Black People : Problems Between Pastor Ray Hagins and Ashra Kwesi

free2b_me

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Oct 28, 2008
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The Power of Suggestion

For goodness sakes, y'all are acting like he forcefully declared with almighty Power and sole authority that Ashra Kwesi should be an enemy. Instead of focusing on that, how about looking at the entire situation for what it is...

KWABENA
I am asking that you regard Ashra Kwesi as an enemy to Afrikan unity and empowerment for the following reasons:
:em19:This my brotha is a powerful statement, coming from a powerful man. You do know the power of suggestion and the power of words right?? :gossip:This man has a lot of influence upon his members, people who follow his message and the like. I see, that he has even influenced you as well. Please do not take offense, but since you, like the rest of us, have not heard Kwesi's side of the story, it appears that you are biased already based on your association with Dr Hagins. That being said, this is a common thing that happens a lot when we either befriend someone and or become closely indoctrinated with their message, we then feel it's our duty to take on the beef as if it were ours, with as much fervor, as if it was done to us personally. I could be wrong, and if I am I stand corrected. But I don't think so. There is nothing wrong with you sharing this letter with us in the hopes that we will be informed of the mishap and become enlightened by the experience of a hopeful resolution. That was your job in this, not to join in and sway the masses. Black people are very capable of deciphering through stuff and making a decision, but not based on a one sided story. That is how I see it. Since we are compassionate people, with different mind sets and opinions based on our individual experiences, we are bound to disagree sometimes. And that is ok. Let us debate, let us pick at this, but by the end of the day, it is still only one side of the story and I would rather stay neutral until all the data is in. I know I made my earlier comments, but please note, it is based on one side of the story:SuN018:
:tennis:
 

truetothecause

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Sometimes, some people are not meant to have a relationship. For the cause or not. Maybe, the collective, is suppose to learn something from this.:?: Maybe that is the true lesson in this. What are you gonna take from it?:?: Are you gonna side with Dr Hagins, and make Kwesi your personal enemy? :SuN004: There is no open court, this chapter was closed 9 years ago. Now, what is open, is your perception of this drama, and what are you gonna take from this and how are you going to apply it to future implications, fear and judgements? :?: You can see what it looks like, when two powerful men, have division, and further tries to divide the rest of the community. That, to me, is the only open court that the masses must deal with. Kwesi, I feel is at peace with this and is sleeping real good at night. :sleep:While everyone else, Dr Hagins included, is staying up late at night and pacing the floor! :run:These, of course, are my 2cts;) or is that 15cts?:?::eek:oops::eeek:
Greetings SiS free2b_me!

I'm not sure what you are giving "st8 up and without a chaser" yet, I appreciate hearing your views on this. It appears in part, this st8 up thing is being offered to me since you referenced what is in "open court" which I suggested.

The "open court" I am referring to is the one happening right now as many Folks in the Afreekan Conscious Community are NOW fully aware of what has been brewing between the two...Hagins and Kwesi.

I have had occasion to meet Kwesi and I have and had at that time my own concerns about his vibe and primary purpose. For me, hearing Hagins side has added some weight to my own suspicions.

Kwesi is not the only Scholar of Afreekan Descent I have issue with AND I often question myself as to what I would do were I to have written books, created DVD's and have my name in the limelight for the knowledge I have acquired. When I think for myself along those lines, it has tempered my personal critiques on ANY Scholar who has knowledge that WE all desperately need to gain Power and FREE~DOME.

I trust the COLLECTIVE is "supposed to learn" something from this and every other experience we have in relation to each other and others.

In part, I hear your views centered primarily on the INDIVIDUAL vs. the COLLECTIVE. I am asking what ...as a COLLECTIVE might we consider when shyuations that are HARMING "US" (an injury to one is an injury to all) present itself.

For me, I'm not "siding" with anyone. Yet perhaps in some ways I AM for the moment "siding" with Hagins. What I appreciate is his seeming willingness to bring this issue TO THE COLLECTIVE, calling for open communication since his efforts to address it directly with Kwesi has gone ignored....IF what he says is the Truth. If it is not, Kwesi would do well to SPEAK UP and not allow his Voice to remain silent from the COLLECTIVE who are now AWARE of this beef.

