!

    cherryblossom,

    Bible study is something I take very serious. It is something I do from my heart. It is something God's Holy Ghost, which is to say Spirit, has given me to exercise in these latter days, hence some of us are latter rain teachers; and I am such a one.

    With that understanding, please begin doing some research on jasper and sardine stones, and please re-read the scripture in question, or simply explain to me what is your understanding. Keep in mind, I am very aware of your ability to gather information, I read a lot of your posts...Peace In.

     
  3. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa!




    cherryblossom,

    Is this your positon and do you agree with this information? So, before I get into providing this request, if this was intended for me: Please Read and Give Any Agreement or Correction.., where do you stand with this? A meaningful study consists of sharing personal points of view, even and especially when pursuing extra-bilblical, or so-called scholarly information, such as you have gathered.

    Again, I have agreed to make myself available for this study on Wednesday's.

     
  4. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa!




    cherryblossom,

    Not so quick, none of what I posted to you has been responded to, for ready reference, please address these concerns:

    Is this your positon and do you agree with this information? So, before I get into providing this request, if this was intended for me: Please Read and Give Any Agreement or Correction.., where do you stand with this? A meaningful study consists of sharing personal points of view, even and especially when pursuing extra-bilblical, or so-called scholarly information, such as you have gathered.


     
  5. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    Just disregard this thread, Bro. Clyde.


    No questions need be addressed.


    Peace in, for real.
     
  6. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa!




    Not a problem cherryblossom, no not at all.


     
  7. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa!




    cherryblossom,

    As promised, here is my critique of the essay by:

    Philologos
    Bible Prophecy Research
    Title: "...Like a Jasper and Sardine Stone..."
    Submitted by: [email protected]
    Date: November 28, 1997



    Western philologists, in their love for studying and learning written words and texts for a determination of authenticity, have fortunately classified Hebrew as an African/Edenic language and part of the family of languages, yet, in this essay, there is no mention of the significance carried with the breastplate stones being the precious stones of Africa. These precious stones--diamonds, sapphires, jasper, onyx, topaz, etc…remain in abundance on the African continent today.

    Moreover, it is strange to read these statements, Revelation 4 speaks first of the Jasper stone--the clear white stone of Benjamin, and this, They looked beyond that and saw the Jasper, the clear white stone representing His power and His rule at His second coming to set up the kingdom, entrenched as they are in symbolism, compared to the simple context within the scripture itself. In my view, it is pure eisegesis over exegesis, which is to say, adding to the text.

    We can draw no more from the text than what is written, which is that John was attempting to give the reader some idea of the colors involved within the vision. Rather than the stones changing colors, we have in this essay a mere symbolical inference, which really only distorts the text. For example, if there is a biblical reference, which goes to the clear white stone of Benjamin, I am unaware of it and stand corrected. So, to correlate the twelfth stone, jasper, with the last child of Isaac, Benjamin, is the distortion when in fact, the stone’s appearance never changes from its true color(s). Here is what I imagine the color of jasper in Rev. 4: 3 to be…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasper

    On the color of the sardine stone: http://www.keyway.ca/htm2003/20030930.htm

    When looking at the text, Rev. 4: 3, John says this: And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone, and this, and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

    Rightly or wrongly, I can only combine the colors of these two stones together for a perception of what the author conveyed the one sat on the throne looked liked. And this is based upon the phrase, in sight, which allows me to use colors; anything outside of this simple outlook is extreme, in my opinion. On the color of emeralds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_(color)#Emerald


     
  8. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    Thank you, Bro Clyde for your response.

    I will digest this at another time and get back with you.
     
  9. Chevron Dove

    Chevron Dove Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The Reason for the Season!

    *******THE REASON FOR THE SEASON*******
    *******THE REASON FOR THE SEASON*******

    For at least the past six months, I've been trying to sit down and write about REVELATION 4:3 but just have not been able to get around to it. I've read the previous links on this post. And would like to respond a little.

    I've done much research on the stones on 'Aaron's Breastplate', or the prophets description of the stones and of 'the description of the 12-gates and foundation of the New land [heaven] in REVELATIONS and compared this with many other of today's description of stones in reference to Geology and etc. I saw the source offered about 'Jasper' on wikipedia and here is my response:

    After 1865, the adversary came up with 'the theory of Evolution' in order to combat the now 'mis-educated' Blacks as a result of hundreds of years of slave yard teachings and continued to 'bar' us from the true facts about history, science, language arts and etc. Most gemstones are also 'mis-defined' so that the actual truth about 'RAW GEMSTONES' cannont be completely understood. JASPER is not all of the colors stated in wikipedia nor is is 'a white stone'. THE WHITE STONE is alread apart of the twelve stones on Aarons Breastplate! I can't remember which one because I don't have my note ready but, the whtie gemstone is referenced and detailed very well.

