Black People : Resegregation movement? It's real...

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by NNQueen, Nov 4, 2003.

  1. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    May 17, 1954, in the case of Brown v. the Board of Education of Topeka, the U.S. Supreme Court ended federally-sanctioned racial segregation in the public schools by ruling unanimously that "separate educational facilities are inherently unequal." The Court overturned Plessy v. Ferguson (1896), which declared separate but equal facilities constitutional, but also provided the legal foundation of the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s.

    The 50th anniversary of the Brown Decision will be 'celebrated' in 2004. There's a long history of fighting for equal rights by African Americans that led up to the 1954 Court decision and it's worth taking time to read about it and to teach our children about it. As a result, schools and communities can no longer practice "legal" segregation although segregation to some extent, continues to exist today.

    Desegregation has had a major impact on this nation, but particularly on the African American community. In my personal view, its not all been positive or favorable. African Americans gave up a lot to gain so little. We still see strong evidence where racial groups submit to voluntary segregation simply because people feel more comfortable interacting with others like them. That will probably never change as long as racism continues to be practiced and allowed to thrive in this country.

    If you could turn back the hands of time, knowing what you know now, would you have been a supporter of desegregation or would you have taken the position and argued in favor of "separate but equal"?
     
  2. Regina

    Regina Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Separate but equal was never equal and never would have become equal.

    However, along with integration came the white flight to private schools and the beginning of the end of the cohesiveness of our communities.

    In Alabama where I grew up, as other parts of the south, the issue was more controversial.
     
  3. A007

    A007 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hello Queen, Good Question.

    I think I would HAVE supported desegregaton, but with stipulations. The problem has always been economic. I guarantee that if some those white children weren't allowed to take dollars away from public schools by migrating to private schools that the standard of education would have stayed the same and in some cases gotten better. However, those who had deep seeded hatred for us, simply picked up and moved their children to other 'more private' schools (if not completely private) and with it took the money for books, teachers, and outreach programs. So, the gains were for those of us who could AFFORD to go to those schools which were STILL basically segregated because of finances...i.e. to far to be bus or controlled by white money. And the result was temporary for those whom were forced to go to the bottom of the line 'white' shools because eventually they were just as 'unequal' as the black schools because of the lack of funding. So we should have not only been allowed to attend those schools that whites attended but also demanded that our schools be made more competitive by merging with financially superior schools which would have ensured that long term gains in education would have been possible rather than short term pacifirers that gave the appearance that things were going to be "equal".
     
  4. uzoka

    uzoka Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    And we need you, why?

    If I had it my way, blacks all over the world would have fought for the right to be considered equal on principle and once that was acheived, would have, of their own volition, become vehemently opposed to a mixing of their communities with that of others, in unofficial practice rather than official law, rather like the Unorthodoz Jews.

    Self organised, self financed and for the most part, self governed.

    It is how they [Jews] have been able to survive a world that wants them dead [Jewish conspiracy, hitler, the Roman Catholic Empire]
    The recalcitrant, insurgent, and revolutionary momentum and ideals of the sixties should have been maintained and intensified [regardless of the government's views and practises] with a view to advocating a return to an African way of doing things, or at least a way of doing things that enables Africans to finally concretize their unity and focus and hence, prosper in all areas of life, and forcefully draw the respect of other communties and their hesistancy to make enemies of us by depicting us as anything but a people of worth and potentially high standing in the media; this separatist philosophy which would not only have symbolically displayed a lack of trust of the European without ever having to utterone word to that effect, but would have prevented this white washing of the African conscience.

    Equal by law but separate by nature.

    Living amongst whites and adhering to the European perspective has done ab-so-lute-ly nothing for blacks in any way, shape or form, but perpetuate self denial, anger, a lack of self worth....ah you know the rest so I don't have to list them for you....they are [not for want of a better term] a pain in the proverbial arse and are best kept away from, except in business...then again, if Africans were completely in charge of African mineral wealth [and that would have come about already had the officially sanctioned ill treatment of blacks continued or had blacks continued the push beyond civil rights, hence why blacks were given anything at all and revolutionary organizations were smashed] Europeans wouldn't have anything we'd need...maybe some technical expertise, not that African's are, or would have been short on that and as far as I'm concerned, there is nothing of their culture that is useful to Africans...I always find even the most seemingly innocent of things [if you do not look beyond the surface] within their culture to be offensive.

    The 'Lord of the Rings' trilogy of films and the books by Tolkien, I find very offensive to people of dark skin.
    Everything noble, good and just is anglo saxon white and incedently, residing in the 'West' and everything evil, black and dark [including the men who side with the Dark Lord, Sauron] is in the [middle] East....pfft, utter bilge.

