Black People : Rep. Ron Paul says lincoln didnt care for the slaves

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by torch, Apr 3, 2007.

  1. torch

    torch Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    http://youtube.com/watch?v=xo6KIusCBoU

    Though Ron Paul is a white man.....I do agree with him on few things..especially what he said about the cia and the government and about the civil war...yet people like bill maher says the civil war was fought over slaves when it wasnt thats common knowledge...
     
  2. MarchoftheLions

    MarchoftheLions Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hmmm, seems like a decent enough guy lol. He may get my vote...after further study ofcourse.
     
  3. OmowaleX

    OmowaleX Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The civil war was all about EXPANDING the "Union" into the Confederate states and Indian Territory.

    ALL of the major Union generals, beginning with Grant, ALL were slave owners and the Emancipation Proclamation did NOT free the slaves who were in Union territory.
     
  4. I-khan

    I-khan Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    that is all their really is to it...resources of the west means more power for the powerfull...

    I see something similiar in the era of the civil rights movement in which the USA did not want to turn assets into liabilites without jeprodizing their own power structure...

    I read in another forum,from an allegedly 'educated' black man, that the BPP was responsible for the destruction of the black culture in aztlan and the "radicalization" of the Civil rights movement(as if it was monolithic to begin with) which also led to some breakdowns in other areas.....that to me does not make much sense since it has its basis on the romantic view (ie the view played by the media/government) of the Civil rights and does not consider varying dynamics....it seems to me that many of our own do not know that when we deal with 'others' we have to think like them....we forget that if we 'give them a foot they will take a mile'.... either way i would like to know your view on such a thing aformentioned since you lived it and the 'educated' guy heard about it.
     
  5. OmowaleX

    OmowaleX Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Well brother I-khan, I am 49 and the BPP were like my older "Brothers" but I was too young for membership while they were in their prime. However, I did organizaing with former Panthers in several organizations-Coalition Against Police Abuse (CAPA), Black United front-Los Angeles (BUFLA), AAPRP, NBIPP, Free South Africa Movement (FSAM).

    I can not blame the Panthers for the "destruction" of Black Culture, even though they were not part of the Black Arts Movement, they were an integral part of the Black Power Movement. I think those who accuse them with the destruction of Black "culture" are those who the BPP would have considered "Cultural Nationalists".

    So again, we have here the revolutionary nationalist vs cultural nationalist dichotomy.

    Brother Old Soul would be a more authoritative person to ask about this one.

    By comparson, I liken this argument to the one that says NWA "destroyed" hip hop when NWA hit the scene in 1986-87, and the "Golden Age followed from 1988-92, which included some of Public Enemy, Ice Cube's and Tupac's most "revolutionary" work.

    Let's keep in mind that before the BPP most Black folks did not even refer to themselves as Black. The BPP heavily influenced the development of Black CONSCIOUSNESS, along with a radical "class consciousness".
     
  6. I-khan

    I-khan Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    thanx for the insight bruh,mcuh appreciated.
     
  7. I-khan

    I-khan Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    this is what struck me in particular....it seems to have a long history that I am researching.
     
  8. OmowaleX

    OmowaleX Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Yeah...a very long history.

    Washington vs DuBois
    DuBois vs Garvey
    Panthers vs US


    A very detailed boOk on this subject (If you can find it) is RETREAT TO THE GHETTO:THE END OF A DREAM? by THOMAS L. BLAIR. Published in 1977.

    In the chapter THE ECLIPSE OF INTERGRATION, he explains how Stokely Carmichael's trip to Africa, "Offered, he says, new images of black culture nd history and attractive models of ideology and action in the international power struggle."

    Blair also speaks how this "internationalist" perspective was influenced by the trip of several SNCC members to Puerto Rico.

    Remeber, brother Malcolm had taught about the need to "internationalise the struggle", and the BPP was influenced by the Puerto Rican YOUNG LORDS.

    Furthermore, SNCC also had come into ideological difference with CORE, and this struggle ws heightened by a tendency of anti-Vietnam war protestors to link the anti-colonial struggle of the Vietnamese people with tht of the Black Liberation Movement. The BPP took this further with their support of Fidel Castro and the Cuban revolution, but also for voicing support for Frantz Fanon and the Algerian revolution, as well as support for Che Guevara and Regis Debray.
     
  9. kemetkind

    kemetkind Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Couple key points.

    1) A miniscule percentage of the slaves lived in "union" states at the outset of the war

    2) The emancipation proclamation didn't free nothern slaves but led to the 13th amendment which did

    3) The context leading up to the civil war had two clear sides

    side A- the whigs-->republicans-->Lincoln...did not want to allow the EXPANSION of slavery into any new territories or states.

    side B- the southern white democrats--->slave holding indians--->jeff davis....wanted to EXPAND slavery into new territories.

    Side A was willing to go to war to force Side B to follow the laws enacted by the nation.

    Side B was willing to go to war to not have to follow those laws, and to preserve their right to expand slavery.


    It is absolutely amazing to see this black support of the confederacy when the historical is clear on this.

    I've READ about black people who claim because of their white ancestry they are "sons of the confederacy"...they attend confederate civil war re-enactments and proudly display the confederate flag.

    Since I do not have such ancestry I can't speak to how they feel, but from the outside, they look mighty confused.
     
  10. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    1. My arguments presented here and in other posts do NOT amount to "black support of the confederacy" as you alledge, but to make clear that the Civil War was not fought by the "Union" to FREE Black people. Their motives were to PRESERVE WHITE SUPREMACY, and to expand the Northern industrial base of capitalism.

    2. Not all Blacks were "slaves" at the outbreak of the war, and there were Union officers who lived in southern states such as Louisiana, and SOME Union officers were slaveowners. I am not going to be one to attempt to deny that they were slave owners and did NOT have Black peoples interests at heart. You can as you will. Miniscule numbers, or not, the fact remains, they did NOT fight the war to FREE Black people.

    3. Since I do NOT make any claims to be a "son of the confederacy" I view your mention of this in response as an underhanded attempt to twist my statements to fit your misconception.

    Interesting how you continually attempt to criticize others for name calling yet you treat certain members as the "enemy" just without OPENLY stating such, even though this you do in a sneaky manner.

    As far as looking "confused" is concerned, well....I have spoken not of "white ancestry" in this situation, not even close....but of the experience of the FREE BLACK OFFICERS in the Louisiana Native Guard, and their treatment by the white Union officers.

    This is an aspect of the Black experience that is hidden so as to continue the perpetuation of the lies epoused by the republicans concerning them being the "anti-slavery" party.

    Now if I was to speak of my "ancestry" and their participation in the civil war, both black or white, in one family (DEMERY) out of 17 civil war veterans, 12 fought for the union, and 5 for the confederacy.

    What's funny to me is your mention of other folks "ancestry" which makes me wonder if you even KNOW for sure who your ancestors are.

    At least I have taken the time to research my family "history", and am able to shoot holes through various lies and myths created by white supremacists to keep black folks in mental servitude and supporting their various political parties with a faith in the colonial government.


    A lot of Black folks are in denial of any white or native ancestry, but the fact is from the earliest colonial period Africans miscenated FREELY until 1690 with whites and natives, and after that period, miscegenation continued.

    By the way, I agree that NO, "Lincoln didnt care for the slaves."....No more than Thomas Jefferson did for the kids he fathered by Sally Hemings.
     
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