Group Think : Overcoming Self-Hate Part II

Thank You Bro Clyde

Allow me to reply......Being a Poop Disturber...


Sister phynxofkmt,

Having learn of your time restraints, thank you reviving, hopefully, your thread and putting us back on track. You and Brother Mad Skillz both have shared substantive materials. This provides a strong indication that some of us are still interested in finding solutions, and that is my only purpose for participating in this thread. It is not my intent nor will I allow myself to go back and forth in some contest of sorts. As you well know, this Part II, if you will, is a spin-off break away from the Original that Astrologer4U and myself continue to pursue.

For whatever reasons, certain others have entered this open forum, and wish to simply overlook our main intent at finding a plan or probing for solutions to this eminent threat of Self-Hate that perpetually hangs over our People.

The attempt at creating a Forum on the topic of Self Hate, again, as you agreed would be a good idea, has been made mockery of to the extent that it no longer interests me. However, it has been offered to move this thread into the Origin of Racism Forum, since at this time, other Forums will not be created. So, let me give some brief history about the creation of that Forum, unless you are already familiar.

The Origin of Racism Forum was created by Destee to enable our Group Think project easy access and organization of related sources that would self generate. This concept of Destee’s is ingenious, and grew out of my foresight and deep desire to problem solve("if you don't have a solution, you are part of the problem") the thread of A007: What is the Origin of Racism. In similar fashion grew this source or material from Tariq Muhammad’s, The Origin and Ending of Self Hate thread.

So, here is are questions for you, phynxofkmt; do you see a nexus on the issues? And if so, do you wish this thread, Overcoming Self Hate Part II, be placed in the Origin of Racism Forum?


Simple yes, I would like to see the thread be place in the Origin of Racism Forum. Gratitude to you Bro Clyde

Brother MadSkillz I so thoroughly enjoyed reading your post; because it summarized a very lengthy and intricate part of the puzzle. And I believe that one of the challenges we have faced is seeing the big picture, but the way in which you presented the material made it tangible for everyone to grasp. I appreciate your input about how people really feel, because I've often wondered as much - once again great write.


 
In the Spirit of Sankofa!

Simple yes, I would like to see the thread be place in the Origin of Racism Forum. Gratitude to you Bro Clyde

Brother MadSkillz I so thoroughly enjoyed reading your post; because it summarized a very lengthy and intricate part of the puzzle. And I believe that one of the challenges we have faced is seeing the big picture, but the way in which you presented the material made it tangible for everyone to grasp. I appreciate your input about how people really feel, because I've often wondered as much - once again great write.






phynxofkmt,

Sister, I think you have made a wonderful decision, and thank you. Self Hate is an underpinning connected to racism. I will pass on to PurpleMoons, Administrator, your decision to annex this thread into the Origin of Racism Forum......Peace!

 
First and foremost, I am used to the accusation that I sit on a Council of Black Correctness - so I do not take offense. If we consider for a moment, that by your own admission, we as a nation have issues to attend to, then a "council", or counsellors seem to be part of the mandate for improvement. Whether I've been self-appointed or divinely inspired is a matter of debate that I can take on outside of this thread.

I agree that a "council" might be part of the mandate for improvement, but insomuch as personal choices are concerned, no "council" can impede upon the choices an individual makes that the individual themselves are happy with. The only "improvement" we need to address are issues that are destructive to the collective in a tangible way.

Let us take each of your points one at a time:

Good plan. I might have to break up my response, handling a portion at a time, but we will see how it works out.

An example of the wrong faith for a brother or sister, in my humble opinion is belonging to any church that promotes the belief that your blackness is a curse from God, and that blacks are intended to serve the white man because the good book says so. I believe we can recognize the church of Mormon here, and yes I know brothers and sisters that belong to it, and support this doctrine of Self-Hate.

I also personally believe that any church using Caucasian idols for worship, has a long history of covert child molestation, misogyny, and financial involvement in the Maafa, this is not the right faith for a brother or a sister.
Am I My Brother's Keeper??? YES I AM!