    Harmony of races, in that they truely accept our dignity and rights and thus, leave us the heck alone? yes.
    The races mixing, physically sexually, socially etc?, no, because with whites, there is always an ulterior motive.

    BTW....I until, very recently used to be of the opinion that it was ok to mix with whites socially [not sexually, ie nightlife] but I must withdraw any statements I've made here to that effect...I strongly oppose any 'mixing' outside the realms of business and work.

    Peace
     
  5. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Uzoka, in your opinion, do you see a distinction between the approach that the Black Panther Party and Malcolm X took during the 1960s versus the principles that Dr. Martin Luther King espoused and can that be tied to how the end result of desegregation affected the African American community?

    For Blacks to achieve "equal" rights in the U.S., what's the most important thing that has to happen, in your opinion? Does the definition of "equal" only apply to material or tangible items, i.e., books, school buildings, where we live or work? If not, how can "equal" be measured otherwise?

    There's a belief among some people that a person's attitude can't be changed by anyone else, but their behavior can. Because racism is institutionalized in the U.S. which results in not only how one thinks but also how one behaves, can a racist system and 'equality and justice for all' co-exist in the same domain?
     
  6. uzoka

    uzoka Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I see a common thread running through the three that can be tied in with desegregation's end results which is that they were killed, or the like...they [effective and capable, practical black leadership] were shut down.

    I also do note that the European view of women seemed to have been prevalent in some of these movements, that is the one of the subjugated woman, or insistence that black women deny the fact that they are women in favour of black issues and that can be seen to have had an influence on present day interaction between black men and women or at least, it did nothing to help in that regard and it is an issue that should have been incorporated into the struggle, not to mention, now that I think of it, homosexuality as it relates to blacks.

    Thus black women today are still seen by black men through European eyes, that is women are the property of men and must fall in line with their wishes, despite having proved the contrary over and over throughout Africa's history and that of the diaspora.

    And it is the preferred thing in the black community, for the most part, that homosexuals are not seen at all, or at least not given a wholehearted warm welcome, hmm writing this is making me realise what a mistake I've been making.
    Taking about unity yet being of the opinion that homosexuals should be quiet and focus on black issues.
    To be free as a people, all of us have to be free individually, or we're no better than the oppressor and therefore do not derserve to be free of him, we become merely the unfortunate and defeated divided sore losers in a world where dominance and submission [and not equality] are the only acceptable realities; that we, on some level advocate, as opposed to being the unified victims of extreme injustice and therefore the rightful claimants to restoration and retribution in the from of satisfactory reparations.

    True revolution must fully incorporate all aspects of the African experience and like it or not, homosexuality is one of them.

    I don't care what traditionally was the case back in Africa so many whatever years ago...the fact is they exist today and to push them to the sidelines or deny their humanity a full range of expression is to be a hypocrite and pseudo-revolutionary.

    To be fair, Dr King et al were affected by a world in which they lived at the time, and so are we but the nature of revolution is to resist and rebel against the world in which you live to affect change.

    Then you have the Panther's and their anti drug stand, teaching the youth, who at the time, were influenced by the BPP, to stay away from the use and selling of drugs which if continued would have made a great difference where present day black drug culture is concerned.

    Another point I'd like to make, that is a continuation of my open remarks, is that although their philosophies differed quite drastically from Dr King's [although Malcom later modified his view that all whites are devils after his trip to Mecca] the results and motives were the same, a push for an improvement in black conditions in America, politically and socially and an increase in black awareness and an end to white supremacy; had they been allowed to continue, there would have eventually come about a strong linking of the civil rights movement in the US with an Africa 10 or so years emerged from colonial domination and in real danger of being snatched from European jaws.

    The common denominator here is Europeans, and their fear of a mobilised, globally united and focused black people, because the prize is Africa and she rightfully belongs to us.

    They know this and will attempt to stamp out any politically strong black voices that threaten or the status quo by being capable of bringing about that focus and unity, or at least waking up a great majority to action, hence for example, why the West is complaining about Robert Mugabe, same thing....land in the hands of the people of Zimbabwe is wealth, is power, is real freedom.
    Blacks united in America and inspiring blacks elsewhere, focused and effecting real change, is power, is wealth, is true freedom.

    The BPP, under the leadership of Newton et al had the ability to mobilise and strengthen blacks in America and act as an inspiration to others,
    For instance, even today, you have the Dalit Panthers of India fighting oppression within the Hindu caste system.

