Black Spirituality Religion : Religious Diversity and Afrikan Input

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Blackbird, Jun 18, 2004.

  1. Blackbird

    Blackbird Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    To clarify my position:

    Joyce,

    Unfortunately, Christianity doesn't afford the right to differing traditions the knowledge and reverence of God as it's doctrine deems it the only true path to the Creator. However, this statement may not be true. The path I follow has an expressed declaration of God, whom is sometimes called Olorun. Olorun is the Supreme Essence and Source of All - things and beings. Olorun is Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipotent, ever mindful of the actions of the universe. Being the Source of All, Olorun has no beginning or ending; no personality or gender. Olorun is the Alpha and Omega, the First Cause, Yin and Yang. Olorun permeates all things because of ase. Olorun is the Originating life-force, the Generative Energy.

    You said I've turned my back on God. No, as Brother Sekhemu pointed out, I just don't subscribe to the Christian definition of God, but whoever said that Christians have a monopoly on the Supreme Essence. Personally, I believe for anyone to assert this claim they are only engaging in theological ego-centrism. It's similar in logic to someone saying the only way to write is with the right hand and if someone writes with their left hand, because they are left-handed, they are inherently wrong. What nonsense! The world is diverse, populated with diverse people with differing interpretations of reality and what's real.

    I haven't turned my back on God no more than you have. You have your way of serving God. What I've done is chose another way to the same. You support your position with quotes from your Bible and that's good for you. Just respect my right to my own opinion. Just like you have your Bible, I have my own set of teachings to support and validate my position.

    Maybe I stepped on some toes with some of my comments and questions, but they were said to gauge your own opinion. In all truth, I posted certain things in the name of research and correspondences. My intention was not to inflame emotions, but to give an Afrikan Traditional analysis of the Biblical Saga based on my own knowledge of Afrikan traditions. If I did a disservice, I apologize and purposely, extend the olive branch. I am in the pursuit of knowledge, truth and light and towards the aim of that endeavor, nothing becomes a "sacred cow." Perhaps, your attachment to your beliefs do not allow critique as it seems as an attack. I am a scholar-researcher, as well as, a soon-to-be fully initiated priest. I do not recant my position, but humbly, in the spirit of peace, commit these words to post. I have my religion and I am not seeking in the area. Like you, I have my testimony of how my belief system has enhanced and inspired my life and purpose for being. With love....

    Ase,
    Blackbird (child of the orisa and vodun)
     
  2. PurpleMoons

    PurpleMoons Administrator STAFF

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    :wave: Hello Brother Blackbird!

    I would like to say that I really
    enjoy reading your post. I look
    for your name as well as a few
    other's here.

    However, post titles that encludes
    members name are not allowed. It
    takes the focus off the topic and
    puts it on the individual!

    Please edit the name in your title!

    Thank you!
     
  3. Pharaoh Jahil

    Pharaoh Jahil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Right on brotha....

    Thank you for sharing this....so much truth...... See my thread "Jesus speaks on the Unity of Allah to the Hindus". I think you would enjoy.
     
  4. Joyce

    Joyce Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Blackbird,

    Is this why you told me to come over here. If you want to address me on your stand, you don't have to start a new thread to do it. Trust me when I say there is no need for you and I to go head to head on this. I respect your stand. You asked me a question over on another thread and obviously you didn't like my answer and told me to come over here. Why do you keep pursuing me about this. I thought we had resolved all of this. I don't mind you asking questions and all and I don't mind answering them. But I have told you in the past, just 3 days ago, that I don't like a contentious spirit. Yet, I still sense contention. Don't make me confront you in front of everybody here. It seems you insist on making me look like a religious villian of some kind and I'm not gonna let you do that...more over, you know I'm not gonna let you do that. Thus, you keep contending with me. What makes you think that you will be seen as the poor little soul whom Joyce keeps beating up on. Mind you, this tactic could backfire on you, because those who know me, know I don't operate like that.

    Are you sure you want to continue this course. I thought we had come to an understanding at This Post
     
  5. Joyce

    Joyce Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Blackbird said:Maybe I stepped on some toes with some of my comments and questions, but they were said to gauge your own opinion. In all truth, I posted certain things in the name of research and correspondences. My intention was not to inflame emotions, but to give an Afrikan Traditional analysis of the Biblical Saga based on my own knowledge of Afrikan traditions. If I did a disservice, I apologize and purposely, extend the olive branch. I am in the pursuit of knowledge, truth and light and towards the aim of that endeavor, nothing becomes a "sacred cow." Perhaps, your attachment to your beliefs do not allow critique as it seems as an attack. I am a scholar-researcher, as well as, a soon-to-be fully initiated priest. I do not recant my position, but humbly, in the spirit of peace, commit these words to post. I have my religion and I am not seeking in the area. Like you, I have my testimony of how my belief system has enhanced and inspired my life and purpose for being. With love....