You have mentioned cults such as the Mormans and the Catholics. A cult is not right for anyone. Their faith and practices are contradictions to Bible Christianity. Having any image or "idol for worship" is unbiblical. So all of the issues you pointed out as being "not the right faith for a brother or a sister.", are simply perversions of biblical Christianity and not acceptable to God, therefore not appropriate for anyone.

By the same token, based on freedom of choice, it is none of your or my business if a brother or sister CHOOSES to pursue these perverted versions of Christianity. It is essentially the same as if a brother or sister viewed or participated in pornography. It is wrong, but really not my business. It doesn't effect the collective. Stopping them from doing so is not going to bring about the collective "Improvement" that the "council" seeks.

What tangible benefit can be gained on behalf of the collective by claiming their choice to pursue a perverted religion as "self-hate"?

You are too educated brother Excel not to recognize the role of religion in the quest for global domination. To this day missionaries are funded millions of dollars to continue the quest to civilize the pagan, to correct the heathen African and to convert those that need to be saved from themselves.
There have been so many discussions here at Destee detailing the effect of Christianity upon the minds of African people that I will allow those posts to stand in their own power rather than reiterate what was already revealed.
The quest for global domination is a political one. The quest to spread the gospel is a spiritual one. They are not mutually the same. In fact, they are almost polar opposites. The quest for global domination and The Great Commission are in no way connected.

Any cult or Christian perversion will definately have a negative effect upon the mind of Any people who follow it. On the other hand, I have not seen any negative effect of following and obeying true biblical principles.

More importantly, I will give you and opportunity to do what no one else have done when I have asked specific questions. Please connect the dots between the ambiguous "problem" of pursuing a religion you deem "not right" for the black man or woman, and any TANGIBLE problem that is harmful to the collective. Please be specific. I want to drill down to the specific tangible problem.

Christianity doesn't teach white supremacy. Most true White supremacist abhore Christianity, the ones that don't abhore it, twist and pervert it to the point that it would be unrecognizable by Christ. In fact, most characters in the Bible would be considered non-White and several are definatively black.

There are 10's of thousands of people held in slavery right now in Sudan and Darfur, there is violence on the scale that occurs nowhere else in the entire world, do you not think these people need to be saved???

I clearly understand that there is a real quest for global domination, but, I assure you those missionaries who are sacrificing the comforts of the U.S. to take their families to live in sub-standard conditions and whose lives are almost constantly at risk are not a part of that quest.


APPEARANCE
Black people's fixation with their hair dates back to the dawn of time, and this is exactly what the Dapper museum in Paris sets out to show in an exhibition entitled Parures de Tête (literally, head costumes) that opened this week and runs to July 11, 2004.

African-Americans spend an estimated 325 million dollars (euros) on hair care per year; in Brazil the black hair care market is valued at over two billion dollars; in Britain, 70 percent of beauty expenditure in the "ethnic" category, or some 50 million dollars, is on hair care; South African women spend approximately 130 million dollars annually on their hair.
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-17492.html
As we can see, beauty is a part of our cultural legacy, and Africans spend a lot of money to appear beautiful. The question or concern we can issue today is both psychological and economical; if Black men and women spend millions of dollars on hair care, are we financing the promotion of Black beauty of colonialist imagery? The millions of dollars being spent, does it go to companies that manufacture flat irons, chemical straighteners, hair and skin bleach, or to experts in the art of plaiting, braided, curling, texturizing, etc... ahhh.... and ultimately where we put our money speaks volumes about what we care about. We still care about being accepted by white societies. We care about fitting in.... and this has a drastic effect on our children. Psycholinguistics is a field of study involving imagery and language, this science is used everyday to influence the PERSONAL CHOICES we each make, because anyone who wants to control the world, knows they must control the INDIVIDUAL CHOICES that form the COLLECTIVE. Simple n'est pas? The recent American election is a prime example of this science applied to the masses. Millions of dollars spent to ensure that each INDIVIDUAL CHOICE would amount up to the ELECTION OF THE RIGHT CANDIDATE! Below we see the "mentality" of our children exposed to psycholinguistic marketing and messages of America:

Again, I think this is just CHOICES. But, lets look at tangible problems created by this. If a black woman chooses to straighten their hair, what tangible problem does this create for that woman or for the collective? A woman may go from textured to straight, from long to short all as a matter of experiencing with different fashions, it doesn't constitute "self-hate".