IF this "chapter was closed 9 yrs. ago" THEN I suspect WE would not be having this conversation. Yet, here we are 9 years after the initial injury happened and Hagins was clear in his intent to RESOLVE/heal that injury.

Yes...the masses are seeing what happens when ish is not dealt with and left unchecked. Maybe the next set of "powerful men" (or women) would do well to address ish as it arises. Learn and practice the art of healthy and effective COMMUNICATION. Had it seems, Kwesi been open and willing to do so, WE would not be here having THIS conversation.

I still ask the question about ACCOUNTABILITY to the COLLECTIVE and not just for these two. One thing I've learned in this life and heard growing up..."it's not the first time...and won't be the last". This has been proven over and over again as is also said...."there's nothing new under the Sun".

I would probably do well to start another thread asking the question re: Accountability in the Community. There is another thread where a brother (can't recall his name) shared some PROTOCOLS for the Afreekan COLLECTIVE as we work to RE~build our Nation. Certain things are NOT to be "tolerated" "pimping the Revolution or Knowledge" is one thing I would advocate being one of the top five on that list.
Yes...it seems many are doing just that and for a variety of reasons. Many of those reasons are self-evident...need for provision of basic needs acquired with MONEY. Until WE learn how to work as a COLLECTIVE vs. "individuals" we will be bound by the standards set....CAPITALISM.

As a people, WE have been given lots of ish "st8 up with no chaser"....like getting screwed anally with no Vaseline...or whipped without clothes. IF that is what YOU offer in this struggle for liberation....THEN I'll make sure to keep my distance.

M.E.
:hearts2:
 

free2b_me

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Oct 28, 2008
597
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Sista True

Greetings SiS free2b_me!

I'm not sure what you are giving "st8 up and without a chaser" It appears in part, this st8 up thing is being offered to me since you refereyet, I appreciate hearing your views on this.nced what is in "open court" which I suggested.

The "open court" I am referring to is the one happening right now as many Folks in the Afreekan Conscious Community are NOW fully aware of what has been brewing between the two...Hagins and Kwesi.

I have had occasion to meet Kwesi and I have and had at that time my own concerns about his vibe and primary purpose. For me, hearing Hagins side has added some weight to my own suspicions.

Kwesi is not the only Scholar of Afreekan Descent I have issue with AND I often question myself as to what I would do were I to have written books, created DVD's and have my name in the limelight for the knowledge I have acquired. When I think for myself along those lines, it has tempered my personal critiques on ANY Scholar who has knowledge that WE all desperately need to gain Power and FREE~DOME.

I trust the COLLECTIVE is "supposed to learn" something from this and every other experience we have in relation to each other and others.

In part, I hear your views centered primarily on the INDIVIDUAL vs. the COLLECTIVE. I am asking what ...as a COLLECTIVE might we consider when shyuations that are HARMING "US" an injury to one is an injury to all present itself.

For me,I'm not "siding" with anyone. Yet perhaps in some ways I AM for the moment "siding" with Hagins. What I appreciate is his seeming willingness to bring this issue TO THE COLLECTIVE, calling for open communication since his efforts to address it directly with Kwesi has gone ignored....IF what he says is the Truth. If it is not, Kwesi would do well to SPEAK UP and not allow his Voice to remain silent from the COLLECTIVE who are now AWARE of this beef.
Sista, again, you are biased in some ways, and I am not a follower of either doctrine, so, really, I am just coming from a neutral stand point, if you can understand that, outside looking in. To me, I feel we all interpret information differently according to our own experiences. So I ask, did it harm you during those 9 years when you didn't hear the "one side" of the story?" Maybe not. Maybe you went on about your business, doing what you do like everyone else. When it really became an issue, is when Dr Hagins came out with this letter. Or when after 1, 3 , 5 or 7 to 9 years, people started being nosey, and asking, "what ever happened to Bro Kwesi?" This is just some ish that I am throwing out there for thought. Please, don't take offence.

What I am trying to understand is this Sista Truetothecause, at what point, do you or we, as the masses decide this is our beef too?? I am just asking, whether we can agree to disagree on this or not, would you still stay your distance from a sista because I don't see what you see?