    Ase,
    Blackbird (child of the orisa and vodun)



    I already know what you believe and where you stand. Why do you keep repeating yourself?

    Blackbird said: You said I've turned my back on God. No, as Brother Sekhemu pointed out, I just don't subscribe to the Christian definition of God, but whoever said that Christians have a monopoly on the Supreme Essence.

    You should never subscribe to anyone's definition of God. I don't either. I look to whom God says He is...

    5I am the LORD, and there is no other;
    There is no God besides Me.
    I will gird you, though you have not known Me,
    6That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting
    That there is none besides Me.
    I am the LORD, and there is no other;


    More...

    Isaiah 44
    7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
    8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
    9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.




    Thus, Blackbird, I stand in spiritual agreement with these very words of scripture here:

    Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.

    You have implied that you serve the same God that I do, but I am confused about that, for if we serve the same God, why do you seem to be so angry with Him in the bible? I have read the things you have said. God is God...love Him or hate Him, but He changes NOT.


    5"To whom will you liken Me, and make Me equal
    And compare Me, that we should be alike?
    6They lavish gold out of the bag,
    And weigh silver on the scales;
    They hire a goldsmith, and he makes it a god;
    They prostrate themselves, yes, they worship.
    7They bear it on the shoulder, they carry it
    And set it in its place, and it stands;
    From its place it shall not move.
    Though one cries out to it, yet it cannot answer
    Nor save him out of his trouble.


    8"Remember this, and show yourselves men;
    Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
    9Remember the former things of old,
    For I am God, and there is no other;
    I am God, and there is none like Me,
    10Declaring the end from the beginning,
    And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
    Saying, "My counsel shall stand,
    And I will do all My pleasure,'
     
  6. Blackbird

    Blackbird Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Joyce,

    No, we never came to an understanding. You kept saying I turned my back on God and other such things. Even your prayer was veiled. There was no understanding. I pray to God also. Thank you. I love you as well and I respect you and your stand.

    Blackbird
     
  7. Joyce

    Joyce Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Let this be our final understanding my brotha:

    We will continue as always to post to each other, for I enjoy dialoguing with you. Let this be our understanding though. I will not convince you that the God in the bible is the ONLY true and living God and you definitely won't be able to convince me that He isn't.

    As for any questions you may have, please continue to ask, but just know that when you even think about responding to anything I say...don't respond if you don't want to hear what I have to say, because I speak from a position of strength and truth. I am not intimidated by no amount of man's wisdom or complex theories. I am rooted in the power and simplicity of God Himself and I will not be shaken by dark teachings or man's philosophies.

    ~j
     
  8. Blackbird

    Blackbird Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Joyce,

    You wrote: "You should never subscribe to anyone's definition of God. I don't either. I look to whom God says He is..."

    Has God revealed Himself/Herself/Itself to you as a male being only? Why use a book to base your definition of God on? Oh, I know because you believe it is the word of God. Why is that? Why not the Tao te ching? How about the Per Em Heru? Aren't they the word of God too?

    You wrote: "You have implied that you serve the same God that I do, but I am confused about that, for if we serve the same God, why do you seem to be so angry with Him in the bible? I have read the things you have said. God is God...love Him or hate Him, but He changes NOT."

    The Bible is used as research for me to understand the cultural nature and orientation of the ancient Hebrews. I was giving an Africentric critique of the Bible. I understand the Bible possessing two demiurges, which from an Afrikan traditional perspective, corresponds to the characteristics of two orisa: Shango and Obatala. The Source of Creation, yes, never changes, but the cultic affiliations and their rise to dominance of various periods does.

    Blackbird
     
  9. Joyce

    Joyce Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Blackbird...your contention is showing again. I have told you about asking so many questions at one time. It makes me sense anger or frustration toward me. Thus, I will only answer ONE of your questions per post. Let me pick the most interesting one to me...

    You said:Why use a book to base your definition of God on?

    I never said, that this is MY definition of God. I agree with the definition though. And yes, I base my faith on this "book". But even more so, I know that He is the true and living God, just by the way He stirs Himself in me. Just by the way, He reveals Himself in me. The bible is my guidebook...His love letters. But the essence of who He is, is confirmed in so many more ways than...a book. That "book" is only further confirmation of who He is.

    Maybe, I shouldn't use a book (assuming you are referring to the bible) to base my faith in God on. What should I base a definition of God on if not the bible??? Please answer me.
     
  10. Joyce

    Joyce Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You said: Why not the Tao te ching? How about the Per Em Heru? Aren't they the word of God too?

    Joyce: For me, the Bible is conclusive and I have no need of Per Em Heru or Tao Ching or Ying and Yang either.
     
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