Insomuch as fitting in is concerned, I am the only black person in my region within my company. If I had my hair "Fried, dyed, and laid to the side" It would never make me "fit in" better. If I wore blue contact lenses or bleached my skin, It would not make me "fit in" any better. It would only make me appear wierd (like Micheal Jackson). I don't think fashion choices of individuals are done in an effort to "fit in" with whites. They may like white features better than their own, (which was apparently the case with Micheal Jackson), but I am certain he had no dillusion it would make him "fit in" to white society better. Liking the features of one person more than your own doesn't make one a "self-hater".

But again, lets talk about the Tangible problems created by this "drastic effect on our children". Ambiguous problems such as "it make them want to emulate white people" is just a choice, everyone emulates someone. When Run DMC did "Walk This Way" it was a choice, not an demonstration of self-hatred. I realize this is not the best example, but my point is, lets drill down to what you would consider the tangible problem that creates a problem for black people. When white guys enjoy rap music or R&B is this self-hatred?

RELATIONSHIPS

The following insights are offered on the subject of inter-racial relationships by Dr. Jeffrey Gardere:
"...for anyone who falls in love with a compatible person with whom [they] can create a satisfying, long-term relationship, race should never exclude that person simply because he or she is of a different race. (p.202)

"Once we limit ourselves to partners of the same sex or other races, we tend to remove ourselves from the black community and restrict ourselves to the white world or the gay world. Many people who make this choice are surprised and dismayed by their sense of isolation from black friends and family..." (p.204)

"... love knows no color, but many black people who refuse to date within the race suffer seriously from our PTSD [post-traumatic slavery disorder] because they've fallen prey to distorted and poisonous images about their own beauty. Out PTSD-related anger also plays a role in a black man's choice to be with a white woman, perhaps out of the need to get payback for slavery and racism. Some black men also believe white women are more compliant than demanding, intolerant and angry black women. On the other hand, some black women view white men as knights in shining armor who will save them from dead-end relationships with good-for-nothing, cheating, heartless, powerless-yet-posturing black men. (p.200)
The messages that Black men and women receive about one another on a day to day basis, is primarily negative rather than positive. And the truth of the matter is that we are not healed collectively, therefore our relationships with one another mirror quite accurately the wounds we carry from generations of internalizing the hate of colonialism. We cannot escape that Brother Excel, nor should we try to. What we must do is stop viewing the opposite sex as the enemy
The message that a Black man or woman recieves on a day to day basis is primarily that of their EXPERIENCES with the individual mates they choose. I don't think any black man or woman who "refuse to date within the race" adopted that attitude based on societal pressures or influences. It is usually based on negative EXPERIENCES they have had. So if it is negative rather than positive messages they are getting, it is not because of something they seen on TV or learned at school, it is because they were burned or hurt by the opposite sex. Even as a black man married to a white woman, I do not like it when I run into the occassional brother who "refuse to date within the race", but he is free to date whomever he wants, it has no effect on me...it has no effect on the collective.

If individuals who date outside their race choose to do so for what ever reason they may have, right, wrong, or indifferent, it is their free choice to do so. It has no tangible effect upon the collective.

I have no negative views against black women and I certainly don't consider them the enemy. I love all women, but I am IN LOVE with only one. This is not the business of the collective, the council or anyone else. It has no effect on the collective and certainly isn't "self-hate". So, why do I need to be treated for symptoms of self-hate or need some group of blacks get together to decide what must be done to prevent me from exercising free choice? What is the tangible problem I have created other than offend the opinion of those who.......oh, wait, that's not tangible.

