Black Spirituality Religion : Question for the different religions that use the same bible

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by SPEAKFREEDOMnet, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. SPEAKFREEDOMnet

    SPEAKFREEDOMnet Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    147
    Ratings:
    +147
    Is there a certain number of converts, repentee’s, etc, that must be reached before God can let up off the curse(s) that he has us (Black Christians/Israelites, Muslims, etc) under?

    If I’m not mistaken, when ever there was a warning about blessings & curses, it was always conditional. In other words, if you disobey…curses, yet if you obey or turn from your wicked ways…blessings.

    When ever I hear someone explaining away the suffering of our people as punishment from God for turning away from Him, I often wonder about all of our people, the world over, who have converted, repented and continue to serve faithfully. Why do they suffer the same fate as unbelievers, backsliders, disobeyers, etc?

    Did not God say to Lot that He would save the city if only one righteous person was found in the city? What about the millions of our people who serve faithfully and sincerely, does not God judge the heart? Why must the entire “race” continue to suffer when so many have turned back or better yet, never turned from God?

    How many must repent to have the curse lifted? Does submitting to Allah, confessing Jesus or repentance negate the curse(s) imposed on your life prior to turning to God? Is it even possible for these curses to be lifted…right now...here on earth?

    Thank you for taking the time.
     
  2. SPEAKFREEDOMnet

    SPEAKFREEDOMnet Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    147
    Ratings:
    +147
    No response. Interesting, considering the many threads on religion here at Destee. I realize there are many questions in my OP, maybe to many for one person to answer, and I surely don't expect anyone to speak for a faith they do not subscribe too, however it seems unfair to keep reading & hearing that we as afrikan/black people are in our current condition due to our disobedience to God, yet ignored when ask to explain it further.

    One thing seems clear, each faith claims that we are the chosen people of the scriptures (different Interpretations of course) If this is true, then we are also the receivers of the blessings and curses of the same scriptures correct? I'm just trying to understand how those blessing & curses apply today if at all?

    Thanks again for taking the time.
     
  3. thePreacher

    thePreacher Banned MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    815
    Occupation:
    Agent Of Change
    Location:
    Dogville, USA
    Ratings:
    +815
    The books in the bible reflect the biases of the men who wrote them.

    Hence, God is portrayed as choosing the Hebrew children, out of all of mankind, to be his Chosen People. What sense does that make considering that God is also protrayed as running those same people around in the wilderness of Sin for 40 years because of their wickedness, particularly because of their rejection of God? Truth be told, much of the Old Testament involves prophecies about how God was going to punish his Chosen People because of their unrighteousness.

    Some religions claim that black people, and not those of the synagogue of Satan, are the real Chosen People. But, that approach still leaves you with the inconsistencies SPEAKFREEDOMnet articulated so well.

    All this can only be reconciled by admitting that the bible is not the inerrant Word of God, but rather an example of tares and wheat being allowed to grow up together. Jesus talked about this in Matthew 13:24-30.

    If there is a God, and I say there is, he [she? it?] has got to be somewhere shaking his head, jumping up and down mad, and screaming at the top of his/her/its spiritual lungs:

    "Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me."
     
  4. SPEAKFREEDOMnet

    SPEAKFREEDOMnet Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    147
    Ratings:
    +147
    Istlota,
    Thank you for taking the time to respond. What is your understanding of blessings and curses mentioned in the OP? What I'm respectfully asking is how do the blessings and curses of the bible apply to us today?
     
  5. Black-king

    Black-king Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,943
    Likes Received:
    715
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +720
    First of all Muslims Allah has nothing to do with the Bible, get that out of the way first.
    Secondly 1/3 of our people need to repent while the 144000 men of God needs to be sealed before Christ comes back which will lift the curse that we are in.


    You are correct.

    They have repented according to the way that the white men taught them, but most of our people have not repented according to the Bible, they don't even consider themselves to be the people of the Bible, they have no clue who they are worshipping, as it is in John 4:22 Most our people have white Jesus in their mind, they are lost.


    Your questioning as if the people are serving God, the way you worded your questions, sound like something come straight out of Joel Osteen sermon, God judges your heart and action, most our people are wicked in their heart and actions, they don't keep keep commandments one.


    What does Allah have to do with Jesus? You are all over the place? let me ask you a question are you a so called African American?
     
  6. SPEAKFREEDOMnet

    SPEAKFREEDOMnet Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    147
    Ratings:
    +147
    No offense or confusion intended Black-king. My only reason for addressing my questions to all three faiths (Christians, Israelites & Muslims) is simply because all three use the bible to some extent to proselytize.

    For example: http://pressthat.wordpress.com/2007/05/08/similarities-between-the-bible-and-the-quran/
    "The Qur’an and Bible possess many similarities as the holy scriptures of Islam and Christianity, respectively. They consist of narratives, teachings, poetry, and rebuking, many narratives contain the same basic events and figures…” “The Qur’an and Bible have over 50 people in common, typically in the same narratives…” And correct me if I’m wrong Black-king, but Israelites use the bible as well.

    But more importantly, as it relates to this thread, I have heard & seen all three reference/quote the blessings and curses of the bible to explain the present condition of our people.

    Black-king, perhaps I should have asked this question first: can you please explain exactly what curse our people are under? How exactly is it supposes to affect us in this world today?

    Thank you.
     
  7. thePreacher

    thePreacher Banned MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    815
    Occupation:
    Agent Of Change
    Location:
    Dogville, USA
    Ratings:
    +815
    I assume by OP that you meant OT, but have the same problem I have. That problem being that sometimes my fingers do not type what my mind thinks.

