Black People : Racist World Bank Policies

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by uzoka, Dec 19, 2003.

  1. uzoka

    uzoka Well-Known Member MEMBER

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  2. uzoka

    uzoka Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I wouldn't call it moving up in the world, just doing what I always do on online forums, spreading the information around, the same information I've been showing you incedently.

    Now, when I got a job, that's when I began 'moving up in the world'.

    hehe

    Peace.....
     
  3. uzoka

    uzoka Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The first version of this particular post, I had a little too much fun with for a man my age hehe so I decided to amend it, seeing also as you are a brother [you are right?].

    Okay, yes you're absolutely right, we shouldn't work for the man but perhaps you could practise what you have preached here thus far and offer me alternative solutions as to how I may go about covering my travel expenses for 2004 which will total approximately $5000-$6000 AUD without working.

    And, that reminds me, you haven't answered my question about what it is you are actively doing as part of the struggle, please....share.


    Peace
     
  4. uzoka

    uzoka Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Uh huh, so what have you said here on this thread up till now [and quickly because it is 6.00am here and I'm off to work].

    Don't work for 'the man' otherwise it will allow him control of you but if you need to travel as part of what you have set out for yourself in the struggle, then you must find a way to acquire funds to do so.

    That's not what I asked you, that much I know already...I asked HOW I might raise $6000 AUD in travel funds without working?

    What are the alternatives, a simple question...or you could just admit, that you have none.

    As for what you do, no....I don't see why you cannot tell me here what is you do, again it is a simple question that requires all of 2 or 3 lines.

    Then again, you already have told me.

    You don't do anything, you "sit at home all day".
    I work so I can travel.

    Like I said before, both are luxuries bought with blood and I'm not going to deny them or what they were fighting...it is still here.

    Peace.
     
  5. uzoka

    uzoka Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You have no concern for the world and yet you claim:

    "But I am 'human', as we ALL ARE HUMAN. Which makes us One and petty arguments such as this for children."

    Taken from the thread 'liars, hypocrites and sychophants' (sic)

    You regard the people of the world as one, but care nothing for them when they are suffering.
    And yet you do have a penchant for petty arguments yourself don't you, since if you did not you simply would have left it at the first post [in keeping with your belief that arguments such as the one contained in the thread, 'liars, hypocrites and sychophants (sic) ] are for the petty and children] but you continued arguing which makes you [by your logic not mine since I said no such thing] both small-minded and a child and a hypocrite.


    :boring: keep going I'm just closing my eyes

    So you advocate doing away with things that were built and derived from other people's suffering.

    The 'invention of the computer' the same invention that you type your poetry, essays or posts here out on etc was arrived at by people who were able to get an education from within a system that benefitted from those people who sweated, bled and died to build the countries in which those education systems reside.

    If your house is flooded with mud after a disaster such as a landslide and you want to restore your house to its former glory, you're going to have to get that mud on your hands.

    And as far as the 'need' to travel vs the 'desire' to travel goes:

    The point is I 'need' to do what I am doing, whether I 'want' to or not is besides the point, that is a secondary consequence.
    The 'need' came first...as one 'needs' to eat which in turn creates the 'desire' to eat.
    Now I know [lool] that one can 'want' to eat without necessarily 'needing' to eat, but in my case, the 'need' came before the 'desire' and you cannot argue with that, since that is something personal to me and you know nothing of me.

    Seeing that this is the case and in light of the following comment:

    Then acquire the funds I shall and nearly have, and since by your admission, I know better than you....I shall do it by working.
    And seeing as you have admitted that in this instance I know better than you, why bother giving advice if in the possession, in the first place, of knowledge that tells you that your advice is inferior to the ways of the individual you seek to give that advice to...unles you are making it up as you go along, which is why you so often contradict yourself as you did in the thread mentioned above.

    Therefore the end result is that you're original comment about working for the man is useless to me since you were not able to provide me with solutions, so you needn't of bothered saying it.

    Sell your computer as well, why stop at just your car, if you fail to do this, then you are simply a hypocrite, based on your last post.

    The country you are living in was built by the blood and sweat of other people suffering....in that case, maybe you should go live at sea, but then you'd be in a boat, built by people who were able to create such a thing because they lived in a country whose technological advances [even though Africa was building boats long before these advances] were made possible through the acquiring of things stolen, including people and all that that entails, and on and on.

    If travelling in relation to the struggle and working was good enough for people like Marcus Garvey, think I'll live with it too.


    This was my comment on luxuries being bought with blood:

    "Like I said before, both are luxuries bought with blood and I'm not going to deny them or what they were fighting...it is still here"

    And this comment was in relation to the freedom to sit down and not work or the freedom to travel [as a black man] as opposed to being in chains and being made to work some field or worse.

