Black History Culture : Question on ancient Egyptians being Black

Discussion in 'Black History - Culture - Panafricanism' started by African_Prince, May 9, 2006.

  1. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The Egyptian Copts are supposed to be the direct descendents of the ancient Egyptians (the liturgical language of the Egyptian Coptic Church is even the direct descendent of the ancient Egyptian language written in hieroglyphic, hieratic and demotic scripts ) and most of them look nowhere near Black. Egypt was converted to Christianity in the 1st century AD by St.Mark. They have maintained their Christian identity inspite of the expansion of Islam and Arab culture in the 7th century. I don't know about Egypt ( they look different then other 'North Africans' ) but the people of the Maghreb (northwest Africa ) are overwhelmingly of Berber or mixed Berber/Arab descent and are just Arabized culturally, the idea of a physical mass migration of Arabs is said to be a myth. I don't know about all the different peoples who invaded/conquered Egypt at one point, but was there ever a mass migration of Hyskos, Greeks, Romans, Turks,Arabs etc. to significantly change the appearance of the indiginous Egyptian people? If not, going by the appearance of the modern Egyptian Copts, I would have to conclude that the ancient Egyptians were not Black people...

    What do you think about this or what do you have to say about it?

    Although a great empire, I can do without the ancient Egyptians because Nubia (who ruled Egypt in the 25th dynasty ), Abysinnia, Songhay, Mali, Ghana, Great Zimbabwe, the Swahili states, Ife etc. were all Black African kingdoms, not to mention the very first homo sapien sapiens were Black African people who probably resembled the Khoi-San ('Bushmen') of the Kalahari and Tanzania today.

    Edit: I don't think the Olmecs, Moors (except for the Haratin who were Black slaves of the Berber/Arab Moors and adopted the language/identity ), Jesus, the original Jews and some other people in history that 'Afrocentrics' claim as Black were Black either.
     
  2. Therious

    Therious Banned MEMBER

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    WHAT PROOF IS THERE OF THESE PEOPLE BEING WHITE?

    DYNASTIC EGYPT! EGYPT IS A WHITE NAME, BEFORE THE GREEKS NAMED EGYPT EGYPT IT WAS A BLACK STATE. A SERIES OF WARS AND INVASIONS LED TO ITS WHITNING.

    THE HOARDS OF DIRTY A-RABS AND WHITES MIGRATING IS NO MYTH.

    JESUS IS DESCRIBED AS A DARK SKINNED MAN. SHOW WHERE HE IS DESCRIBED AS A WHITE BOY.

    WHY DID (STILL DO) WHITES AND A-RABS DISFIGURE FACIAL FEATURES OF ANCIENT KAMITIAN STATUES? THE SPHINX (A WHITE NAME) IS THE MOST VISIBLE EXAMPLE.
     
  3. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I don't for one second think that the ancient Kamitians (Egyptians) or 'Jesus Christ' were WHITE, I just don't believe they were Black/African. Jesus Christ was a Jew (if he existed), he lived in Palestine and would have looked like a typical Palestinian today (not the Ashkenezi Jews who are recent settlers from Europe ). Some people use the Beta Israel ('Falasha') of Ethiopia as proof that the original Jews were Black but they are an indiginous Cu****ic group who were converted to Judaism, although almost extinct, their ethnic language is Kayla and not Hebrew.

    As for the ancient Egyptians, the Egyptian Copts are the direct descendents of the ancient Egyptians. In 62AD St.Mark brought orthodox Christianity to Egypt, they are the largest Christian community in the 'Middle East' today. Like I said, for liturgical purposes they still use the pre-Arab/Islamic ancient Egyptian language (Coptic Egyptian is considered the last of the 6 stages that the Egyptian language can be divided into). I read somewhere that some of them even have names like 'Neferteri' and 'Ramses'. If they mixed with Arabs, how have they maintained their Christian identity for so long? If not Arabs, I don't know if any of the people who conquered them migrated on such a large scale to Egypt so as to outnumber the indiginous pop. and assimilate them physically. If they're mixed, I don't have any proof/evidence. I don't know how to post pictures, but most of them look like Middle Easterners.
     
  4. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    what about BC? way before Christ.
     
  5. Therious

    Therious Banned MEMBER

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    arabs took control of the nile valley around 600ad. pre-dynastic egypt was Balack state. Some argue palestine was under cotrol of afrikans before arabs. much like the u.s. was under control of idigeneous people until the whites came around.

    these a-rabs there now are thieves of the earth, they are not the origial inhabitants of the nile.
     
  6. Chucky

    Chucky Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I suggest that you start you search for your answers with this book:


    Destruction of Black Civilization : Great Issues of a Race from 4500 B.C to 2000 A.D by: Chancellor Williams

    Your current thought process is severely tainted with the European written history books.
     
  7. spicybrown

    spicybrown Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    "Question on ancient Egyptians being Black"

    Do you see dark Black people on earth now?

    I haven't read throught the whole initial post, but is there any reason why you feel they weren't Black?
     
  8. African_Prince

    African_Prince Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Yes

    Because the Egyptian Copts are the purest descendents of the ancient Egyptians and they aren't Black.

