Black Spirituality Religion : Questions For A.T.R Member Here .

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Khonsu, May 3, 2006.

  1. Khonsu

    Khonsu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You know I had a few question for the A.T. R also but no one seen to have and answer .

    Question like these .
    What the name of their A.T.R. God he / she ?
    Does their God he / she speak to them ?
    How does the A.T.R. God she / she communicate with them ?
    Does the A.T.R. God he / she answer their prayer ?
    Does the A.T.R. help white people , if not why not ?
    Is the A.T.R. God he / she a races God ?
    Do the A.T.R. speak to the dead , And how is this done ?
    where did these teaching come from , Date / Time etc etc ?
    When did these teaching come into existence Date / Time Please ?
    Are their class held on these teaching being you say it the true history of the nubian people ?
    What the name of your teacher ?
    Are their any website where this information can be found ?
    Are the belief's / culture of the A.T.R. only for the Nubians .
    Can white people join the A.T.R. if not why . ?
    Does the God A.T.R. she / he hate white people if so why ?
    Does the people of A.T.R. belief fear the the God she / he of A.T.R. if so why ?
    Did the God he / she A.T.R. know that the white man going to put Nubians slavery . And why did he allow this to happen to his choses people ?
    Why does the God she / he of A.T.R. allow his chose people be mistreated by the white man ?
    Are we the chosen people of the God she / he A.T.R. and why ?
    What sect / denomination or whatever you call it , Do you belong to . being they're more then one sect / denomination true . ?
    Does your belief / culture by whatever name you call it , Tell you to insult / disrepect others belief / cultures such as Christianity / Islam Etc etc ?
    What type of spiritual teaching are taught in A.T.R. and where did these teaching come from dates / time , And what are the name of these people who teach these spiritual teaching call and where did they get these spiritual teaching from Date / Time , When these teaching came to their teacher .
    Just a few question .
     
  2. Khonsu

    Khonsu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    A Few More Question For A.T.R. Member Here

    Does the member here of the A.T.R. have food drives for Nubians who are not a member of A.T.R.

    If not why ?
    How can the member of the A.T.R. prove they feed Nubian meaning can they give name of the city these things are taken place .

    Does the member here of the A.T.R. open up school for Nubians , If so what citys are these school open .

    Can white children go to these school if not why not .

    Are the children that go to thess SCHOOL taught to only adhere to the teaching of the member here of A.T.R. and if so why .

    What make the teaching of the member A.T.R. here above other A.T.R. etc etc .

    Is the God she / he of the member of the A.T.R. here above other member of the A.T.R. / Christian / Muslim etc . etc who doesn't adhere to your teaching if so can you explay how .

    Where in your holy book does it teach it member to speak against others belief / cultures / Religion Etc etc .. Chapter and Verse please .

    What type of God she / he is this that would teach his children to put down other belief etc etc ,
    Is the God she / he of the A.T.R. here a JEALOUS God , and if so , Why would he / she be JEALOUS if he / she is the only true God / Goddess

    Are the teaching of the member here of A.T.R. made up by it member here ?

    Are the teaching of A.T.R. member here a part of SECRET SOCIETY ????????/
    Why do the member of A.T.R.here only ask question they have the answer to ????
    Why do they only push certain book for people to read , What is it that they fear .
    How can one prove the History of the member of the A.T.R. here , Where can this IN-FOR-MATION BE FOUND . Or is this some thing new that made up ???

    Do the member of the A.T.R. here have the original teaching of Said A.T.R. IF so where can they be found . Also how many time have their teaching been REVISE / RENEW And Why And By Whom .
    Does the God he / she of A.T.R. member here make MISTAKES ???
     
  3. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The Old Testament can be classified and even proven to be an A.T.R. so can I answer a few of your questions and you can let me know if you would like for me to continue or was you looking for someone else of a different affiliation and belief then my own to answer you questions?

    YH, YHVH, Atum, Creator, Elohim, Allah, due to the fact that my GOD existed before time HE is known by many names because HE has passed through many a people. HE can be recognized through a study of HIS history and doctrinal belief system.
    My GOD use to Speak directly to us but it scared us so much that we made a pact with our GOD to not hear HIM Speak anymore.

    Ex:20:19: And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

    I assume when GOD Spoke from the Great Mist it scared a lot of people and probably some got consumed by HIS Being and some had heart attacks etc…. Which caused the people to develop a new method of communicating with GOD. This new method that was agreed upon between GOD and the people was the whole bringing fourth of a “Prophet”.