    That is the luxury I spoke of and when I said it was bought with blood, I speak about such people as Martin Luther King, Neslon Mandela, etc etc etc etc and I could fill the whole forum with names of blacks such as these people, because of them, I have freedom to do whatever, even deny what they fought and dismiss it as a faulty way of looking at the world.

    They spilled blood, they did not spill money..er anyway....moving on.

    If you say so......

    You buy food do you not, the food you buy goes towards the profits of someone who is already rich, you use electricity to power your computer, again you will have to pay the bills for that, even if you share the expense with others, the expense still exists to be paid and goes towards the already bloated cofffers of the rich and powerful.

    Now between listening to you and looking at the way the aforementioned Marcus Garvey and others conducted themselves, it's not even close.

    And that concludes my petty conversations with you...anymore laughter at your expense and I'll be in danger of cracking a rib.

    You have the last say now, I know it means that much to you.

    LOL!

    Peace.........:rolling: hehe
     
  6. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Before you reply Soul Doctor may I intercede by adding that, although this is an interesting debate of sorts, I don't see where it has anything to do with the topic of this thread. Instead, its focus has become a critical analysis of each other's beliefs on a personal level and I question whether this is the place for such a discussion.

    If there is a way the two of you can de-personalize this discussion, it might be an interesting topic for another thread.

    Peace! :look:
     
  7. uzoka

    uzoka Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    NNQueen, peace....always the sagaciously wise light and source of calm.

    You are indeed right.....

    As to the personalized nature of this 'discussion' it is merely a continuation of the above mentioned thread, an effort to impose one's belief on the other and I have emerged on the other side of that debate unchanged in respect to my views on African self reliance [as separate from whites] and I imagine so has sd...maybe someone will get something out of it, although I did enjoy it myself, I must admit.

    As for the original topic of this thread, I'm all for that, although the facts are the facts...being that the WB and IMF, in the interests of US foreign policy, along with European, Canadian and US multinationals, are bringing about conflict and desperation, by introducing structural models that reduce nationalist spending in favour of policy that infringes on labour rights, spending on education, health, utlilities, pensions and other such vital components as are necessary for a democratic allocation of wealth and opportunity.

    Some people here and elsewhere may not be aware [or as aware] of the details behind the western media's distorted reporting on such matters as they should, and seeing as Africa is -- when all things are taken into account -- the worst hit by these oppressive policies [and I would hope Africa means enough to people here to take note] hence my posting of this information, but I'm all for a discussion on this.


    Peace sister :)
     
  8. uzoka

    uzoka Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    As much I would love to use logic to once again reveal your confusion and inability to remain on the same track in respect to your thoughts, let's go onto more serious matters.

    Petty debate aside and in keeping with NNQueen's suggestions, do you have anything to say regarding current factors involved in conflicts at both the local and national levels on the continent of Africa and in respect to the IMF and WB structural adjustment models, canadian, European and US multinational business practise and their influence on conflict and corruption in Africa.

    Any comments on their operations from a historical perspective?
     
  9. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    uzoka and sd

    I must admit that I have enjoyed reading this two-way discussion. If neither one of you is offended by the other and agree to define this as an intellectual debate and not an argument, then please continue with the dialogue.

    Peace and much respect...
     
  10. uzoka

    uzoka Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I'll 'debate one last time, as I have already stated that I would love to hehe, but this is the last one, let's get this over with..


    You and I know full well that we have not been discussing the world as separate from the people contained therein, we have been discussing white supremacy as it relates to black people, which is why I originally contended that black peoples should go it alone. Therefore why speak all of a sudden about the world [which by your definition in this instance that does not include the people] of which I have uttered no such concern for.

    I am to travel to Nigeria out of concern for people, I wish to see blacks do things on their own, separate for their sake, again people, the WB and IMF structural adjustments programs affect people, I have not once showed any concern for the environment, my focus has always been people and not once have we spoken about anything other than people.

    Now I enjoy a good debate but this constant reshuffling of your point of view as and when it suits you, so as not to admit you have contradicted yourself [which you have done many times] is frankly, boring and pathetic.

    And you claim it is I who cannot look you in the eye pfft, everytime you have contradicted yourself, you ignore it and move onto another area you believe better in your interests.

    Conversational trend.