    The Black Panthers were subjected to COINTELPRO,begun in 1967 to do away with 'black extremists' but begun in 1956 against The Communist Party, USA.

    Dr King was shadowed and put under surveillance, the Pentagon regarding him a communist and a danger to the US government, describing him as, "a devastating civil disturbance whose sole purpose is to shut down the United States government", and the day he was killed, soldiers from an Operation Detachment Alpha team were also in Memphis where he was killed on an 'unknown mission'.

    There are some that are of the belief that the FBI had something do with Malcom's death.
    Four days after the assassination of Malcom X, the FBI removed him from their Security Index.
    One FBI agent described the murder as something of a model for "successful" counterintelligence operations.

    So basically, from my point of view, it does not matter which of the two types of protest is utilised, violent [if need be, as in self defense] or non-violent, the result, if it affects white hegemonic national global rule, will be the same, whites will protect what they consider to be theirs by birthright or right of conquest, by any means necessary, those means being threats, violence, intrigue, forgery, espionage, misrepresentation etc

    The end result?... ineffectual black leadership [the effective having been done away with in one way or another], a lack of black unity, and a lack of black controlled economical and political power, the bottom line result of desgregation.

    Each type of movement had its good points and made for many [allowed] changes and each had to be destroyed because each had the potential to go all the way.

    My humble opinion.


    Africa must be governed by Africans who work in the interests of Africans the world over, using the vast mineral wealth of Africa.

    In this world, money talks and gets you respect [a respect that is not given willingly but that's the best we can hope for] and if the vast mineral wealth of Africa [something like 60% of the world's resources come from Africa and 100% of the world space age materials...without Africa, there is no NASA] it wouldn't matter what whites think, we'd be free to set the course in our own lives.

    I believe the key is Africa, whites will never change, and anyone who hopes that they will because all humans have something inherently good in them is fooling themselves, they also have something inherently evil and it's our job on this earth to make a choice as to which of the two will prevail.
    Greed etc tend to make the choice for you if you're not careful.


    No, IMO, the true definition of 'equal' as it applies to racial equality would extend to the intanglible as well, the most important of these being people's minds since this is what affects their behaviour in doing such things as releasing disease in Africa so as to keep the workforce weak and ineffectual [the average lifespan in Africa is now 29] and reduce the total population so as to free up mineral resources for 'better use'.

    This is what they think of you and you living in the USA or wherever will not protect you for much longer.

    Having book, school buildings etc is all nice and good but if you ever try to truely break free using what those books and school give you, you'll find yourself in the situation people such as Assata found/find themselves in.
    The best type of equality we can look forward to is amongst whites is exactly what we have now, this is as good as it gets and it will get alot worse if we don't get moving on something.


    .

    No, just something that, on the surface, resembles equality but too often shows its true nature because it is not heartfelt by the masses, it is law but it is not nature.

    It is just a way of keeping us sedately docile.

    Sure, some whites may truely believe in equality but the majority don't and certainly, those behind the scenes do not and abhor even this counterfeit equality we live under today.

    True equality, we will only receive in our land amongst our peoples and even then we will have to put up with whites [Europe and the US] attempting to destabilise, corrupt, or even use disease as they have done already and as the emerging evidence suggests...hence why there will be a need for absolute transparency along with constant checks and balances at all levels and in all areas of government and concrete national security measures taken.

    Hope I've answered your questions to your satisfaction.


    Peace and health......
     
  7. im_the_truth

    im_the_truth Banned MEMBER

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    I'm not that old...

    so I always believed in segregation, every neighborhood I've ever lived in has be segregated. Voluntarily by whites and not by black, the same reason black and white are seperated now is the same as past time. Because of the assimulation of white supremacy into the minds of Africans desegregation kills us.
     
  8. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    "Re-segregation" has been the norm for a long time.

    Across this nation, children who live on the same street but on opposite sides are bused to different schools. They may attend elementary together but by the time they get to middle school and high school, because of re-districting, they are sent to different schools and they live right across the street from each other...odd/even addresses.


    Just recently, Jesse Jackson spoke of this in Chicago stemming from the death of Derrion Albert......There is a high school right down the street from the very area where those children are bused miles away to another school.

    This is another example of why we need to get involved in our communities, go to city council meetings, PTA meetings, etc... We need to put the pressure on our local government officials to address our needs on a consistent basis and not just at election time.
     
  9. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    "We should not worry about this, after thes speech Obama made to the Black community before the election, everything is already taken care of"
     
  10. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

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    "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,938818,00.html
     
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