    Deu 18:
    13: Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
    14: For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.
    15: The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
    16: According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
    17: And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
    18: I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
    19: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.


    As you can see, for my faith, most of your questions can be answered simply by studying the Old Testament and Holy Scriptures, nothing has to be made up or invented on the fly. Would you like for me to continue?
     
  4. Khonsu

    Khonsu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hotep


    Sure why not , Being the A.T.R. member here are Afraid to answer them . Just goes to show you they will Challenge other belief ,

    People Of other Faith / Belief Etc etc should use these question and some of there own to question the member of A.T.R. HERE .. stop Leting Them Questioning You About Your Faith / Belief . Put Them To The Test . And see if they are full of it or not . Stop leting them lay that white man B.S. on you . Tell them you already know about the white man , Lets deal with what you say is the truth . Then began to question them about there belief / culture / teaching / and let not forget their God . Stop playing there game .
     
  5. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I like playing their game just as I do with servants of Jesus because maybe one day they will realize when their religion fails to standup in a debate because of it’s poor construction, they will realize there can be no real or true GOD in it. All through the Old Testament one of our greatest threats was our weakness to invent and fall to, worship false religions that was most likely created by one of our own. That continues to be the case today.

    In the history of the Old Testament GOD did talk directly to us but as we made a pact with GOD to not hear HIS Voice GOD raised the Prophet in whom GOD now Spoke through. Today GOD is hiding HIS Face and what we are left with is the Words that were written by these Prophets.

    Deut:31:17: Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day. Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?

    Until GOD stops hiding HIS Face we are left with concentrating on and deciphering the Words that were written by the Prophet as GOD. It is those writings that will help us re-establish our relationship with GOD and find HIM. The Specific Word of GOD written by a Prophet as GOD can be discovered as declaring “Thus saith the LORD” or “The LORD said unto me” or any passage that shows and or suggests the Words were actually Spoken with the Divine Breath of GOD. This applies to books that were written in the days when man had a natural fear and respect of GOD.
    GOD communicates with us today through us meditating on HIS Word.

    GOD examines the prayer fist to see if it is worthy of answering. From our point of view the prayer may be good and glorious but from GODs point of view, which is ALL; the result of fulfilling the pray could cause more death and lost in a future we are unable to see.

    Yes, we all started out as Negroid.

    No, we all started out as Negroid.

    We use to practice this as you can see in this passage, but we learned that truly calling up a spirit causes that spirit to be agitated. How would you feel if you were in a setting of bliss, pure love, ecstasy and every setting of beauty and absolute spiritual knowledge and all of a sudden you are ripped from that setting to answer some questions or to be exploited? I don’t know about you but I would be pretty pissed off at the people or person that ripped me out of that setting.

    1Sam:28:15: And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

    You will need to read more of the information around this passage to understand but Samuel is being summand from the dead or his spirit is being questioned. As you can see he speaks with agitation for being disrupted from what ever place he was. Due to the fact that African Americans have no idea who or what spirit they are summoning, they have no idea what they are getting into. You keep knocking on deaths door long enough and eventually someone or something is going to answer. Only a fool believes they can exploit a spirit. That’s the only reason one would call something up that they believe can see the future, is to exploit it.

    I will continue later.
     
  6. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    It is difficult to date the Old Testament or Holy Scriptures because the writing starts with the beginning of man. Some say that Adam is actually a reference to the Red Crown of Egypt and the entire Old Testament is simply the history of the family bloodline that wore the Red Crown. There is strong historical and archeological support for this concept. It was the Amenhoteps 1551 BCE of the 18th Dynasty that began the gradual move from polytheism to monotheism and constantly struggled with the polytheistic Amun Priests of Egypt. Through this we can began to date the Historical aspects of the Old Testament, but the religion found in the Old Testament can’t be dated because the bulk of it can be found in the Pyramid Text of Egypt and it also has yet to be dated but we do know for sure it is the first religious theology the Egyptians started out practicing which sets Atum as the Supreme Being and they did not worship or praise all of the other deities that can know be found in the Egyptian pantheon today. These multiple god concepts and Egyptians starting to worship them over Atum comes from religious leaders trying to take over government, witch they did for a while. That’s why you see in the Old Testament Priests being the head of Israel. Then later you began to see Kings / Pharaohs take back over being rulers of Israel, which is exactly what, occurred during the 18th Dynasty through Akhenaten. Several people reject the idea that the Old Testament is simply a characterization of Egyptian History, especially the people called Jews today because they know Egyptian were black Africans; which is also one of the reasons white people today try to claim that Egyptians were white. In reading the Old Testament we discover who the Holy People are. Everybody who understands this will try to claim or steal history of the Holy People as if GOD Himself would know the difference.

