Black People : Race Segregation versus Class Segregation in Schools

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by GrozTheWarrior, Apr 18, 2007.

  1. GrozTheWarrior

    GrozTheWarrior Member MEMBER

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    Hello! I am one semester away from completing my teaching credential in California. One of the requirements for a CA Credential is taking a Multicultural Foundations course. Last night in class a heated debate was sparked about segregation in schools. There is a consensus that racial segregation has evolved into a form of class segregation.

    I feel this can happen in one of a few ways :: As the average socio-economic class of the community rises, students develop different interests (either academically or socially) so instead of separating themselves into black-white-asian-latino, the split is between rich and not-so-rich. Another reason might be that as 'minority groups' are actually the minority (take some Bay Area schools in California for example - San Jose is predominantly Latino whereas a school in Palo Alto might be predominantly white), the commonalities shift from skin color to something else. In this case, similar interests and social class.

    I am interested in feedback, either from students or parents of students who have witnessed anything like this in schools. I am interested in where else this is happening and possible causes for this shift in segregation.

    Thanks!
     
  2. KWABENA

    KWABENA STAFF STAFF

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    Forgive my Generalization(s), but you have no clue what is about to happen in Amerkkka's Schools and School System.

    The fact of the matter is - there should be no division at all, IF the schools were working toward what they say they are working toward. What sense does it make to go around bragging "we're equal opportunity," but one group is far down, while the other is on top???

    -ish happens...

    KM
     
  3. GrozTheWarrior

    GrozTheWarrior Member MEMBER

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    I'm not saying that division is good, but that's the reality of things right now. The purpose of this thread was to acknowledge the fact that segregation happens in different forms and for my own research, I would like your opinions on this topic.
     
  4. KWABENA

    KWABENA STAFF STAFF

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    Well for Starters, my Brotha...I would further analyze the Segregation issue(s) by observing it in all areas of People Activity...that would be a good start. For example, and since it is for Research/Educational Purposes ( I am a Student as well), I would look at the presence of Segregation in Enter"tame"ment (Entertainment), Religion, Politics, Economics, War, etc...I think you get the point.

    If I can be of any more help to you, please let me know.

    KM
     
  5. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    GrozTheWarrior ... Hello and Welcome ... :wave:

    In general, we don't respond well to folk joining us for the sole purpose of gathering information, research, etc.

    Share your thoughts in other threads, give us a chance to get to know you ... and you'll probably receive more responses.

    Much Love and Peace.

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  6. torch

    torch Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I like "enter'tame'ment" cause thats exactly what it is...to tame people, mold them which has alot to do with class and racial segregation from a certain point of view..
     
  7. GrozTheWarrior

    GrozTheWarrior Member MEMBER

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    My mistake! You have my appology :oops:

    I found your forum earlier this morning actually, and was amazed at not only the sheer breadth of topics, but that there were over 450 users and guests browsing at the time. My intent wasn't to barge in here and demand immediate answers and feedback, but to develop a working relationship with hundreds of people in one common place.

    I am a musician and am going into the field of high school music education. Currently, the hot topic in California Education programs is Multiculturalism, since this state represents students and families of a wide variety of races and ethnicities.

    In the few hours this thread has been up, KWABENA has already opened up the topic to more than just schools. While I agree with the statement that schools brag about 'equal opportunity,' in the same vein, I believe it's the students that choose to segregate themselves by either race or, nowadays, social class. Another question is, then, since schools are content by merely offering equal opportunity to their student body, what more can they do to remedy this segregation on campuses?

    Aside from all this, I'm looking forward to engaging in other discussions on your site. Feel free to ask me anything, too. I hope that I can bring some new opinions to the table!
     
  8. OmowaleX

    OmowaleX Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    While I agree, to some extent, that students do tend to segregate themselves according to class INTERESTS, I also disagree that ehy do not divide according to race, especially in California schools where I taught for 20 years. In fact, it seems as if there is a "new segregation" taking place. Furthermore, when these students matriculate and go into the college/university system, many campuses have Black student unions, Mecha's, etc.

    I find it interesting that now a required course for your credential is Multicultural Foundations, whereas 20 years ago it was Cross-Cultural Foundations, which is quite different. I guess that was when the debate centered more on "parity" than "diversity", when affirmative action programs were still in effect.


    When I first started teaching (1986) I first was in Lynwood, and then was a susbtitute for a few years, working in Lynwood, Compton and Inglewood. I made my way around to most schools in these 3 districts from elementary to high school and one thing that stands out is I remember back in 1988 working at a middle school in Compton. I was supervising (yard duty) one day and noticed something about a group of students playignsoccer during lunch break. They were black and latino, and their teams were the equivalent of "Blacks" vs "Mexico". I remember telling one of the administrators that "if the kids "keep this up" you're gonna have a big problem on your hands."

    When I worked in Los Angeles USD, at a middle school near LA High, we used to have staff development days which were called (1:19) because that was the time of dismissal. Well...in the spring of 2005, when the blacks and latinos started fighting in some of the high schools, on some of thsose staff development days black and latino students from the high schools used to come by and concregate near our school doing "recruitment" and on a few occasions our staff had to intervene in a few incidents involving upwards of 300 students "mobbing" right on wilshire blvd. On Cinco de Mayo (2005) rumors were circulating that a "hit" was being put out on black students and close to 700 of our 1600 students were absent that day.

