Black People : Philadelphia Police 2008

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by oldsoul, May 8, 2008.

  1. OldSoul

    OldSoul Permanent Black Man PREMIUM MEMBER

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  2. phynxofkemet

    phynxofkemet Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Officer / Overseer

    From what I can determine, this area of Philidelphia is called Hunting Park and is predominantely Hispanic? Is that right? I had to do some research here because I'm not familiar with Philly, and I want to undertand the landscape that I'm looking at. James from Philly, and any other resident is welcome to shed light on my findings, please). The city on paper seems very polarized. With a few upscale communities but also areas like Hunting Park and Fairhill where the per capita income is around $11,000. I've also noticed that Philly has an a high murder rate and there was a Call to Action which was supported by 3000 men?

    The news report says that these three men (unidentifiable from the footage) are charged with criminal conspiracy, aggravated assault, simple assault and reckless endangerment. Now, again, maybe someone better versed in this state's criminal code can clarify for me the serious nature of these crimes. Simple assualt looks like what Canadians would call a summary offense (meaning you would get a fine of up to $2,000 or 6 months jail time). The conspiracy and aggravated assualt charges appear to be indictable (federal jail time). Not that this condones what we're seeing, I'm just looking to understand the energy matrix that led to this scene.

    What is the relative relationship between the citizens of Philly and the Police department?
    Of the hundreds of murders that happen in this city every year, who are the perpetrators and who are the victims?
     
  3. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    the explanation from the chief is that since an officer was killed by some robbers the police are going to beat up black guys until they (the police) feel better.
    it is their way of morning, i suppose.
     
  4. Each1teach1

    Each1teach1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    What is the relative relationship between the citizens of Philly and the Police department?
    Of the hundreds of murders that happen in this city every year, who are the perpetrators and who are the victims?[/QUOTE]


    I was born and raised in North Philly and I can tell you that for as far back as I can remember there has always been a rift between US and the police department, but thats in every city. This is all based on what we have witnessed in the video. Police are seen as the enemy regardless if they are the same color as us. The people in my old hood, never communicated with the police for lack of trust and therefore a fine line is drawn in the sand. Also you have this foolish new school idea of not telling commonly known as "NO SNITCHING" a campaign which has been encouraged and celebrated by rappers, music videos, dvds and even paraphernalia with the words "no snitching" smh.
    Sadly most victims are murdered or attacked by someone they know and often they dont want to tell for fear of reprecussion and the "no snitching" code of the streets. Some real Bullish imo...What took the cake for me was a bar shooting this past summer inwhich i believe 4 people were murdered. One of the guys who was murdered died trying to protect his mother from being shot...everyone in the bar claims they never saw the shooter...As it turned out it was the mother's boyfriend who she obviously knew it was him. It wasnt like he had on a mask. What tripped me out was the fact that she watched a man kill her son, knew who the guy was and wasnt gonna tell?? It seems her son loved her much more than she did him the least she could have done was brought her son's killer to justice!! smh
     
  5. $$RICH$$

    $$RICH$$ Lyon King Admin. STAFF

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    From what i just saw i deeply feel it was police abuse against these men
    i thought i was watching pt.2 of king beating or a mob action darn!!
    did they have to do that, Philly like chicago when it come to this .
     
  6. truetothecause

    truetothecause Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Yah KNOW!!!
    and... rodney king was the first in the desensitization process. calling out "Open Season"..... effectively desensitizing us to BEHAVING differently and/or THINKING a particular way when such terroristic atrocities take place. Our ACTIONS towards protection are blocked due to limited and effective RE~sources to get the job done.

    And just like rodney king, sean bell, and those countless others whose names are too many to adequately name, their is a LOGICAL and therefore...JUSTIFIED ACTIONS.

    Yes, I've noticed the increase in homocides in Chicago and recognized the trend....."We did a warn dem" (Tanya Stephens)

    Brother Oldsoul put together an awesome depiction of just WHAT HAPPENED to US...how we got that way. KNOWING this affords one to develop an appropriate course of action or treatment to address the PROBLEM in his recent class. He also Actively addressed FEELINGS.....the appropriateness of them and the need to utilize them in a way which is helpful to self and others.
    Well..some of that may be my stuff cause i'm not sure I recall the presentation addresing what about the feelings...ummmm. anywho....M.E.
    :hearts2:
     
  7. phynxofkemet

    phynxofkemet Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    World Wide Militarized Police

    This abuse of political power is worldwide, except in countries like Sweden and Denmark where the police don't carry arms. When I studied criminology I was surprised to find that countries with a de-militarized police (they carry no weapons and they're presence isn't omnious and as visible) have a much lower crime rate, and less violence per captia than other nations, even those of comparable Gross National Product. It seems to me that the political leaders are aware of this, and deliberately militarize countries to create fear and terror amongst the citizens, making it much easier to control them at large.

