Black Spirituality Religion : Question for Promoters of Jesus

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Music Producer, Dec 31, 2005.

  1. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Question for Promoters of Jesus:

    Rv:22:16: I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    Isa:14:12: How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    English Bible:
    How are you fallen from heaven, O bright star, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, you who ruled the nations!

    Why does Jesus in his own words refer to himself using attributes reserved by GOD for Lucifer or one that is Fallen from Heaven?

    Please explain.
    :thinking:
     
  2. Sefirot

    Sefirot Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Perhaps you should focus on how "Lucifer" does not carry with it a negative denotation per se. In fact, he himself wasn't even initially considered such a bad guy.
    Lucifer means a Being of light or illuminated one. It's a generic term, not a name. Similar to "Lord." "Jesus" is also a Being of light, an illumined.
    Although, it is most certainly "the devil" and ways as such that the bible and society would have you to follow.
     
  3. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Brotha Aqil spoke extensively on this last year
    http://destee.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39138&highlight=lucifer+light+bearer

    The conclusion of his study indicates that we have absolutely no reference to determine who Lucifer is other than the literal translation of light bearer. In other words, this is a title not a person. The word Lucifer appears no where else than in this verse and only in the KJV at that. Church tradition has equated the name with satan but there is nothing in the context to support this. In fact, if you begin reading at verse four you will find that verse twelve is part of a song the prophet says the children of Israel will sing to mock a very powerful yet very human king.

    Lucifer is the Latin word for the star of the morning or Venus. So ask yourself this question, how did a Latin word work its way into a Hebrew text supposedly written thousands of years before there was a Latin language. Answer. St. jerome.
     
  4. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Who told you Lucifer could not manifest as a person? That concept and your trying to say that even go against the 666 theologies of Servants of Jesus. In their 666 theologies even they permit the precept that Lucifer can manifest as a person.

    Lucifer is the first created / born Son of GOD that GOD Commanded to fall to the earth and prove the worthiness of man. This is another hint to the concept……

    Jn:8:58: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    The only Sons of GOD that existed before Abraham are these……

    Gen:6:4: There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

    English Version:
    There were Nefilim in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men of old, men of renown.

    The Hebrew word “Nefilim” means “Fallen”. Thus Jesus is telling the reader exactly who and what he is and represents but without knowledge of the Old Testament; which Servants of Jesus have been taught to despise the people of it, you would have no knowledge of what Jesus is saying. The New Testament builds an Army against the Jew for being the murderers of, from the Servant of Jesus point of view, God, Salvation, Mans last Hope.

    ‘Isa:14:12: How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!’

    That to me is pretty much self-explanatory.

    So I guess we can take Psalms 2 and also exclude it from the entire Bible because it is presented to the reader as a Song or Poem?

    The translators of the Books understood Hebrew and Latin and new exactly how to represent a Hebrew word or Phrase in the Latin language. They wrote it to not be obvious unless one took the time to pay attention and study.
     
  5. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Dude, as many times as you have been WARNED why do you continue with this line of propaganda??!!

    "Lucifer" is NOT a "Hebrew" word.

    Furthermore, "Jesus" is NOT the AUTHOR of any old testament scripture. "Scripture" was written by SCRIBES. There are several authors of the Book of Isaiah but "Jesus" was NOT one of them.

    So your assertion that "Jesus" is referring to himself as "Lucifer" has zero basis in fact.

    Black people are divided enough so who profits from your argument or belief that "Jesus is Lucifer"??!!:censored:
     
  6. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Because no one has stepped up and disproved it with the Divine Breath of the Bible. When one reduces the Bible to the Specific Word of GOD and Jesus a true perception is revealed. That perception is Jesus is Lucifer sent by GOD to cleans the earth and setup its judgment. Well, how does one go about causing judgment to man? It is simple; make them reject GOD, The Creator, The Father.

    The Old Testament warned of an evil religion and people that would follow that religion. What makes you think the New Testament are excluded from being that religion?

    OK, I agree, so lets use the passage that reflects the Hebrew wording in a better English Translation.

    English Bible:
    Isa:14:12:How are you fallen from heaven, O bright star, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, you who ruled the nations!

    Now lets compare the words of Jesus…….

    Rv:22:16: I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    In looking at the better Hebrew translation we see that Jesus’ description of himself matches even better.

    So my question continues to stand, why does Jesus assign attributes to himself that GOD assigned to One that has Fallen from Heaven?

    It don’t matter who wrote it. What matters is how it was written. If the writings depict the information as being Spoken by GOD such as “Thus saith the LORD” or “The LORD said unto me”, or expresses the information as being from the Divine Breath of GOD, then that alone is what makes the information or passage valid because it is the only information GOD can be accounted of.

    You can use the same philosophy on the New Testament and Jesus. GOD or Jesus can not be held accountable for words that are not spoken or presented as their own words or words that are NOT of the Divine Breath. This is taught to you by GOD……

    Jer:17:5: Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

    When you place words of Peter, Paul, John, Mark etc…. over and above the Specific Word of GOD you are making flesh your arm in perceiving GOD. GOD has HIS Own Doctrine, Teachings and Philosophy.

