Black Spirituality Religion : Praying in the Wrong Direction.....

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Ralfa'il, Mar 27, 2005.

  1. Ralfa'il

    Ralfa'il Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Allah commands us in the Koran 2:149:
    "From whereever you start from, turn your face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; that is indeed the truth from your Lord. And Allah is not unmindful of what you do"


    So when I pray I face the direction of Masjid Al-Haram which is SouthEast.

    But in most North American Masjids I've attended I notice that instead of praying toward the SouthEast which is the direction Mecca is from here....they pray toward the NorthEast.

    We know that all directions belong to Allah has anyone else noticed this also?
     
  2. info-moetry

    info-moetry STAFF STAFF

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    Salaamu Ralfa'il,

    Yes, this is true but as you said to Allah belongs all four corners of the Earth so I would believe that it matters not what direction one is facing, but rather the direction of that one's heart when praying to his/her Allah (God)

    I respectfully leave u in peace................

    A-Salaamu-A-Laikum!!!
     
  3. Ralfa'il

    Ralfa'il Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Salaams brutha Info.

    Thanx for your response.....

    By the way, are you in the Nation of Islam...Poor Righteous...Hebrew Israelite...non-denominational?
     
  4. AHMOSE

    AHMOSE Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Thanks for sharing this information might provide useful to some brothers behind bars.
     
  5. SAMURAI36

    SAMURAI36 Banned MEMBER

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    I agree with INFO in this respect.

    I think MUSLIMS--just like followers and practicioners of most other religions or spiritual systems--have been paying far to much attention to minor details such as this.

    Also, I think it's very key to remember, that it's not about praying to the East (at least not in orthodox ISLAM), but rather praying to the direction of MECCA.

    So then, if you were living on the North or South Poles, what direction woud you then pray to?

    Also, since the world is round/spherical, if you faced "west" and prayed, wouldn't your prayer travel around the world, and hit MECCA eventually (just longer than it would take if you faced "east"?

    I think the origins and reasons as to why we pray (SALAAT 5 to 7 times a day) is far more important than the direction that we lay down our prayer rug.

    MA'SALAAMU
     
  6. Ralfa'il

    Ralfa'il Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Samurai

    I think MUSLIMS--just like followers and practicioners of most other religions or spiritual systems--have been paying far to much attention to minor details such as this.

    Also, I think it's very key to remember, that it's not about praying to the East (at least not in orthodox ISLAM), but rather praying to the direction of MECCA.

    So then, if you were living on the North or South Poles, what direction woud you then pray to?

    Also, since the world is round/spherical, if you faced "west" and prayed, wouldn't your prayer travel around the world, and hit MECCA eventually (just longer than it would take if you faced "east"?

    I think the origins and reasons as to why we pray (SALAAT 5 to 7 times a day) is far more important than the direction that we lay down our prayer rug
    .



    Salaams brutha Samurai

    Whilst I have the upmost respect for you and what you "think"......

    Allah has made clear to us from the beginning of the Koran in chapter 2:



    144. Verily! We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad's ) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid- al-Harâm (at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction. Certainly, the people who were given the Scriptures (i.e. Jews and the Christians) know well that, that (your turning towards the direction of the Ka'bah at Makkah in prayers) is the truth from their Lord. And Allâh is not unaware of what they do.


    149. And from wheresoever you start forth (for prayers), turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (at Makkah), that is indeed the truth from your Lord. And Allâh is not unaware of what you do.

    150. And from wheresoever you start forth (for prayers), turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (at Makkah), and wheresoever you are, turn your faces towards, it (when you pray) so that men may have no argument against you except those of them that are wrong-doers, so fear them not, but fear Me! - And so that I may complete My Blessings on you and that you may be guided.


    He made it clear to us 3 times in a row (unpresidented) of how important it was for us to pray in the correct direction, that being of the Sacred Mosque.

    He didn't mention anything about 5, 6, or 7 prayers in the Koran.

    Infact, only about 3 prayer times are actually mentioned so I think the direction is most important in this case.
     
  7. SAMURAI36

    SAMURAI36 Banned MEMBER

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    SALAAM RALFA'IL:

    This is not correct whatsoever.