    The citizens are further deluded by political campaigns that promise to crack down on crime and make our streets safer. The only thing the manage to do is divert tax payers money towards increasing the corrupt military presence on our streets. I believe this is part of the reason why Justice is impaired.
    From Thailand, to South Africa, the U.S, Columbia, the stories are all the same. The poor and the less influential are prey to the system and to the criminal element of the community.

    The strangeness of not snitching is possibly another form of coercion, that keeps citizens unable to attain justice. Between violence, unaffordable housing, food shortages, unemployment, there are too many areas in society that are imbalanced and drain our energy.

    What is the feeling / energy of the citizens in Philly surrounding this news?

    I agree with true to the cause, there have been many publicized similarities to desensitize people and set precendent of failed justice.
     
  8. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    4 cops fired for beating

    http://www.philly.com/dailynews/top_story/20080520_4_cops_fired_for_beating.html


    OFFICER VINCENT Strain, the son of a recently retired captain who had worked in Internal Affairs, zoomed from suspect to suspect, kicking each of the three men wanted in a triple shooting, according to police brass.
    Officer Patrick Gallagher, a two-year veteran, bashed one of the shooting suspects in the head with anunknown object, while Officer Patrick Whalen, just one month out of the Police Academy, pummeled two suspects, police said.

    And Officer Robert Donnelly, also fresh out of the academy, was said to be arguably the worst violator of department policy: With a gun in his hand, Donnelly allegedly yanked one suspect from the car and struck and repeatedly kicked him. Then he pressed his foot on a suspect's head and later shoved one man's neck into a squad car before placing him inside, said Police Commissioner Charles H. Ramsey.

    Yesterday, Ramsey fired these four officers - all from the 35th Police District - and disciplined four others, including demoting a sergeant, for their role in a May 5 police encounter filmed by a news helicopter and seen around the world.

    "All of us as law-enforcement professionals have to understand that, unlike criminals on the street, we have rules that we have to abide by," Ramsey said. "We have an obligation to do things the right way. We have a legal authority to use force to take people into custody, but only that force necessary to effect the arrest. If it gets beyond that, then we've got an issue, we've got a problem and we have to take some action."

    In this case, the new commissioner's action - met with both praise and protest - was relatively swift, particularly from a Police Department with a history of drawn-out internal investigations into alleged police misconduct.

    Ramsey punished the eight officers just two weeks after the dramatic footage first aired locally on Fox 29 News. Internal Affairs investigators identified 19 officers - including one SEPTA cop seen with a K-9 dog - who arrived on the scene of the car-stop on 2nd Street near Erie Avenue in North Philadelphia.

    The video shows officers rushing a gold Mercury Grand Marquis and pulling out the three suspects: Brian Hall, 23; Dwayne "Lionel" Dyches, 24; and Pete Hopkins, 19. The officers then kick, punch and stomp on the three men, whom police say fled a shooting at 4th and Annsbury streets.

    Of the 19 officers identified on the video, Ramsey said that seven used excessive force, while a police sergeant failed to intervene.

    Ramsey demoted Sgt. Joseph Schiavone, a 15-year veteran from the 35th District, Broad Street and Champlost Avenue, to the rank of officer. Three other officers were suspended ranging from five to 15 days: Sean Bascom, Narcotics Strike Force; Demetrios Pittaoulis, 35th District; and Jonathon Czapor, 25th District, Whitaker Street near Erie Avenue.

    In an unprecedented public flogging of sorts, Ramsey named each officer and detailed their involvement in the beating during an afternoon news conference at Police Headquarters. A stern-faced Mayor Nutter joined him at the podium.

    "Today's announcement represents, I believe, what is required in this matter - swift, direct action," Nutter said. "I think this represents a new day in the Philadelphia Police Department and how we deal with these kinds of situations."

    Ramsey said he was worried about the morale of his officers and stressed that the discipline against the eight officers was "not a reflection" on the rank and file. "We've got people who get out there every single day and they do an absolutely tremendous job," Ramsey said.

    The move was widely praised - and widely criticized.

    "It's an unprecedented, gutsy move by Ramsey, and clearly it had to be approved by the Nutter administration, so they deserve a lot of the credit, too," said J. Whyatt Mondesire, president of the Philadelphia branch of the NAACP.

    Mondesire marveled at the speed of Ramsey's decision. He pointed out that in similar situations, past police commissioners generally postponed Internal Affairs investigations until after the District Attorney's Office completed its probe and determined whether to prosecute the officers.

    The officers could still face criminal charges. City prosecutors are investigating; federal authorities say they're monitoring the district attorney's probe.

    "We will do a fair and thorough investigation," Cathie Abookire, spokeswoman for District Attorney Lynne Abraham, said yesterday. There is no time frame for completion, she added.