    As I continue my study of religions I am know reading more and more information about ATRs, mainly the Dogon in whom I am starting to suspect all religious ideas have sprung from. Even the Dogon have an entity they refer to as the Son of GOD (Amma). In the Dogon religion the Son of Amma was evil, they referred to it as the Jackal. Now you see why the Dogon resisted and held off Christian attempts to infiltrate their religion and culture. Christian missionaries were basically showing them a religion telling the Dogon to worship the Jackal, Son of GOD. I would say my perception has more merit then those that say Jesus is the Messiah. My perception can be found throughout time and study of even ancient African religions. All of them had what they call the Trickster or Deceptive One and most of the time the Trickster was a direct creation by the Supreme Being of that polytheistic system.

    It is through the works of the Trickster / Lucifer / The Fallen One that GOD will have reason to judge the white nations that rule the earth today and place the Negro that does not reject HIM back as an Empire as in the days of old when we ruled. But we will be a smarter and more loyal nation to our GOD, the Supreme Being because we would have witnessed the destruction and fall of those that reject and diminish GOD. When you step back and look at the entire Bible you will see, GOD cleansing Israel, is HIS whole Works. And in doing so HE may save some whites that see the Truth of the matter.

    And what is it that divides us?
    It is our failure to recognize The Father as our GOD and only GOD. It is our failure to see this.

    Deut:6:4: Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

    It is our failure to recognize that Israel is a large group of Africans that GOD chose to Work a glorious Works, to build a religion that has thus far been about 8,000 years in the making and through this Works all people and races, on earth have their opportunity to reign as a great Kingdom.

    So when the last great nation is setup to reign forever, the nation of GOD, none of the previous nations will be in the position to complain because the LORD will simply show them the destruction their own hand has wroth upon the earth.

    Isa:14:20: Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned

    Do you need me to give you the vision and perception of that passage, or can you figure it out?
     
  7. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I do not need for you to give men anything nor is there anything I need to 'figure out'

    You say, "Now lets compare the words of jesus" then proceed to cire from the Book of Revelations!!??

    yeshua, spoke ARAMAIC and it has not been proven that he knew how to write in ARAMAIC let alone the ability to write in hebrew, Greek or Latin and therefore YOU CAN NOT PROVE that Yeshua IS the author of the Book of Revelations.

    So you questing will "continue to stand" on shaky ground because it is barely standing on a faulty premise to begin with.

    PBUY
     
  8. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You steel don’t understand what it means to believe in GOD or have Faith in the Power of your god.

    In books that were written in the days when man had a fear of the gods and respected GOD, if the particular passages or verses were written as that god or GOD actually Speaking the Words then we must abide by that, we must accept that.

    If there is a passage in the Old Testament or New Testament that is written as GOD Himself Speaking the Words, due to my faith in GOD, I must absolutely accept what it reveals. In my faith and understanding the Unlimited Power of GOD I must absolutely believe GOD controls, manipulates and sways what is written as HIS Word, as HE Himself Speaking.

    For me to believe that man, humans, could manipulate or lie as GODs Specific Word is for me to believe my GOD has no Authority or Power over men.

    I would advise you to take the exact same stance with your Jesus or Yeshua or whatever you want to call him.

    You seem to have no idea what true faith consist of. It is a madness to say you have faith in a god but yet say the white man or what ever made your god tell a lie or speak false doctrine or changed the words of your god. The specific word of that god is the only thing we have that is real and honorable. You can not degrade that word by relegating it to the power of men.

    When you say Jesus did not write something that is written as Jesus himself speaking the words, you are saying Jesus has no power, influence or control over men. I personally refuse to believe that because I believe we are controlled by the Word, the Word is not controlled by us.

    Now do you understand FAITH?
     
  9. Keita Kenyatta

    Keita Kenyatta going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Again, all of this nonsense is part of the system of white supremacy. We sit our behinds up here on this board and debate over issues that they have stuck their dirty little hands in and redefined. Christianity came out of Alexandria Egypt. Jesus, providing there was one, was born in North Africa. The power structure at that time was the Roman Empire...aka "white supremacy", just as it is now.

    They therefore in speaking against the lawyers, the pharisees and the government were in essence fighting against the white supremacy system at that time. In other words, once again....WE GOT TO STOP PLAYING WITH OURSELVES AND STOP THE MENTAL MASTERBATION going on as it relates to realty.
     
  10. river

    river Watch Her Flow MEMBER

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    Brotha Omo lets not get entangled in this man's nonsense. I just wantted to set the record straight but clearly he has an emotional need to believe that Jesus is satan so he points to the connection between Jesus and Lucifer even though there is not one shred of evidence that Lucifer is satan.. I have explained it. Brotha Aqil has explained it but old traditions die hard. Even your comments here show that you make a connection between Lucifer and satan. I will listen to anyone who can show me that these two are in fact the same but so far all I've heard is tradition, conjecture and insistance.

    Like you said Yeshua did not write any of this. But the spirit of Christ goes so far beyond the pages of the Bible. Jesus is only one manifestation of that spirit which has been coming to Earth for tens of thousands of years. No one can destroy that spirit by singling out one manifestation

    Peace, brotha Omo. We have wasted enough time trying to teach a man who refuses to learn.
     
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