    The Gemstone 'JASPER' is 'A GREEN GEMSTONE' in it raw and abundancy found in the earth and not only in African but other places on the planet earth as well. Just like the 'EMERALD' bow around the throne of God, 'the color green' is not 'a pure color' but, it is a mixture of 'BLUE AND YELLOW'. Therefore, JASPER is a different type of GREEN based upon where it is found in the earth as opposed to EMERALD. More specifically, JASPER is a 'BLUE-GREEN COLOR' for example like a 'TURQUOISE'!!! It is the reason behind the ancient Egyptians depiction of their Osiris! And, it is the obsession behind the 'blue' and 'blue-green' stones found in the Sinai Peninsula and elsewhere in that region of the world and far away in the Southwestern world of North America.

    SARDIUS is a stone that has been extracted from a banded 'THE SARDONYX STONE' found in a certain layer of the earth. This stone comes multi-banded because of the type of science behind where it is found naturally in the earth. But yes, 'SARDIUS' is 'RED'.

    GREEN is the color of life and the EMERALD gemstone was very understood by ancient Black people and that is why 'green' is the major color of all African flags!!! It means that ancient Black people connected to God the Creator.

    The Jasper-and-Sardius stone are mentioned by John-the-Revelator and very well understood by the adversary. That is major reason why the colors of the 'CHRISTMAS THEME' is 'RED-AND-GREEN'!!! It is 'the reason for the season'. There is much more to this story! But here is a start!
     
  10. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    :hi: Bro. Chevron!

    I am so glad you entered this discussion, the more the merrier! I'm just gonna give some background first...

    This thread discussion originated in the "Color Of The Cross" thread, and this particular bible verse was referenced by Bro. Clyde in another thread titled "Jesus' Feet Like Burned Brass."

    Now, if you didn't already know, as a Christian and Bible believer and defender, Bro. Clyde staunchly presents/defends that many peoples in the Bible and Jesus was a man of color and not White as the Europeans have misrepresented his portrayal and twisted God's word against people of color, specifically those of African descent. ----He is also a published author on this subject, "Does Color Matter? Only When Misrepresented!: The Bible depicts the Colors of Man and Consequences of false Representation."
    ----Now, I'm not "plugging" his book cuz I haven't even read it yet, myself. However, I mention it to present his firm stance on the Color Of Jesus.

    With that said, IMO, the essay I posted, Bro. Clyde and you ALL appear to agree that the "SARDINE" is RED.

    However, yes, "JASPER" can be found in a numbers of colors: RED, BROWN, YELLOW, GREEN, BLUE and, possibly, even WHITE. From what I have read about the stone, its color is dependent upon where it is found because it takes its color from the sediment its in.

    But, in conjunction with Rev. 4:3 which refers to "HE WHO SAT UPON THE THRONE," it describes that PERSON as looking like a "Jasper" AND a "Sardine" stone.-----So, since the verse is talking about a PERSON, IMO, the COLOR of those 2 stones would be of hues applicable to a PERSON. ---I don't think "HE WHO SAT UPON THE THRONE" was RED (Sardine) and WHITE (Jasper) neither does RED (Sardine) and GREEN (Jasper) go together when describing a PERSON.

    I would think that John is using 2 stones which were SIMILAR in color, NOT two different colors. I don't think that "HE WHO SAT UPON THE THRONE" was striped like a candy-cane (red&white) or looking like a Christmas tree (red&green)

    However, as for MAN'S invention of all things "Christmas," perhaps the RED and GREEN connection was connected to the mention of the "EMERALD" rainbow.

    Here are the stones listed on Aaron's Breastplate:

    EXODUS 28:

    [17] And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
    [18] And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
    [19] And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
    [20] And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.
    [21] And the stones shall be with the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet; every one with his name shall they be according to the twelve tribes.


    Moreover, I do find it interesting that John in Revelation 4:3 mentions the colors of stones: RED(Jasper/Sardine) and GREEN (Emerald)because from our elementary teachings of primary colors, RED and GREEN, mixed together, do make BROWN. ---Just a thought. :thinking:

    And I also find interesting your relation of GREEN to African flags and the connection of "blue-green" to Osiris.

    But, again, as for Revelation 4:3, I don't think John was describing "HE WHO SAT UPON THE THRONE" as looking like RED AND GREEN. I think he used the examples of SARDINE/SARDIUS (Red) and JASPER (either RED or BROWN) as 2 stones which were similar in color and applicable to skin color.
     
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