    I fear GOD because I know and see what HE has Spoken has come to be.

    HE sent the white man to continue and complete what Babylon started. These are some of the slavery decrees that would take place if Israel were to break our agreement with GOD to not go back to the polytheistic worshipping of Heathen and Egyptian deities.

    Deut:28:48: Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.

    Deut:28:44: He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.

    Deut:28:36: The LORD shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.

    Deut:28:64: And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

    These are the curses that the Great Egyptians have experienced and are experiencing. Out of all the gods and writings of Egypt none has yet been found that prophesies and explains out fate or what happen to us in the End Days of the Greatest Kingdom that ever existed on earth.

    Because we rebelled against HIS Holy Word and betrayed HIM as being our GOD, we broke the Covenant that was made between GOD and our ancestors.

    There is a specific bloodline on this earth that is the Chosen of GOD. When GOD confounded the languages and the people divided that bloodline that became the Chosen is the bloodline that sustained the original encounter and concepts of and with the One GOD the longest. That bloodline sustained the monotheistic theology the longest.

    I belong to the sect that sustains monotheism and holds the GOD manifested in the Holy Scriptures and Old Testament as the Supreme Being. At the moment the African people in Africa and America are scattered and oppressed but this will change over time as more and more began recognizing and re-establishing our relationship with GOD, our Power.

    Yes.

    Exo 34:
    12: Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee
    13: But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
    14: For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

    Deut:7:5: But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.

    I do this by revealing their lies and deceit through debate and allowing them to see for themselves they have no sound doctrine.
     
  7. Khonsu

    Khonsu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hotep

    Guess your right their doctrine must be weak , I though being they talk to the dead they would have some answer . Maybe it some truth to the saying dead man / woman can't talk .
     
  8. SekaniOK

    SekaniOK New Member MEMBER

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    What ATR is and isnt

    What is ATR (African Traditional Religion)? What defines it?

    ATR is the collective name given to traditional religions (Ifa, vodun, etc) practiced primarily in West Africa where majority of us (Afrikans in America) come from. John Mbiti (great starting point for studying ATR) and other African Traditional Religion scholars give the religions of our ancestors this label to identify the commonalities in the different religious systems. The commonalities would be the:
    Belief in a supreme force/god (and have a specific name for that force ex: Oludumare, Nyame, etc. instead of just god),
    belief in divine agents (not gods but helpers of god called by different names orisha, loa, abosum, etc) this is the point of confuse for many without the proper context. This is where western conceptions misguide the student. This is where most western terms like polytheism misinform the student. It is NOT polytheism because the African Traditional Religions recognize the Supreme Force and ALSO recognize the divine entities that assist. Western scholars only confuse the concepts in reference to our traditions and culture. If ATR are polytheistic than the 3 major western religions are ALSO polytheistic. (example: christanity= trinity concept god, the son, the holy spirit, the long list of saints, the multiple angels throughout the biblical stories, etc.)
    the belief that we are here to serve a divine role and we CHOSE to be here at this time and place and that the conflict in life is about the battle of harmony between righteous and unrighteous.
    The traditions, religions, and cultures are pasted down through the songs, dances, and stories passed down through generations. (Example the IFA system passes down the ancient divination system through word of mouth and the way they remember the different aspects of the divination system is through stories similar to Aesop’s fables. The meaning and message is encoded in the stories and only a thinker and/or knower of sacred knowledge has the key to open certain door or information in the stories.) this also reinforces why the reclamation of our ancient traditions is so vital to our survival here on these shores. Traditions and cultures are the foundations of a people and a “civilization”; these traditions and cultures are carried with the people and when the people were separated and demoralized the traditions and cultures are demoralized.
    The focus of the practitioners is the development of good character, fighting the good fight with the battle over righteous and unrighteous and developing your spirit to higher levels



