Black Spirituality Religion : PRAYER

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by kaguvi, Oct 13, 2005.

  1. kaguvi

    kaguvi Active Member MEMBER

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    What's the point in praying to god for something?

    According to most people, god answers all prayers. Sometimes the answer is exactly what the prayer asked for, other times the answer is different because god nows what's really good for the prayer.

    Since god is all knowing, god must already know what's good for the person who prays even before being prayed to. So what's the point to the prayer.

    Surely god is going to do what's best for the person who prays, whether or not that person prays
     
  2. karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    I agree prayer is not necessary in terms of asking God for something. If fate means for something to happen it will happen.

    However, for many (including myself), prayer helps you feel more in touch with your spirituality. It comforts you, and makes you feel closer with God. Also your mind and spirit tend to be more calm during this state which can allow for a deeper thought process. And of course with a deeper thought process there is a greater chance of being awarded 'thoughts' from spiritual sources on how to solve your problem.
     
  3. kaguvi

    kaguvi Active Member MEMBER

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    For many prayer teaches falls into 3 general categories:

    1. To ask for forgiveness
    2. To give thanks
    3. To ask for help (material, emotional, anything)


    1. If you ask for forgiveness, that would mean that you have wronged someone and you are apologizing and pleading for mercy for your actions. But in this case, since God knew you were going to do that "bad thing" and made you anyway, wouldn't that mean that it was ok for Him that you did it? So, why ask for forgiveness?

    2. In giving thanks, you're saying thank you for whatever good deed has been done in your favor. You'd say it for the sake of saying it and you'd say it in order to show that person you appreciate what was done. In this case, what would God care if you appreciate what He's done? If He does care, wouldn't that imply that He has feelings? If so, if we didn't give thanks, would He feel bad? Why?

    3. If you ask for help, you are in need of something and you're asking for someone to come to your aid. In this case, since it was God that created everything-wouldn't it mean that He also created that situation that you're in? Even if it wasn't His actions that brought you there, since He knew that predicament was going to happen to you and still made you, doesn't that mean that He kind of wanted you to be in that situation? In that case, what good will asking help do if the one you're asking it from put you in that situation in the first place?

    LETS SAY: God is everywhere, everytime (omnipresent); God knows everything (omniscient) and God all-powerful (omnipotent). This means that God knew of every bad deed ever done, knew of every war ever fought and knew of every bad calamity that has come- and yet, He still chose to make us. He knows what we're going to do, when we're going to do it and how we're going to end up. Even if it was our choice to do the things we do, He still knew about it in the first place.
     
  4. karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    What you said in most of your post is correct. What you have observed are inconsistencies/fallacies in religious logic behind prayer.

    The only thing that I don't agree with is what you said in number 1... that God makes us do things. God doesn't make us do anything. Just because He allows us freedom doesn't mean that it isn't still our choice. For example, if a parent allows their teenager to go out on a date and the teenager gets pregnant, do you blame the parent for what happened? I mean, at some point you've got to let your kids have a bit of freedom even if the freedom could lead to a bad choice. If the choice is made, it would be the kid's fault not the parent's. I believe things work the same way when it comes to God and His/Her human creation. He/She could be like the overprotective parent that locks us in our room, or He/She could give us freedom while guiding us to make the proper choices.

    But besides that I agree that prayer is not 'necessary' in terms of getting God/fate to do something. I also do not believe 'worship' in the Christian sense is necessary either. The type of homage you owe God is the same type you owe your parents... you don't have to be a butt-kisser, but you should respect and love them for the things they've done for you.
     
  5. sonnee01

    sonnee01 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Interesting Question…

    Well…prayer brings me peace. I have been in some stressful situations and I really feel that had I not prayed the results of my actions would have rendered awful results for myself as well as those involved.

    The calmness that prayer brings me is indescribable….it helps me focus on the unseen and to know that everything is temporal and whatever I am dealing with is subject to change. So having said all that, prayer for me is a place of peace and comfort.
     
  6. Deepvoice

    Deepvoice Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I use to ask myself and still do, why does God want us to pray when he knows everything ahead of time? That type of questioning will send you into circles. It does me.
     
  7. info-moetry

    info-moetry STAFF STAFF

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    peace,

    Do you meditate?
     
  8. kaguvi

    kaguvi Active Member MEMBER

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    I didn't say God made us DO anything, I said God made US, even though he knew what we would (freely?) choose to do.

    Why then did he make us and not some OTHER beings with freewill who happen to freely make better choices?

    That's the real crux of the question, as I see it.


    It makes me think whether God has "middle knowledge", counterfactual knowledge of what possible but uncreated free-willed beings WOULD do if He created them. Middle knowledge presupposes that counterfactual propositions have a truth-value, since if they don't there's nothing there for God to know.

    Other than that, I mostly agree with your replies. God's eternal knowledge of our failings does not constitute approval of what we do.
     
  9. kaguvi

    kaguvi Active Member MEMBER

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    :?: So are you saying that all bad things happen "for a greater good" pretty suspicious. If freewill (choice) is genuine, then moral evil really IS gratuitous. Freewill makes moral evil possible, if it made it necessary it wouldn't be "free."
     
  10. Radical Faith

    Radical Faith Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Prayer is more than asking God to give me the lucky number so they can hit the lottery. Our prayers acknowledges our need for God in our lives. Just like when an infant cries when it needs or desires something from it's parents we need to pray. When an infant cries the infant is essentually saying "I need something that I can't give myself". From the parent's perspective the infant's crying means someone need me for something. This is the essence of prayer. Prayer is the dialog between a child and a parent. How could that not be necessary?
     
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