    Everything is a consequence of divine intent. And, by divine intent, I mean what the Merovingian called Causality. It is the Way of all things:


    Bible based religions teach that men, because of free will, choose the path we live. This is the basis of belief that it is just for God to bless some and curse others. Et al, God blessses those who choose to obey him and God curses those who choose to disobey him.

    But, there are some serious flaws in that logic.

    If God is all-knowing, omnescient, then there is no getting around the fact that God knew, before he created Satan, that Satan would disobey. Which would mean God knew he was creating a being who would go on to cause pain and suffering to every man, woman, boy, and girl ever born. Yet, God created Satan anyway. Which means Satan is doing God's Will --- exactly what God intended him to do.

    Similarly, if God is indeed omnescient, then he knew perfectly well, when he created Adam and Eve, that they would eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. It would be like me putting a two year old in a room full of candy, yet telling that child not to eat of that candy.

    Which means, again, that if Adam and Eve sinned, they did so because they fulfilled God's Will --- that they did exactly what God intended them to do.

    Causality --- it is the Way of all things.

    Bible based religions, of course, reject this as heresy. Adherents of these religions lust for their God of hate and of vengence and of rage to curse the majority of mankind to an eternity of suffering in hell. They think justice requires that the bad guys be punished for their sins. And, of course, they consider themselves and those who believe as they do to be the good guys.

    But ... there is that troubling place in the bible where Paul seems to say exactly what I am saying:

    Romans 9:15-20
    "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?"

    I have yet to hear an adherent to a bible based religion admit that Paul meant exactly what it sounds like he meant. No, they will argue, that cannot be true, for if it is, than how could a God of love curse the majority of men for doing exactly what God hardeneth their hearts to do?
    Well, here is what is. And, admittedly, I say this knowing few will accept what I am saying as the gospel truth.

    When you dream, SPEAKFREEDOMnet, your mind creates all sorts of dream characters --- some good guys and some bad guys. But, the bad guys can hardly be blamed, or sent to an eternal of hell, for being bad guys because, after all, they can only do what you --- the Dreamer --- intend for them to do.

    The Real World works the same way. We, all men, only appear to be distinct individuals with Free Will. In truth, as Jesus tried to tell us in John 17:20-23, we are One even as Christ and the Father are One.

    Or, as some poets have described it, we are all thoughts in the mind of God.

    We are all dream characters in the mind of the Divine Dreamer. In the End of all Days, the Master will awake, and all will return to the One Mind.

    Romans 14:11
    "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

    Not just those who are blessed, SPEAKFREEDOMnet ...

    Not excluding those who are cursed, my brother ....

    But _every_ knee.
     
  8. largo

    largo Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    283
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings:
    +286
    I always say whether or not one believes the scriptures to hold truths or not is irrelevant when it comes to simply reading what is written. So, read the Scriptures again, more carefully. Read them in Hebrew and Greek if you can. You maybe able to answer your own questions. For whatever reason, there is a lot more there than many think and whole lot not there that many think. And I am not even speaking of matters of interpretation, but rather there are many who have not really read the scriptures. Or have read them, but with preconceived notions that kept them from seeing what is actually written. A couple of examples. How many times have you encountered the question of where did Cain get his wife? Genesis 3 reveals where, but how many read those words and never see it, never quite catch that? Sodom is another example. The scriptures do not say what many think about Sodom, nor do ancient references. The idea of Sodom and homosexuality is a modern tale. Scriptures do not actually speak of homosexuality and Sodom nor do ancient references.

    The word chosen causes a lot of controversy. Israel entered into a covenant with Yahweh. A promise to teach and be an example. Chosen in a lot of people's mind means special or better than. Israel was not chosen for anything like that. Those notions have no place when speaking of Israel being chosen. Israel's ancestor Abraham was tested and challenged by Yahweh. Who knows how many years it took before he was able to show himself approved. After his trials, Yahweh considered him his friend and chose a part of his lineage for a task. I do not think many really understand just what that task entailed. Just how very serious the covenant was and just exactly what was going on in the world in those days, in those ancient times that such a covenant was granted, instituted.

    Blessings and curses. According to scripture, Israel was presented with two paths. Two end results. One path meant blessings for Israel specifically and humans in general. The other path, very serious consequences/curses for Israel. Scriptures make it clear that Israel did not keep the covenant and therefore did not receive the blessings promised them, but rather fell under the curses promised them.

    I sometimes say that understanding of Scripture, (all of them, because the Ancient Egyptians wrote some of the earliest Scriptures, and black folks wrote the original scriptures we call the Bible) is akin to the understanding of slavery among the diaspora or history. Many kind of know about it, but not much past the surface.

    Even if one does not believe in scripture as the word of Yahweh, they say what they say.
     
  9. Black-king

    Black-king Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,943
    Likes Received:
    715
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +720
    Again I won't mind answering your questions, you didn't answer mine, Are you a descendant of the slave trade in America?
     
  10. cherryblossom

    cherryblossom Banned MEMBER

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,252
    Likes Received:
    5,505
    Gender:
    Female
    Ratings:
    +5,560
    No, God did NOT say that to Lot.

    God was speaking to ABRAHAM.

    Abraham was "bargaining" with God and went from 50 to 45 to 30 to to 20 to 10......and God said that He would not destroy the city if He found TEN righteous men in the city.

    Gen. 18:

    [22] And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
    [23] And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
    [24] Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
    [25] That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
    [26] And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
    [27] And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
    [28] Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
    [29] And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
    [30] And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
    [31] And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
    [32] And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
    [33] And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.
     
Loading...