    What the name of their A.T.R. God he / she?
    There is but one god. One supreme force. Different ethnic groups (or tribes) call that supreme force by different names depending on their native tongue and their relationship with that force. The supreme force is actually given a name instead of a generic title as “god”. The YORUBA (Nigeria) call the supreme force Olodumare or Olorun, the AKAN (Ghana) call it Nana Nyankopon, or Onyame, the ASANTE (Ghana, Côte d’Ivoire) call it Nyame, the AZANDE (Sudan) call it Mbori or Mboli, the BACONGO (Angola) call it Nzambi, the DOGON (Burkina Faso, Mali) call it Amma, the EWE (Benin, Ghana, Togo) and FON (Benin) call it Mawu-Lisa. Would a rose by any other name be as sweet? Because our brothers and sisters in West Africa who still practice our ancient ways do not view the supreme force as being distant or sitting in heaven, they view the supreme force as being close and a part of everything and everyone and they feel connected enough to give the supreme force a name. (helps to understand why there is no sepereation between secular and sacred in African Traditonal Religions...God is everywhere and everything. Nothing is outside of god).
    To answer the second part of your question the supreme force is both masculine/feminine energy/energies It is not “either or”.

    Does their God he / she speak to them?
    God speaks to us all, we just don’t know or forgot how to listen. Everytime you have a funny feeling or something tells not to do something…that is god speaking to you.

    How does the A.T.R. God she / she communicate with them?
    God does speak to us through divination systems where we ask questions and get divine answers from spirits and ancestors. You also have people who are in tune with divine vibrations and have clairvoyance and see hear or see things the average person can’t.

    Does the A.T.R. God he / she answer their prayer?
    Yes, through prayer and effort on their part. You have to put some energy into it to get something out of it. Life is about give and take relationships and so is the relationships with god and the spirits. You don’t have to PUSH (pray until something happens) you pray about it, meditate on it and start moving towards whatever it is you wanted or needed and they assist in a big way.

    Does the A.T.R. help white people, if not why not?
    I don’t know about that. It doesn’t address white people because the traditions and religions are tied to the ethnic groups. From their experiences with white people, white people are destructive to their way of life. You have people whose only contact with white people was during the enslavement period and missionaries. So you tell me what they think and say about white people and if they would tell them anything about their god, spirits, or way of life?

    Is the A.T.R. God he / she a races God?
    There is but one god. There is one supreme force in the universe. We call it by different names but describing the same force. Now, you do have spirits or deities specific to certain groups of people (like the deity Jehovah in the biblical stories. He chose them as his chosen people so they were chosen… of him).

    Do the A.T.R. speak to the dead, And how is this done?
    What do you mean by dead? No one actually dies, we transcend and move to the other side. Energy is neither created nor destroyed and if we are energy and we “die”, then we only have returned to the greater energy source awaiting to return again. But to answer your question there are ways to commune with departed souls through several ways mostly through skilled and seasoned priests who know how to do it and through divinations.

    where did these teaching come from , Date / Time etc etc? When did these teaching come into existence Date / Time Please ?
    Researching specific ethnic groups will let you know when, how, and where each group gets its teachings and systems.


    Are their class held on these teaching being you say it the true history of the nubian people ?
    The best way to learn about ATR is through researching, reading text on the religions, and experiencing the culture.

    Does the people of A.T.R. belief fear the the God she / he of A.T.R. if so why ?
    People who practice African traditional religions don’t fear god, they respect god and all its creation (nature, people, etc). Fear is a western tool of control. If we are speaking of the supreme force of all existence than why would the supreme force feel it had to put the “fear of god” in people if it is secure in its position or importance. Westerners use fear to supplement their internal issues and control their external environment.

    Are their any website where this information can be found?

    http://theafrican.com/Magazine/Cosmo.htm

    http://africawithin.com/religion/intr_to_atr.htm

    http://www.afrikaworld.net/afrel/

    http://www.rootsandrooted.org/

    http://pub47.bravenet.com/faq/show.php?usernum=3951612168&password=&catid=898 &action=showcat

    http://www.orisha.org/

    http://www.crosscurrents.org/african.htm

    http://theafrican.com/Magazine/MagAncWis.htm

    http://africawithin.com/religion/santeria.htm

    http://africawithin.com/religion/cultural_setting.htm
     
  9. SekaniOK

    SekaniOK New Member MEMBER

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    ATR (African Traditional Religions) have no connection whatsoever to Christanity or the bible or jesus. and they do not go about spreading the religion like major western religions. i dont understand your comparison of the bible and ATR when the traditional religions of our ancestors existed prior to christianity and/or europeans
     
  10. SAMURAI36

    SAMURAI36 Banned MEMBER

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    Very true indeed.

    PEACE
     
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