Black Spirituality Religion : OUR LEGACY OF SPIRITUAL JUSTICE

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Metaverse, Apr 13, 2008.

  1. Metaverse

    Metaverse Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The Dark Arts of African Witchcraft.

    The Gravity of the Crime

    When a spiritual person is wronged spiritually, He or She does not go to physical court and stand in front of a Judge. He or She shouldn't have to. Because a physical court or Judge has no way of applying justice for them on a spiritual level.

    We often agree in unison that we are "spiritual people" and if this is true then all crimes against us are indeed spiritual. Not spiritual in the sense that perpetrator of the crime acts from a spiritual place, but because we as a people are so evolved and defined by our spiritual intelligence- any act against us collectively could be seen as an attack on our spiritual progress. Let's examine that further.

    Of all the great crimes against us, nothing stands out more erect than the Transatlantic Slave Trade - the very crime that begot our current voice. Could we say that this crime was an attack on our spiritual progress? Yes it was. It it were not, so many of us would not be trying so hard to recover our lost history, knowledge and spirituality.

    So while it is true that this crime was performed in the physical world, it was still an act against spiritual people- making it a spiritual crime. It is true even in law, that the weight of a crime changes depending on who or what the crime is inflicted upon. For example, a Man raping a Goat - a Man raping a Woman- and a Man raping a baby- it's still rape- but for each crime there is different gravity. Keep in mind that during slavery, the rape of a slave was treated with less concern than bestiality.

    A Justice Denied

    Now, an African Spiritual person with their cultural knowledge and spiritual traditions intact - would still go to a physical court for individual concerns. Such a court is constructed of Elders and neighbors. And the best verdict is the fairest verdict for all parties involved.

    But let's be honest. Africans have always had spiritual Judges, their Ancestors, their spirits and their Gods. To which no man, unless he was a fool, would dare oppose. That has been our legacy of spiritual justice.

    So now, when we call ourselves "spiritual people" even this definition has become somewhat "westernized" because too many of us equate this title with religion and even spiritual ideas- and in a few cases they are interchangeable concepts, but truthfully African "spiritual" people are those who commune with the spiritual world.

    We are not just talking about the awareness of our own spirit, or the need to develop our own spirituality, but also the tangible real world interaction with spirits and supernatural forces.

    [​IMG]

    Ironically, most religions deal with an Avatar that is a "African Spiritual Person" in his truest form. The character Jesus communed with spirits, interacted with spirits and supernatural forces. There is a great piece of humor in this, and a sad reality that we pray to ourselves in another form.

    In fact, Jes-us is US. His myth and legend is the totality of African Spirituality and Power. We are the Messianic Race. Even in this case, "Jesus" would not ask a physical court for Justice either, who would he ask? His Father who is in heaven, I.E.- our Ancestors, our Fathers and Mother who are in the spirit world. That is also our legacy of spiritual justice.

    No one can preach about justice to the Islamic world. Because Islam came about to deal with the injustices inflicted upon 3rd world nations by the Judeo-Christian era. But it's what our religious families do for justice that is a true signature of what they believe of their religion.

    Because African people are so spiritually evolved, if we lack the knowledge and understanding of our own "spirit reality" we had a terrible habit of absorbing the religious beliefs of other cultures even more so than our invaders themselves. We are more Muslim than the Arabs, more Christian than
    the Europeans. It's not just our sense of spiritual power, but our sense of application. Still, we must realize this ability comes from the spirituality of our Ancestors, not from Christianity and not from Islam but from thousands of years of communicating and interacting with the spirit world.

    The European's true religion is psychology. It was psychology that made us into slaves. And even today, it is the psychology of Europeans that we struggle and fight against. Against their misdirection, brainwashing and deception. To which we flip through our Bibles and Qurans trying to find remedies for. We speak about prophecies, prophets, the Devil and Satan- hoping for a solution to our obviously physical problems that stream from a mental place but planted in spiritual soil.

    The Dark Artists of Africa's past had many ways of dealing with physical problems, because they all knew and understand that the physical world is only the result of what is planted in the spiritual, just as a plant or tree is the result of a seed nurtured. We are still here even today not realizing this simple truth. We can chop down the weeds, but they continue to grow- if we do not deal with the spiritual reality of our problems, those problems will continue to grow out and manifest. As African Sages have said that the Biblical scholars have reinterpreted - it is what comes out of us that defiles us.

    Spiritual Justice is not offered by any physical courts. Our true reparations will be produced when we recover our mastery over the force. The force that animates all of reality, the force that composes all the components of life, from the micro to the macro. The same force that George Lucas used for his series, another African concept redefined for Euro-idealism. Luke use the force! Or- Luke use Vodou- which is also "force."

    [​IMG]

    A Black Christian Pastor was once inspired by this concept of Dark Vader and "the dark side of the force" and ironically his instincts led him to the truth of the character, that he was in fact a Black Man, and represented Africa at the height of it's spiritual power- and the "Father" of the White Race "Luke Skywalker" - but he also mentions that such a force was only meant to be used by Jesus Christ, and the dark side of the force is the satanic powers of fallen Angels who refuse the word of God.