    My school campus was very diverse with a mostly latino and asian (korean) population and about 15-20 black and/or white. Some of the "whites" were Jewish, Russian, Armenian and Ukranian. "Others" included Iranians, East Indian, Middle Eastern and a sizeable Filipino population.

    The Filipinos were clsoe knit with each other but also kicked it heavy with black students. the white mostly kept to themselves, with a few asiains. The koreans and mexicans used to fight more than any other groups except whent the outsiders came to instigate between the blacks and mexicans.

    The KOREAN "cliques" or "gangs" caused the most trouble (surprised?), followed by the mexicans and salvadoreans, then the black gangs.

    NEVER in my life, until that cinco de mayo did I witness or experience black youthyou "running scared" of mexicans. Since I moved to texas the problems in Clai have gotten worse, especially in the prison population.

    So, the bottom line here is that if the university is teachign that these differences are "class" rather than "race" it is no wonder "education" is failing and there is a widening "Black achivement gap".

    The school in question is located in Hancock Park, one of LA's most affluent areas (zip code 90005), is a "California Distinguished School", is famous for being used for numerous movie productions (site location), and there was a heavy PR campaign to keep the schools ETHIC "gang problem" under wraps.

    From my own experience at the university level, it seems that ths students who tend to involve themselves in "black student organiations" are middle class and typically not experienced in Black student organiing OR in working with Black Community programs. Many times their involvemnt is an "exploratry" process and see where many, if not most, are at five years after graduation. No more locs, twists or braids. No more oversized jeans and bandanas. Because they now have to "make it" in the "real world" and get a job (something i need to do...desperately...LOL)

    I shook some thing up when I ws doing my teacher program at UCLA. They tried giving me a student teaching assignment at a west side school (predominately "white"). I petitioned to work at Dorsey HS, which is predominately Black (I had 3 cousins attending Dorsey at the time and my Dad thought I was crazy). I didnt care about being "ostraciszed" or "faining". I wanted to work "in tha hood".

    Well, my cross-cultural foundations teacher tried his best to fail me so I wouldnt complete my program. All it took was giving me a "C" on my final. A few other professors gave me B-'s to lower my GPA below 3.0 (this was orchestrated).

    I had to re-take my Cross-cultural final ORALLY. The problem I was was he THOUGHT I hadnn't done the reading. What happened was I was "interpreting" the material he was presenting, and giving it back to him from and INNER-CITY Perspective.

    It was not that I did not "read". I read to well, and gave it to him in a way that made him question his own interpretation and then explained to him how my perspective was based on my eperience interaticng with Black students in the inner-city, with mostly white teachers who did not underrstand the "codes" black people use, and how we also use formal and informal languages in specific context that whites might find inappropriate but are "standard" Black cultural modes of communication.


    Blew dude away cuz he though all I did was fall aslepp in his class without taking any of his notes.


    In closing, please excuse my "sharing" but I really have no other "forum" in which to do so and usually try to share xperience on issues rather than just state an opinion based on something i read.

    Good luck to you in your program.

    Hopefully you will find a balance in your studies and find that race AND class are factors and that folks who believe in the "declining significance of race" or that the problem is "class exploitation" dont really know how race and class are linked and how amerikka is becoming more "racist" (re-segregating) as the crisis of capitalism" intensifies.

    What we see in ethnic conflict is not simply created by the media. It is evident of "contradictions" existant in the society and The Problem of the 21st century STILL is the "Color Line".


    Peace...
    (please excuse typos...im going blind...)
     
  9. EL PAPI LEANDO

    EL PAPI LEANDO Banned MEMBER

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    Greetings, Groz.

    Now, you are the teacher here. You know then that the word "segregation" is actually a quasi-legal term, while has the implication of state involvement in "separating" the students along those lines, rather that students being human beings, and simply gravitating toward other students of like interest.

    Black students, Latino students, White and Asian students, Art and Music students, Rich and Poor and Middle-class students, Male and Female students, Scientists and Athletes and gangbanging students...get the drift? People, whether students or drop-outs or graduates will tend to gravitate toward folk they can relate to, and to use the term segregation is to sensationalize a very normal human behavior. That is my perspective
     
  10. GrozTheWarrior

    GrozTheWarrior Member MEMBER

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    Allow me to clarify :: This idea of race vs. class developed from an in-class discussion we had one evening in a Multicultural Foundations session. It isn't part of the normal curriculum I am receiving. We had an assignment where we had to interview 'parents of color' and ask questions about race, discrimination, heritage, and the like. Many classmates got responses that supported this idea of the shift in separation in schools from either witnessing it or hearing accounts of it from their children.

    @ OmowaleX :: What great experiences you've had! Good or bad, everything you've addressed really happened and it's refreshing to hear from a teacher that wasn't afraid to teach 'in tha hood.' Too often those schools get neglected and the lack of support from parents and teachers perpetuates into early adulthood.

    I'd write more but this is just my prep period (I'm subbing today)
     
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