    The QUR'AN gives the precise 7 times (5 are obligatory, the other 2 are optional) for MUSLIMS to perform SALAAT:

    1 = SALAATUL FAJR
    QUR'AN 30:17....
    "So give glory to ALLAH when ye reach eventide, and when ye rise in the morning."

    2 = SALAATUDH DHUR
    QUR'AN 30:18.....
    "Yea, To HIM be the praise, in the heavens and on earth; And in the late afternoon."
    (**Note: "late afternoon" is a mistranslation. DHUR means "noon".)

    3 = SALAATUL ASR
    QUR'AN 2:238.....
    "Guard strictly your (habit of) prayers, especially the Middle Prayer...."
    (This translates into mid-afternoon prayer)

    4 = SALAATUL MAGHRIB
    QUR'AN 30:17
    "So give glory to ALLAH when ye reach the eventide."

    5 = SALAATUL ISHAA'
    QUR'AN 24:58
    "....And after the late-night prayer....."

    6 = SALAATUL ISHRAAQ
    QUR'AN 38:18
    "...Our praises at eventide and at break of day....."

    7 = SALAATUT TAHAJJUD
    QUR'AN 17:78
    "Establish regular prayers at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night....."

    These are the 7 phases of SALAAT that the QUR'AN perscribes.

    But more importantly, as I stated, do you know why these times run paralell to the sun's movements over the horizon?

    There is an ancient cultural reason for this, that dates back to the pre-Islamic times, when ALLAH was worshipped as part of a Trinity of deities.

    MA'SALAAM
     
  8. Ralfa'il

    Ralfa'il Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Samurai

    Salaam.......


    Brutha, what you just provided wasn't 7 TIMES for prayer....but 7 different passages in the Koran for 3 stated prayer times.


    There are still only 3 TIMES of the day mentioned for us to pray.

    Morning, mid-day, and night....just like the ancient Hebrews were instructed to pray



    And look at this passage you've provided:

    QUR'AN 2:238.....
    "Guard strictly your (habit of) prayers, especially the Middle Prayer...."



    Allah didn't tell us to guard our middle PRAYERS (plural) but the middle PRAYER (singular).

    If there are more than one prayers in between our first and last then why would He use the singular noun?


    I'm curious, do you consider yourself a Muslim?
     
  9. SAMURAI36

    SAMURAI36 Banned MEMBER

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    Brother, these phases of SALAAT:

    SALAATUL FAJR

    SALAATUDH DHUR

    SALAATUL ASR

    SALAATUL MAGHRIB

    SALAATUL ISHAA'

    SALAATUL ISHRAAQ

    SALAATUT TAHAJJUD

    Are all in the QUR'AN....You think I just made these names up?

    "MIDDLE PRAYER is the noon prayer, like the name indicates. It's singular because it's a designated time, like MORNING PRAYER (FAJR), or EVENING PRAYER.

    I can't be held responsible for your lack of understanding of QUR'ANIC translations.

    These are different times for prayer.

    I asked you previously, if you understood the reasoning behind why Muslims are instructed to pray in accordance to the path of the sun on the horizon, as well as its origins, and you never bothered to answer this.

    I'm not interested in debating IJTAHAD or the Sunnah with you, only getting to the roots of the origins of these cultural practices, and how the benefit us as a People on both a practice and spiritual level.

    I've already answered this, in that other thread in which you sought to question what I believe.

    MA'SALAAM
     
  10. Ralfa'il

    Ralfa'il Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Samurai

    Salaams brutha Sam.....


    I asked you previously, if you understood the reasoning behind why Muslims are instructed to pray in accordance to the path of the sun on the horizon, as well as its origins, and you never bothered to answer this.

    We observe the positions of the sun because that lets us know what time of the day it is to make our salaat.

    The fact that it originated in the Koran as a commandment from God is enough for me.





    Now brutha.....

    Only 3 times in a day does the Koran mention for prayer.

    If there was more than three then their would be MIDDLE PRAYERS (plural) than THE MIDDLE PRAYER (singular)

    Do you actuall prostrate 7 times a day?


    You are attempting to correct me on the number of times we are to pray a day yet when Allah CLEARLY states 3 times in a row that we are to face the Sacred Mosque for prayer...you say it doesn't matter.


    How can you gag at a gnat when you've just swallowed an entire elephant dry?
     
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