It seems to me that if we are to solve the marital problems in the community, we will first have to decide to use our PERSONAL CHOICE in SELECTING A MATE, and while we can choose to fall in love with a white person, and create a stable family, we can also choose to fall in love with another person of color and create a stable family. Thereby we help to change that statistic and we lead by example.
That is your OPINION. Our 70% OOW child birth problem is not associated with the few of us who CHOOSE to marry outside the race. It is directly related to violating the Christian principle of avoiding sexual relationships outside of marriage. It is directly related to irresponsible men and women (especially men).

So, if I choose not to agree with your opinion, it doesn't constitute "self-hate" or an "overwhelming problem" requiring all hands on deck" to "resolve". While you may think it is a good idea to "choose to fall in love with another person of color", life doesn't always work that way.

If a person doesn't want to get married, that's their call. If they choose to create children OOW then not fulfill their responsibility to that child, they have then created a problem that society must pay for in some way. It is then a problem for the collective.


Once we have exercise the power of choice, we can then apply our knowledge and experience to assisting other couples in our communities overcome relationship dysfuntions. As it stands currently, African American women are statistically more loyal to the race than their brothers, especially the brothers who achieve economic wealth and status. And yet we ponder why the Black community feels impoverished? SMH. Can someone say abandonment?
"A term has arisen to describe the social phenomenon of the so-called "marriage squeeze" for African American females[23]. The "marriage squeeze" refers to the fact that the most "eligible" and "desirable" African American men are marrying non-African American women at a higher rate, leaving African American women who wish to marry African American men with fewer partnering options. According to Newsweek, 43% of African American women between the ages of 30 and 34 have never been married.[24] Several explanations of this phenomenon have been advanced by sociologists. It may be in part due to the still lingering effects of social ostracism, to which Caucasian American men who married African American women were heavily subjected in the past. It may also be the result of a desire among African American women to marry African American men due to concepts such as racial loyalty.[citation needed] There also appears a lingering perception that negative social stereotypes cause black women to be viewed as sexual objects by non-African American men.[citation needed] Lastly, there is a desire among educated women of all races to marry partners within or above their social and economic class; when African American women restrict their marriage prospects to African American men, African American women risk either marrying below their socioeconomic class or not marrying at all as African American women consistently achieve better completion rates in higher education than African American men do.[25]. Also, rates of incarceration for marriage-age African American males are far higher than rates for females, further contributing to the male/female gap. As of 2002, 10.4% of all African American males between the ages of 25 and 29 were sentenced and in prison.[26] The African-American male-female disparity is highest between the ages of 25 – 29, when for every two African-American men, there are nearly three African-American women. [27]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage
Based on 2006 Census figures 286,000 black men were married to white women and 117,000 black women were married to white men. That is a 169,000 "trade deficit". So, the exercise of freedom of choice has effected marriage in the black community by 169,000 couples out of 4 million. This is a mere 4.2% of all black people who are married.

Although I didn't marry inside the race, I consider it a good idea to do so. But, we are talking about overcoming "self-hate". Although exercising freedom of choice does create a 4.2% trade deficit, it does not justify applying the lable of "self-hate" to the one who chooses to marry outside the race.

So, overcome the lack of marriage in our community, but lets not criticize those who are married as "self-haters" because they have choosen to marry outside the race.


On a last minute note, I recently was directed to a GayThug website, which I have to say blew my mind. And although I do try to be open minded, this DL behavior disgusts me and I'd love to out and shame any brother involved in deceiving his "baby mama", or girlfriend, wife, etc... into thinking he's straight. On perusal of the site, I discovered many of the profiled men actually have children, and women in their lives. My question was of course, do their girlfriends and baby mama's know about this game on the side? Scandalous, simply scandalous, and if I discovered my man was a switch hitter, you can be dang sure he's not coming back home to my stable household! Yep, I'm a sexual orientation bigot.... oh well.

COLOR]

I am as well. In this case, I can point to tangible problems that effect the collective. HIV/AIDS is rampant in the black community. Last year, 69% of all women contracting HIV/AIDS were black. Now there might be some self-hate you can overcome.