    Ramsey said the city also has hired an outside agency, the Police Executive Research Forum in Washington, D.C., to evaluate the department's use of force policy and officer training under a four-month, $77,000 contract.

    John J. McNesby, president of Lodge 5 of the Fraternal Order of Police, accused Ramsey of rushing to judgment.

    "Every common criminal has the right to due process under the law," McNesby said. "Here, the officers didn't get due process. They weren't interviewed. It was more or less, they were guilty until proven innocent."

    McNesby said that the FOP will appeal Ramsey's decision on behalf of the eight officers. He lamented that city leaders are "sending mixed signals" to officers.

    "They want a war on crime, but they don't want any casualties," McNesby said. "These guys" - the three suspects - "just shot up a street corner for God sakes - it's not like they were coming back from choir practice. We'll back these officers 150 percent."

    McNesby said that in his 20 years on the force, he knew of no other case in which officers were fired in this manner. "I don't believe anybody from the Thomas Jones incident was fired - the officers were disciplined, but not one hour of that discipline against them stood up," McNesby said, referring to a 2000 incident in which 13 officers were taped beating Jones, a convicted carjacker. Last week, Rev. Al Sharpton weighed in on the May 5 incident. He called the beating "worse than Rodney King" and inflamed existing racial tensions in Philadelphia by pointing out that most of the officers involved were white.

    But on a radio program with Mayor Nutter yesterday, Sharpton extolled city officials, saying the action was "unprecedented," according to an article posted on Philly.com.

    "For you to take this action now shows some real muscle and seriousness about addressing police brutality," Sharpton said.

    Yet even Sharpton's own people disagreed.

    Sultan Ashley Shah, the Philadelphia head of Sharpton's National Action Network, said that Ramsey didn't go far enough. He asserted that at least 15 officers took part in the beating and demanded that Ramsey fire each and every one.

    "Just look at the video tape!" Ashley Shah shouted. "The world saw it. The world counted. Fifteen, minimum, individuals in that videotape are kicking these individuals."

    Ashley Shah led a small - but boisterous - band of 15 protestors, who chanted "Thugs in uniform - that's what they are" while standing outside police headquarters yesterday.

    Tensions boiled over yesterday morning during a bail-reduction hearing for Dyches before Common Pleas Court Judge Frank Palumbo. Led by Ashley Shah, family and supporters of Dyches filled four rows of courtroom benches.

    Dyches' attorney, Robert Gamburg, argued that his client's bail should be reduced from $1.5 million to $50,000, citing his ties to the community. Gamburg called the high bail "outrageous" and said Dyches is not accused by police of being the getaway driver or the shooter.

    "Until the city can get their story straight, it's fundamentally unfair," Gamburg said. Gamburg was referring to conflicting accounts of the shooting. Initially, Ramsey said that undercover narcotics officers saw four men get out of a gold Marquis. One of the four fired into a crowd of people at 4th and Annsbury streets and then ran off. But last week, Ramsey identified Hopkins, a passenger in the car, as the shooter. Reporters again pressed Ramsey yesterday for clarification.

    "The officer that had the eyeball on the surveillance at the time continues to state and is firm that he saw four individuals get out of the car," Ramsey said. "There is a civilian witness that said he only saw three. That is the issue."

    At the hearing before Judge Palumbo, Assistant District Attorney Carol Meehan Sweeney argued that bail should remain at $1.5 million for Dyches. She pointed out that he's charged as an accessory and conspirator in a triple shooting in which three men were injured.

    "The Commonwealth's theory has not changed on this case," Sweeney said. Sweeney's assertion prompted those in the crowd to yell, "Yes, it has! Yes, it has!"

    Sweeney then cited Dyches' criminal record. She said he had eight arrests, including juvenile arrests, and in three separate cases, he failed to appear in court. She added that Dyches has no full-time job and no children, which also makes him a flight risk. Those in the crowd called her a liar, yelling that he has a job and three kids. When a sheriff's officer with an accent asked the crowd to settle down, Paula Peebles, of Sharpton's National Action Network said, "Can you please speak English so I can understand what you're saying?"

    A quiet chill came over the courtroom. The judge said that Dyches has a detainer on him for a previous offense and until that detainer is lifted, it's premature to consider lowering his bail. The crowd stormed out of the courtroom. At least six sheriff's officers ushered the rowdy crowd into elevators and police officers looked on tensely.

    Out on the street, the crowd of Dyches supporters shouted down Sweeney as she left the justice complex.

    "Sweeney, liar! Sweeney, liar!" they chanted. Sweeney hurried across Filbert Street without glancing at them.

    D. Scott Perrine, the attorney for alleged shooter Pete Hopkins, blasted Ramsey yesterday, saying his actions "fall woefully short of an appropriate response." Perrine, who was not at the hearing, said later that the officers involved belong in a jail cell and Ramsey has probable cause to arrest them. *
     
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