Black Spirituality Religion : Religion & Gender

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Dual Karnayn, Dec 3, 2005.

  1. Dual Karnayn

    Dual Karnayn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    It seems to me that atleast in the Black community.....

    Most women seem to be more attracted to and find more personal salvation in Christianity; while Islam and various off-shoots seem to be more attractive to the men.

    It also seems that women tend to be more inclined towards abstract spirituality; while most men are either religiously dogmatic (strict on laws and codes) or void of religion all together.

    This is something I've noticed for a while.
     
  2. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Your ohservations are on target. It's not really hard to see why this is so.

    For one thing the brand of christianity taught in the Black church is the same one the white man gave his slaves. Emphasis is placed on submission, obedience, meekness (weakness) and a lack of trust in one's own abilities. Once a Black man becomes racially conscious such teachings become unacceptible. On the otherhand, a racially conscious sista is not necessarily a sexually conscious sista so it is still possible for a woman to be racially conscious and cling to a religious system which teaches her to be meek and submissive to men and God.

    Therefore while Islam affirms the manhood of a Black man it offers the Black woman an even stricter and less dignified role in her community than the church where she is at least given a route to power through submission = in other words she stoops to conquer.
    It is as far from the truth as one can get to think of African and Khemetic spirituality as being abstract and without codes of law and behavior. We have Maat: the 11 Laws of God, the Emeralk Tablets of Thoth. the Negative Confessions and the Metu Neter which are hardly abstract. Adherence to the laws of nature and morality are requisites for achieving spiritual growth. In fact, the sahu (person ruled by the flesh) cannot grow spiritually.

    Of course there will be people who just don't want to do right who will burn incense and recite mantras at the stroke of twelve thinking they can have the powers of Khemetic masters without bothering about morality. The same is true of the overtly religious. The human will is a separate entity from the systems we devise to control social behavior. All human beings have the potential and ability to live a moral life without any system at all but they won't do it. Why? Because they don't want to.
     
  3. Dual Karnayn

    Dual Karnayn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    River

    I think the MODERN Christian church gives women more power to express themselvse and gives them more important roles than the Masjid.
    But I wouldn't say those roles are more dignified.

    In my opinion (and it's just an opinion) the roles many of our sistaz are playing in the modern Black church are LESS dignified than what they are offered in Islam because it encourages them to act outside of their nature as women.

    Wearing suits, sweating, shouting, loud aggressive speach and behavior all all against the meek and modest nature of the female but the modern Black church seems to encourage this behavior among our women.

    Although the fewwer restrictions on speech and behavior make them feel empowered and freer.....the damage done to their image and psyche as well as the psyche of younger girls is considerable.



    Many of us make the mistake of trying to associate the various ancient Kemetic religions with the poutporri of various individual beliefs of some of our people...many which actually conflicts those Kemetic religions.

    I believe that at this point only the people of ancient Kemet had a clear understanding of what their beliefs and practices were while those of us today in the West thousands of years removed only have bits and pieces of censored and passed down information to go by.
    So it would be a mistake to believe we can practice what our ancestors in Kemet practiced.




    I was with you right up until you said we have the ability to live a moral life without any system.
    I can't say this is wrong but it's hard for me to grasp knowing and practicing morality without a structure or mearsure to go by.

    Where would we get our morality from without a system?
     
  4. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Well I'm talking about perception anyway and what christian women are led to believe they have = not what they actually have.
    Certainly there is nothing dignified about having to sneak up on power through dramatized meekness. Especially when the only power they have is the power to enforce the doctrines of the pastor and teach the younger sistas to suppress their thoughts.
    While some may be looking for a total reenactment of the Khemetian worldview exactly as it was five thuosand or so years ago, in my opinion it would be more beneficial and feasible to take what we can kknow of their spirituality and apply it to a framework that will work for us today. We need this alternative to the religions of the white races with which we were indoctrinated as slaves. You may or may not know that the Arabs enslaved us too yet you continue to cling to Islam for your own reasons. To each his own as long as the ultimate outcome is a strong and rightwous Black man and woman.
    Where did the system come from? From God? If he is the god of the entire universe then all men know right from wrong and all men can do what they know is right. The only thing stopping them is their will and thus far in history no system has been devised which is foolproof against man's desire to do wrong.

    You might ask about children who need to be taught right from wrong. Yet even an atheist teaches his child morality without the assistance of religion. Often children who have been raised in homes where morality was forced on them go crazy once they become adults and leave homeee - not because they no longer have a structure but because the external structure they grew up under in no way altered the will so even though theyi had learned right from wrong they did not know how to tap into the inner knowledge and wisdom by which the will is to be governed.
     
  5. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Who is "Us" and show us how

    "those of US today in the West thousands of years removed only have bits and pieces of censored and passed down information to go by. So it would be a mistake to believe WE can practice what our ancestors in Kemet practiced"

    Like sistah said, speak for yourself! Your comments would hold more weight if you actually had some experience as a member of an ATR.

    In short, are you prepared to show us that people like Ra Un Nefer Amen have been misleading black folk all this time? You'll need to show and prove that.

    What do you base these assertions on? Did you come to this conclusion by means of an oracle?
     
  6. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    My brotha Sek asks some powerful questions.
     
  7. Dual Karnayn

    Dual Karnayn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    River

    True.
    But just for the record I would like to state that not all pastors and Christians do this.
    However, too many have.