    Your most recent post, taking in to account the millions of Africans, South Americans, Indochinese, Bangladeshi, Chileans, East Timorese and Cypriots, Cambodians and inhabitants of Laos etc who have been killed, tortured, and terrorized as a result of what you erroneously]

    I am not influenced by money, and Bill Gates is no different from the corner bum to me. I would do the same for both if they needed my help. I would simply do it for the poorer man faster

    You control neither the proletarian mode of thinking or that of the bourgeoisie, both of whom in the interests of self, simply do their job and are only to happy to surrender independence of thinking [or as I said, are swept up in the materialism of the West], or who are consciously active in their collusions


    Here you use the many different names of people who share at the very least one thing in common: they were all oppressed by the powerful and in this day and age, that means the wealthy, and not necessarily the wealthy leaders

    Certainly money has value to those who have it

    I am well aware of the suffering of the impoverished

    Do away with a good portion of the African people so as to free up world resources for the use of not just the European elite, but the masses to whom the aforementioned refer to as 'flim flam peasant stock'.

    They persist in this regard where women in developing countries are concerned, the catholic church having gone on record as saying, "women are vessels of excrement".

    It is not just what 'blacks' must do. It is what we all must do. It is what humanity must do. If we blacks do it first, well and good. But if it does not spread to humanity, others will continue to suffer

    was brought up to believe that if you do nothing you get nothing and I do not envisage whites giving up white supremacy without a fight, and Africans are in no position to fight, either offensively or defensively speaking

    I love blacks...Africans, and want to be assured we can defend ourselves

    Now what are your solutions in the physical here and now in getting whites to relinquish white supremacy through loving them even as they tread daily on African dignity


    Now show me where we discussed the environment as apart from people.

    But I am supposed to believe that when you said you care not for the world, you were not talking about people...hehe, you're the only smart guy alive arent you:

    ______________________________________________________________________

    You said in thread, liars, hypocrites and sychophants:

    You can confront me with your 'information' but where else do you go? Who else have you 'confronted'? Have you gone public with your 'message'? Or is destee dot com your 'public'? How many forums do you actively post to, spreading your 'knowledge'?

    Yet this time you commended me, but I said nothing akin to having posted the information elsewhere until after you commended me so for all you know, I just posted the information here.

    It was the same exact information I had submitted for your perusal before, but one day I was merely 'talking' and the next 'coming up in the world'.

    Another contradiction.

    Which in turn tells me that you read neither the posting of the website the article is to befound at or the direct link to the article at the beginning of this thread, which reinforces my opinion that you care not for people but only winning a debate, regardless of whether you contradict yourself or not, as long as you think people believe you know what you're talking about.
    _________________________________________________________________


    My initial reply to your 'commendment' was in respect to what you termed as 'coming up in the world' and I merely gave my own personal view as to when I personally felt I began to come up in the world [purely a matter of opinion, in that I secured myself a job and in doing so, was able to begin saving to do what I needed to do and therefore, want to do with my life, 'instead of just talking' or writing poetry.

    When I did develop a problem was how you constantly contradicted yourself and hung onto the the error in 'working for the man' like a rabid pitbull.... for what?.....to recover some pride because you can't remember what you said a few hours ago, and yet you call others children.

    _______________________________________________________________________


    This statement is logically incorrect since you do not know every person, this statement is a generalisation without grounding in any facts whatsoever.

    How do you know that every person who is working is 'bleeding' for another, why can't they be like you and be bleeding for the things they own.

    At best you may say, SOME people who work bleed for the desires of another, and SOME people are emotionally attached to the things they own, yes I know this.

    Nevertheless you have worked, or are you saying there exists a law that quantifies a point past which lies your hands becoming dirty and before which, your hands remain clean.
    In addtion you have worked for somebody else in your children and wife or did you prefer to leave them to fend for themselves in keeping with your high and noble principles.
    There exists no such law officially or otherwise, therefore if your hands were dirty they are dirty, since you still live within a system that benefitted from the suffering of innocents, by your own logic.

    Now one could surmise that as long as you then go onto good positive works in relation to whatever the mud is a metaphor for, you could redeem yourself, but seeing as your poems and essays are not published and are merely posted on forums and the like, then the validity of your being absolved of your past life as a worker for the man is a matter of opinion, depending on whose opinion you are asking.

    _________________________________________________________________________


    But a life sustaining means to an end, [in the case of food] and unless you are going to steal your groceries, which in turn would technically be a manifestation of greed since to take without paying is akin to say what the world bank has done since the forties, which would make you just as bad as they, although on a much smaller scale, you're going to require money.

    Seeing as this is a life sustaining means and you require money to buy this life sustaining commodity, then you are indeed a slave to money, which leaves you no more free than one who works, you both need to need to eat and pay bills etc...the difference?... you saved The Man's money
    _________________________________________________________________________



    Well, we can all huff and bare our chests and pontificate as concerns what it is we'd like to think we are but that doesn't necessarily make it so and from what I've seen thus far of you, I gotta tell ya, I ain't impressed.