The rest of your post will be addressed in a different response....I am working on it as time permits.
 
I don't get

frustrated easily, but as my time is more precious to me than ever before, I do have to make a PERSONAL CHOICE as to where I allocate it, and therefore this will be my last response to address the challenge of what constitutes personal choice and what is a symptom of hate / rejection / hurt.

FACT - The Christian churches worldwide are derivatives the Roman Catholic church,

FACT - Regardless of which bible used, the story & message is the same, a great deal of plagiarism from the Mystery schools.

FACT - religion is a business, parishioners donate time & money to keep their churches afloat. If you lose your job tomorrow will the church cover your bills until you're re-employed?

FACT - Christianity was the religion used by Caucasians to justify the genocide of First Nations people, to abduct their children and put them in residential schools where they were taught that their own customs and beliefs made them inferior heathens. It was the same religion used to brainwash Africans into believing that heaven is in the sky and that slavery was ordained by God.

FACT - the slavery in Dafur is because of RACE, ECONOMICS AND POLITICS - JESUS CHRIST IS NOT GOING TO SAVE THEM -

FACT - what you call fashion emulation is actually a form of jealousy or envy which destroy the soul When you consider that the kingdom of God is within you - as a Christian you recognize that you are made in the image of your God (GIFT OF DIVINITY); then distorting your temple is a reflection of your unique fingerprint, spiritual rejection within your self for that outside of you.

In none of your arguments do you cite references for support, not once have you used a Black author, an African leader or an African movement to support your position - do you have any literature or reference to help support your opinions?

If the activities of your brothers & sisters are none of your business, then that ought to include their personal decision to kill one another?
unless you're on an evangelist quest for converts?????

Religion and politics go hand in hand, they are even referred to in the Bible as the towers of Boaz and Jachin. The so called separation of church and state has never actually taken place. I don't know if you study history but in order to make a point here you need to do better research in this area.

You've misinterpreted the statistic of HIV in the community, which many people do and which the media knows most people will do. The exact premise is that 69% of new cases were reported by women of African American descent - not that 60% of all cases are African American women. Consider for a moment if you will the rest of the HIV studies that show a high rate of false positives for testing.

If you want to discuss HIV and other Sexually Transmitted Diseases I welcome that because it deserves it's own thread, which I believe was started previously and we can look for it and meet there. Dispelling myth and evaluating the role that being diagnosed with HIV means in terms of economics and again political control is very necessary to win this battle.

What I am willing to discuss on that subject is, HIV what is this disease, what are the symptoms, what are the treatments, and why are some people deliberately trying to spread it into their communities?
(see Trashman on YouTube)

If you feel that the contents of this thread are not valid it is your PERSONAL CHOICE TO IGNORE THE THREAD, but at no time have you proven that what was presented is wrong. What you have said though is that the behavior you are concerned with is not condoned in the bible....

I will not continue a discussion with you or anyone else who uses the Bible as their sole reference for morality, I'm not anti-Bible, I actually own an African Heritage Study Bible. I just believe it's really not productive nor the path I wish to walk at this time.

p.s Have you ever read the ISIS Papers?
 
hehehe.... he hasn't read anything accept for the false statistics about blacks that he continuosly spouts.



Any way Phynx, great! Post


I really love and adore this part, points to his bias, and obvious contradiction to the way he feels...

[If the activities of your brothers & sisters are none of your business, then that ought to include their personal decision to kill one another?
unless you're on an evangelist quest for converts?????


If you review his history here, you will see that he only post in threads where he sees an oppurtunity to spout his opinions about race and self destructive behavior amongst blacks and his dissapointment about what he percieves people feel, concerning his choice of wife. He never sites any sources and the one source he did site at one time was proven to be counterfeit. When he was asked to take down the source because it being counterfeit, he refused to do so. I guess his insincere ego, would not allow him to. The whole thing about it, he hiself, agreed that the source was counterfeit, yet he refused to take it down.

You are right, if you want to see to it that your time is spent productively, you don't want to continue with this guy.


Sister


Astrologer4U
 

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