Black Spirituality Religion : Ray Hagins: The False Teachings of The Apostle Paul

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by RAPTOR, Aug 3, 2014.

  1. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

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  2. willa

    willa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Listened to Ray Hagins. Here is the correct understanding of the verse points he makes. I would rather he taught some of the gospel (good news) he claims to have of his new allegiance, the religion he has swung to. Surely there are points he has to make about "the light" he wears as a symbol on his robe. I would like to compare his good news "according to my gospel" (or good news) in the Truth that the Old and New Testament contain. The Truth is in the good news (gospel) that the Apostles carried. Each apostle can herald, "I come with good news and my good news (my gospel) is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Jehovah, that Rock, that Spirit that followed after Israel and Moses in the desert. (Jehovah = as is pronounced in the English language.)

    God does speak to everyone who desires to choose to study and learn of Him. Start with conversation between the two of you. Prayer. He answers prayers in many ways, instant or gradual. Through the Holy Spirit you will obtain understanding, brilliant ideas, ways are opened. When one door is closed, he opens another one. You must do your own study of the scriptures or you will be subject to the error of the one who is wrongly preaching at you. The power of discernment is a gift of the Holy Spirit, so that you can feel and know something is truth or there is a sense something is wrong. Find out what it is. A feeling of peace is also a voice of the Holy Spirit, Christ's messenger to us. All the gifts come through the Holy Spirit from the Lord to us, as needed. I was saved out of a bad automobile accident when the Holy Spirit, Christ's messenger told me how to handle the driving to avoid a collision. I knew what do one step at a time as the event unfolded. I put the car into a magnificent drift to turn the car in a different direction using brake and wheel, then gas. Ordinarily I would have just plowed straight on trying to lock brakes. Revelation is a wonderful gift of Spirit. You can't even have a testimony of Christ, except by the Holy Spirit in revelation. God does speak to you in many different ways.

    Hagins doesn't understand the Atonement. Christ gave his life, no one could take it. He had the power to disappear through the hands of the Romans. He could have made a case of his innocence before Pilot and be let go, but he didn't. He was here to do for us what we can not do for ourselves, pay, redeem ourselves from the fall and return us to the ability to be in the presence of "Our Father, which is in heaven". Heaven, a place of perfection and Glory. This earth is meant to be a place of perfection and Glory when all is done. The Atonement, spoken of as the blood of Christ is given without condition to all people in that all people will be resurrected, including the wicked to damnation in some degree or another. But those who strive to do well, as the Lord said, "There is none good, (through and through) save the Father. He is good (and the source of all good.) So the people who strive to follow that path are the ones who are Atoned for. The rest who could be considered rebellious to the principles of good are in jeopardy of having to pay for their own ways to the "uttermost farthing". Everyone makes a choice, the light of Christ tells everyone of wrong or right, known as a conscience.

    It is the Holy Spirit that testifies of the validity of the messages throughout the scriptures. That Christ lives and His Father in Heaven is all our Father in Heaven. That the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who were buried at the time, is a God of the living, not the dead. I told you that my grandmother came to see me and we talked. She is living, but we had buried her back in the 60's. She just wanted to see how I was. She is happy living in beauty. She also told me she was on her way to the Lord's holy house to do church service for the family there. So our family members also try to help us on the other side if they can. If we are living right to receive their help. However, we are to pray to our Father in heaven in the name of Jesus Christ. Just pointing out at this moment, ghosts are not of God.

    The point made by Hagins that Paul said he "caught you with guile." meaning Paul tricked you. NO. Paul caught the people he was teaching at that moment with guile. He was pointing out a disorder amongst these particular people. Which ought to give you a clue about Hagin's understanding while he is preaching what he is saying is his knowledge to you.
     
  3. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    This is just for sake of clarity, and not being "critical", but being a critical thinker when reading words and terms that we used to communicate to one-another.

    1Sa 16:16
    Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.


    Mat 1:18
    Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.


    Luk 1:11
    And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.


    Act 11:5
    I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:

    Act 16:9
    And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.

    Moses and Elias (Elijah) had disappeared and been missing (dead?) for hundreds of years

    • Moses "died" in 1513 BCE which was 1511 years before Jesus was born in 2 BCE.

    Mat 17:1
    And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

    Mat 17:2
    And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

    Mat 17:3

    And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

    Mat 17:5
    While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.


    If "God" can use a burning bush, why wouldn't it use "visions" and "apparitions"?
    For all we know, the "burning bush" could have been a "vision" or "apparition".
     
  4. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I totally agree willa,

    However we may do that with due diligence yet still come to different conclusions.
    There are or has been some times when even christians here on Destee.com, don't
    agree on a verse here and there. They are as devout to christianity as you are, yet

    still come down with different conclusions and or interpretations.

    You have one interpretation(s), hagins may have another.

    Having said that, it would've been quite helpful in seeing where
    you are coming from (more acutely), if you would've quote statements
    made by hagins and respond to them with your understanding.

    In any event, I appreciate your response.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  5. willa

    willa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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  6. willa

    willa Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    But there is only one Truth, not many contradictions of opinions.
     
  7. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Mat 17:1
    And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

    Mat 17:3

    And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. In an open vision

    Moses and Elias either were essentially "spirits" or "ghosts", no?​

    "In an open vision" <--- referring to the idea that this was for all of them to see, not just one of them.

    Allow this to be simplified, as the other examples were just for context...

    a. Did Peter, James, and John see Jesus with an 1400+ year old Moses?

    or

    b. Did Peter, James, and John see Jesus with a spirit (ghost) of Moses?

    Just curious as to the thoughts of what one would call this... was skipped over in previous reesponses.
     
  8. Enki

    Enki The Evolved Amphibian STAFF

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    One clear error in your response...your god does not hear prayers. How many people have prayed that their love one would not die, and they died anyway? Don't use, it's god's plan, that is a cop-out to make your god right no matter the outcome. I've seen Christians pray for many things only to see them go unfulfilled.

    Also, tell me how that work...Your god takes credit for when good happens to you, it's his will when bad happens to you, but you can also blame the devil when bad things happen to you when you don't want your god to take the credit for it.

    Also...aren't you going a little overboard here?

    If it's without condition, why do we have to believe in him? Also, it says gos is a loving and forgiving god...Well why is damnation permanent?

    peace!
     
  9. Enki

    Enki The Evolved Amphibian STAFF

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    You keep saying there is only one truth, what makes yours the correct one?

    Peace!
     
  10. Enki

    Enki The Evolved Amphibian STAFF

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    Question...why did your god put you in this predicament in the right place? Also, you forgot what he said at the 5:18 sec mark about what you know, vs what he knows.

    Peace!
     
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