    I agree we can take certain beneficial aspects of these ancient practices and put them to use.
    But we shouldn't make the mistake of thinking we can actually practice those entire religions as they should be practiced here in the West thousands of years removed.




    I suppose it depends on which system we're talking about.
    Some systems are divine, others are man made.




    I disagree.
    Atheist cannot teach their children or anyone else about morality.
    The only thing they can do is REPEAT knowledge, principles, and values they've already picked up from those who BELIEVE in God and/or religion.

    Especially values and principles they've already seen in action and know are beneficial.

    But because they have no respect for the Author of those values and principles, their developement is arrested and their vision is limited. They don't see the wisdom behind those principles and because they couldn't explain them their children often grow up to abandon them.





    "Often" is the key word.
    They often go crazy and abandon what they were taught......

    Especially in a society where everything from the media to the public-educational system is doing it's best to tear children away from the moral values thier families and religious institutions are trying to instill in them.

    ....but this is not always or even usually the case historically speaking.
    Usually if you bend a tree in a certain direction while it's young and as it gets older it will strenthen in that direction.






    Sekhemu


    Obviously "us" is not YOU if what I wrote doesn't apply to you...lol.




    No, I'm not speaking for my self because I don't speak out of IGNORANCE.

    The religion that I claim to believe in can be documented and established.
    I don't run around calling myself an "initiate" just because I sent in $400 to a priest in the Bronx.
    Not saying that's what you do either, but there are some who do just that and consider themselves an expert.
    I only claim what I can back up.




    Are you lying?

    I never even mentioned that man's name so if you don't want people to accuse you of lying I suggest you come up with facts to prove what you just said.



    That is YOUR assertion.

    YOU just accused me of saying Ra Un Nefer Amen was misleading people when in reality I never even mentioned his name so YOU should show us what that assertion was based on.

    I don't know about yours, but my religion doesn't teach me to make up lies or pin false accusations on people for the sake of argument.
     
  8. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You can not claim what you cannot prove. The point is you made the claim that it would be a mistake to believe WE can practice what our ancestors in Kemet practiced.

    Please show and prove. Unless ofcourse you're lying.

    No, are you?

    No you never brought his name up I did, so why would I be worried about lying. lol . Once again, you said "So it would be a mistake to believe WE can practice what our ancestors in Kemet practiced."

    As you probably know, Ra Un Nefer Amen teaches Kemetic Spirituality, and as such is it not reasonable for me to challenge your claim by asking if indeed his teachings are not authentic? The accusation is by inference.

    lmao, actually they were two questions.

    Who's lying now lol. I asked you if you are prepared to show us that Ra Un Nefer Amen is misleading people.

    Implicit in your comments is the BELIEF that WE do not practice what they did in Kemet. How do you know this?

    You believe which means you do NOT KNOW. lol

    How did you come to this conclusion, is it based on experience as a member of a Kemetic ATR? Please share us the source(s) of your information

    So I will ask you again, did you come to this conclusion after visiting an oracle.

    Did a brotha or sister come to you and show you that black folks today DO NOT practice kemetic spirituality the way it was practiced in Kemet?

    Can you show me what if any differences there are as to how it is practiced today vs. yesteryear?
     
  9. Dual Karnayn

    Dual Karnayn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Sekhemu

    Is it necessary that you quote my ENTIRE post then start quoting each segment you want to address?

    It seems kind of anal.



    And you can't because you don't have all the information available for you to properly practice what they practiced.
    There are thousands of scrolls and documents yet to be deciphered, you don't have enough knowledge.

    Whites only have a faction of the knowledge ancient Kemet has and they only made a fraction of THAT available to the public.



    I didn't make the claim, YOU DID.

    You suggested that I said Ra Un Nefer Amen was misleading people when infact I never mentioned his name so the burden of responsibility is on YOU...not me.




    To answer your question, you SHOULD be worried about lying because once again your credibility is on the line.

    But there are people called socio-paths who don't care what they lie about or who they lie to.

    If you don't mind I would like to keep the conversation focused on RELIGION and GENDER

    ...since this is what the thread is about.


    If you need something to do, I suggest you go and do more research on that racist white author you love to quote and use as reference:

    http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38381

    Remember, the same one who suggested that Africa was uncivilized....lol.
     
  10. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You should know lol

    LMAO SMH. Ralf, ooops I mean Dual. How do you know what information I have available or by what means I obtain it. This goes to show me that you do not understand the role of Divination and Oracles.

    The Sages in the New kingdom did not always possess some of the "religious" papyrus' of the old kingdom, yet they were no less effective and proficient in their respective lodges.

    Who's talking about getting knowledge from white folks about our ancestors? :thinking:

    I assure you Ra Un Nefer Amen didn't become what he is by learning from white folks.

    This a typical mistake that people who've never been to Africa to learn first hand from priest and priestess usually make.

    You didn't have to mention his name, I simply used him as THE prime example with respect to your point of contention.

    Funny, you still haven't answered the question.


    Talk about lying, this whole sentence is a lie. YOU are the only one on this site that has a question about my credibility. Only you.

    Still think I'm worried LMAO, yea.... Ok!

    And what does this have to do with me? :dance:

    hmmmmm, must be getting under your skin, Oh well.

    Guess my questions will never be answered,

    I'll leave you to your thread. "brotha"
     
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