    _____________________________________________________



    But again, who says I give glory to ash or sand, by that token then, why stop at your cars ...sell your house, computer and go and live in the bushes of a country not built on the backs of innocents.

    You live in a house, I live in a house, you pay bills, so do I, you own things that you placed within that house, same here, the only difference is you do not work and I do, but you used to, you see not working as helping you to achieve what it is you have set out for yourself....I work to do the same thing, again the difference, you saved your 'blood' money...I use it to travel.

    Now you claim to be of a highly spiritual nature, is it a part of your spiritual philosophy to boast of it, would that not go against the state of being humble, I'm sure boasting in any spiritual code is a negative which in turn further stain your hands or rather, your spiritual growth, how's that for getting your hands dirty?....you tell me.

    _________________________________________________________________

    Right, so you do not agree with my likening food to travel, I can live with that.


    _________________________________________________________________


    Rather than re write it out again, I'll just past one exmaple here which you never answered.

    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here you use the many different names of people who share at the very least one thing in common: they were all oppressed by the powerful and in this day and age, that means the wealthy, and not necessarily the wealthy leaders. Nor do I believe this to be a case of an obsession with money. To coin a phrase 'a rose by any other name'. In this case, evil, wickedness, selfishness, or as you seem to call it 'greed' is the cause and that comes down to the individual person
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    You're confusing yourself now.
    That's not what you said in the first place, you didn't say anything came down to wickedness and selfishness and evil, you said:


    Quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If there were no money, there would be no problem with solving the issues that you decry
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    You believed money to be the root of all the evil of which I speak, and if it didn't exist then everything would be fine or an easy solution could be found, but I showed you that money was not the cause, that greed was since [to give the context in which I speak as an example] since the value of money did not exist.

    Obviously your whole thinking on this matter is flawed since even if money didn't exist, you would still have the problem of ridding people of their greed, which in turn causes one to be wicked in order to satisy their greed, the circumstance depending.

    Now you contend that wickedness etc is the cause, which is it, money or evil and wickedness, you cannot have both since one is older than the other and therefore existed without the other [ie, evil and wickedness without money].

    And don't say well wickedness led to the creation of money because you said quite quite clearly, if money didnt exist there'd BE NO PROBLEM.

    Clear as day you contradicted yourself, on this thread too.

    __________________________________________________________________________


    Well actually you brought up work first

    - the thread, liars, hypocrites and sychophants.

    But as regards this thread, yes I brought it up as a joke reference in keeping with the seemingly light tone of your initial words of praise here on this thread, once you began preaching about 'working for the man' I asked you for what you had in mind as an alternative, you had none....which led to my asking you why you bothered saying anything then.

    It's not your problem that's why?

    Again, then why waste the energy unless your intentions in replying to this thread original link were less than sincere hmm, if this is the case, and I'm not saying it is, merely offering it up as a possibility, are sure you left work of your own free will?
    _____________________________________________________________________________


    Whoa, you have a go at me for calling you a hypocrite and yet its alright for you to say:

    If not, then this is child's play and you are a child

    Hey, you don't like it, I suggest you lead by example.
    And I couldn't care less who started it first [lol].

    And as for starving yourself, hehe, tell me where you are and I'll put that on my list of travels.

    But as for blood, dirt, whatever, think I've covered that.

    _________________________________________________________________________


    So is yours ...see way above..


    ____________________________________________________________________

    Hence why I work, so why tell me that working for the man is slavery when you know I must do it anyway, what was the objective?


    I asked you how I shall raise $6000 AUD, for travel expenses alone, I mentioned nothing about food or housing, that is an additional cost, already saved for...you have nothing valuable to tell in regards to alternatives in saving for anything so lets move on.



    Think I highlighted where your chains lie somewhere near the top....



    And so does yours, I have shown you to be still a slave [of the man as you put it] and your hands are dirty, not only that you're still living in a land built by the sufferings of innocents.

    ______________________________________________________________

    .

    No the 'vampires don't care where they [lol lool] get blood from do they, including the money you pay your bills with, and food, clothes, personal items etc.
    ________________________________________________________________________


    So the end result once again is that we both survive on the bodies of the fallen and their efforts and money drenched in their blood....you're beginning to see the 'need' to travel that pushes me to work hard everyday, except Sundays in order to get out there and get involved.

    _______________________________________________________________________

    Survive on what...oh you mean the money you saved while working for the man...

     
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