IF this "chapter was closed 9 yrs. ago" THEN I suspect WE would not be having this conversation. Yet, here we are 9 years after the initial injury happened and Hagins was clear in his intent to RESOLVE/heal that injury.
This is well understood sista, it is, but maybe, it was too much water under the bridge to go back 9 years prior for Kwesi. I'm just guessing. How would you feel, if someone came up to you, tryin to address some 9 year old ish, and you might feel like,"I'm Over It!". Even still, we don't know his reason to remain silent.


Yes...the masses are seeing what happens when ish is not dealt with and left unchecked. Maybe the next set of "powerful men" (or women) would do well to address ish as it arises. Learn and practice the art of healthy and effective COMMUNICATION. Had it seems, Kwesi been open and willing to do so, WE would not be here having THIS conversation.
Again, some people are just not meant to have a relationship.


I still ask the question about ACCOUNTABILITY to the COLLECTIVE and not just for these two. One thing I've learned in this life and heard growing up..."it's not the first time...and won't be the last". This has been proven over and over again as is also said...."there's nothing new under the Sun".

I would probably do well to start another thread asking the question re: Accountability in the Community.
This sounds good sista True, you should do that.


There is another thread where a brother (can't recall his name) shared some PROTOCOLS for the Afreekan COLLECTIVE as we work to RE~build our Nation. Certain things are NOT to be "tolerated" "pimping the Revolution or Knowledge" is one thing I would advocate being one of the top five on that list.

Yes...it seems many are doing just that and for a variety of reasons. Many of those reasons are self-evident...need for provision of basic needs acquired with MONEY. Until WE learn how to work as a COLLECTIVE vs. "individuals" we will be bound by the standards set....CAPITALISM.
Great point

As a people, WE have been given lots of ish "st8 up with no chaser"....like getting screwed anally with no Vaseline...or whipped without clothes. IF that is what YOU offer in this struggle for liberation....THEN I'll make sure to keep my distance

M.E.
:hearts2:
Sista, is it that serious?? I mean, did I convey that to you? I can be misUNDERSTOOD sometimes, but surely, you don't think that this is what i represent? But, if you did, then so be it.

I used your reference to "open court" because that's just what it was, a reference. I don't believe I quoted you:?:, because if I did, you wouldn't be trying to figure it out, you would know. You had some great points in that post, all I was trying to do was tie it into what I was saying. This is the reason that we have are different, we were not made to be put into little boxes and all come out the same or think the same. Just imagine the whole world of black concsiousness, the masses thinking the same:?: How far do YOU think we would get? The reason, which I am sure you know already know, but I am going to say it anyway, that we don't think the same, even wtih collective consciousness, is that, no one would bring to the table NEW, FRESH THOUGHTS.

Sista, if what I said, my own thoughts, in this struggle, just like you and everyone else, cuz we all bleed the same, will deter you from me, then, well please, don't let me get in your way as your head for the door.

Honestly, I don't think I said anything to you personally, to attack your character or your thought process, which I admire BTW. I am simply, being free2b me, that is it. If YOU, my sista of black collective consciousness in the struggle, is offended by something I voiced as my OPINION on, that is bigger than you or I, then, let me step back, and allow you passage. I don't know why it is, we black people, conscious or not, judge so hard, before being clear, on where the other person is coming from? Please tell me why, before I could respond to you, you already had your bags packed and on stand by?? In a case like this, I could easily be offended by this, but, being free2b me, well, it's gonna take a lot more than that. I understand that we all have differences of opinions, and I will roll with that.
 

KWABENA

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This my brotha is a powerful statement, coming from a powerful man. You do know the power of suggestion and the power of words right?
Who gave him that Power? Did he ever demand the support and position of influence he has, or did a select group of people give it to him?

Let us just admit that as a people, we are so fragile in the eyes and minds of World Leaders. We prove to them in many ways that we will always look up to them, and take everything they say and do seriously.

This implies that we are a people need to work on how we perceive Leaders, not act like they made us choose to call them leaders. We need to acknowledge that they are contributors, without highlighting them and picking one as more influential as another. It is a two-way responsibility.

KWABENA
 

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