    They practiced the ancient Egyptian religion before 62AD

    How did the Egyptians who kept the Christian faith ( the Egyptian Copts ) maintain their Christian identity for so long? There are sometimes clashes between Muslims and Christians in Egypt until this day. Nubians absorbed some Arab settlers and some in Egypt are Arabized (and speak a Nubian dialect of Arabic) and to this day most Nubians are dark skinned, some have the facial features of Ethiopians/Somalis, others look like typical Bantu or West Africans, some have curly or wavy hair and some have kinky hair but they still look like Black people to this day. Look at North Sudan, most of the Arabs are clearly of African or mixed African/Arab descent.

    Where on Earth is the evidence that Palestine was ever under African control?

    I don't deny this. But the Berbers of the Maghreb (NW Africa ) are the indiginous or first people there and they are lighter then Arabs, they were there before Arabs and they are not Black. The purest Arabs are the Bedouins, the original Arabs looked like the ones from Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States. Most self-identified Arabs, even in other parts of the Middle East are really descended from people conquered by Arabs who adopted the Arabic language, culture and identity. Since the Sahara was formed, I don't think the people of North Africa have ever looked like Black Africans from the west, east, central and south because the climate is more similar to the 'Arabian' peninsula.

    When ancient Egypt comes up, people never seem to think about the modern Egyptian Copts who are the purest and direct descendents of the ancient Egyptians. The Egyptian Coptic Church still uses the final stage of the ancient Egyptian language. Unless the Egyptian Copts have mixed with non-Egyptian people (Arabs, Greeks, Romans, Turks etc. ), I'm assuming they looked like their ancestors.
     
  9. spicybrown

    spicybrown Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    African Prince stated:

    "Because the Egyptian Copts are the purest descendents of the ancient Egyptians and they aren't Black."

    How are they pure if there are documented invasions of lighhter peoples/races having raped and pillaged almost all Black civilizations? Your explanation of the Copts being the purest is as absurd as saying: "AA' came here Brown and Yellow skinned, because that is what we see nowadays". The first slaves brought here were extremely dark-skinned and some Browner. Same with the Ancient Egyptians. How do you explain tomb paintings depicting PITCH BLACK Egyptians? If the Copts aren't Black; what are they?

    BTW just because they don't possess the typical Negroid features doesn't remove them from Blackness. Perhaps you can provide a link, I'd like to see these non-(not)Black Ancient Egyptian descendants:)
     
  10. SAMURAI36

    SAMURAI36 Banned MEMBER

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    Says who? Them?

    These people don't even make up 9% of the current Egyptain population. In the meantime, the SAIDI Nubians comprise of nearly all of it.

    That's like White Khazarians claiming that they are the "purest descendants of Israel". So what?

    Show and prove.

    Copts are a product of the Macedonians, not the Nubian Kemetians.

    Not to mention, the term "COPTIC" is not an ethnic term, its a religious one. Ironically, the same as the word "JEW" has no bearing on ethnicity. A Jew can be lilly white (From Europe) or jet Black (from Ethiopia).

    Again, make them show and prove this.

    How are you able to speak on these Nubians, but in the same breath say that Kemetians were not Black?

    Why would they depict themselves as such, if they were not?

    Also, you do know what "Kemet" means, yes?

    What needs to take place here, is redefining of what "African" actually is. At no time were African people confined to the African Continent.

    Indigenous African Black people inhabited regions as far east as India.

    Again, not correct.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber

    The Berbers (also called Imazighen, "free men", singular Amazigh) are an ethnic group indigenous to Northwest Africa, speaking the Berber languages of the Afroasiatic family. In actuality, Berber is a generic name given to numerous heterogeneous ethnic groups that share similar cultural, political, and economic practices. It is not a term originated by the group itself, and indeed the word may have been derived from the Latin 'barbari', the forerunner of the English word 'barbarian'.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber#Genetic_evidence

    While population genetics is a young science still full of controversy, in general the genetic evidence appears to indicate that most northwest Africans (whether they consider themselves Berber or Arab) are predominantly of Berber origin, and that populations ancestral to the Berbers have been in the area since the Upper Paleolithic era. The genetically predominant ancestors of the Berbers appear to have come from East Africa, the Middle East, or both - but the details of this remain unclear. However, significant proportions of both the Berber and Arabized Berber gene pools derive from more recent migration of various Italic, Semitic, Germanic, and sub-Saharan African peoples, all of whom have left their genetic footprints in the region.

    Do you consider ITALIAN (ROMAN) and GERMAN to be indigenously African?

    A Berber is a MUTT, pure and simple.


    You don't THINK, or you don't KNOW?

    There are indigenous tribes in North Africa that are Black as pitch--The TUAREG, for instance.

    The Greco-Roman/Armenian/Eurasian/Mediterranean influx of foreign peoples has changed the cultural and ethnic landscape of Africa, in no less than 1,000years.

    Even Herodutus and Diodorius have spoken that the Kemetians and other Northern Africans were Black as night.

    Further, it should be known that the ancient land known as Kemet was not the little jigsaw puzzle piece that you see on the North Eastern most tip of Africa.

    Kemet spanded a wide and vast province; from the tip of Northern Africa, to as far south as Modern-day Tanzania, to as far west as Chad.

    And these people were not Black?

    Don't let modern day topography fool you. Plenty of African scholars have laid the ground work for showing just how much of the world was mothered by Black people.

    People don't think about them, in the same manner that they don't think about the Askhenazim Jews that inhabit modern-day Israel---all of whom are from Poland, Germany, Russia, and Austria.

    If you don't see these Europeans as being indigenous to the Middle East, then there is no reason for you to see these Greco-Roman, Maco-Byzantinian Copts as Kemetic.

    HOTEP
     
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