    It's no doubt that many have used spiritual power for their own selfish needs and greeds. Still, even today in Africa and the world those who fear the Dark Artists, fear them because of justice denied. What we might call "satanic powers" are in most cases spiritual powers that result from interactivity with the spiritual world. And our Ancestors and Spirits want nothing more than balance and justice for our souls.

    Does this mean we subscribe to African Spirituality for justice? No, it means we understand the logic we are dealing with fully. It means no matter what religion we perform, we should understand the true nature of that religion, and how it is used to define our interaction with the spirit world.

    Doesn't it make sense that African people would be programmed not to use their "force" to defend themselves against their invaders? Doesn't it make sense that we would be given a religion that tells us directly not to use the spiritual applications for supernatural effectiveness?

    And with all our prayers and offerings, are we in any different place from our Ancestors? We are only different slaves, but still slaves. We are in a country with a legacy of slavery petitioning for our spiritual justice.
     
  2. Knowledge Seed

    Knowledge Seed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    How do we regain our spiritual power?
     
  3. phynxofkemet

    phynxofkemet Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I agree

    with your post Metascience and I have long said the the nubian is the Messianic race. What I would like to know as I discussed in my entry about the dying deer, is how do we reclaim the knowledge? If it lays within us, then the better question is how to activate our Dynamic Natural Abilities? Right? I eat a good diet, not too much sugar, mostly vegetarian with the odd meat dish in moderation (maybe once a month). I don't smoke, am drug free and I'm pretty healthy. So how do I tap into my power(s) aside from letting them awaken randomly?
     
  4. Metaverse

    Metaverse Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    ASK: Aquire Spiritual Knowledge

    Knowledge Seed and Sis. Phynxofkmt, this is a very critical question that can no longer be handled with "kid gloves."

    To be very clear, in order to "regain" such a power we have to ask for it and stick to the regiment and practice we are offered. Ask the way you are trained to ask, either through prayer, meditation or even through simple speaking. I've found that even speaking outloud to ourselves can create the results we desire.

    But keep in mind when we ask for something to change, don't become upset when things do change. You see, many of us ask, but we are unable to stick to the regiment required for our power to center itself back into our being.

    Also know that the power has always been with us, so in this sense what we are trying to "regain" is our full awareness of how our power works. Because of my topics on spirituality from time to time I would get a rebuttal from a religious person, who I now refer to as my religious family members- because we are all indeed family regardless of our beliefs. She said to me, "My Daughter was so sick one night and I didn't have the money to take her to the Doctor so I fell on my knees and prayed to Jesus, please help my Daughter, please, help her, she is sick, please make her well! She offered me an explanation for her faith, her Daughter did become well by morning. Jesus she said to me was the reason for her Daughter's recovery.

    And then I asked her this question. "What image was in your mind when you prayed?" She thought about it for awhile, already figuring out the science of what I was saying. She said "I was thinking about how my Daughter looked like when she was well running around the house playing."

    It is unfair to use metaphysics to sweep our belief systems under the rug, I only try to help myself see and others see how our beliefs are working. Now learning from what this Sistah told me, I tried it myself- instead I didn't use any names like Jesus, Allah or any names of any Avatars, and it still worked.

    You see when we pray hard enough, really hard, we are pushing out and igniting the energy field around us- imprinting our thoughts and images on the fabric of reality. There are many many ways of doing this, but the effect is the same. It depends on our level of "concentration" this is how we direct our intention.

    Black people curse each other all the time. We need to bless each other more than we curse each other. We curse each other with our thoughts and images. With the words that flow from our tongue. So another way to "regain" this lost knowledge is through practice and application. Right now at this very moment any negative Black life can be turned around with the simple application of words. Words spoken in the right harmony can create "spiritual justice" as well.

    The power of African spirituality is also in our words, because words are only containers for our intention. What we have to learn about our words is how to speak to the inner God or Goddess, and that even if the conscious mind may not understand, the inner God or Goddess does. At times it is even appropriate to speak to the inner God or Goddess ABOUT the conscious/ego mind even when they are listening. Like saying to the Drug Dealer "You'll find a better place for him."

    The change in diet has helped. Meditation has helped. Prayer has helped. Fasting has helped. Knowing the right herbs and oils to use has helped. Psychic emotional training has helped. Imagery hypnotherapy has helped. But then I see my spiritual family, some of them who practice dark magic, Vodou and others- who eat differently and are still able to get the spiritual justice they need when they need it and I wonder- what is it then.

    For them it is a networking of power. As individuals they are struggling spiritually, but as a group they are lethal. We all have weaknesses and strengths individually- but when we come together- hummm.

    How can I set out today to right a spiritual injustice? First by realizing that we are that Deer on the side of the road, hit by an on coming car that has now fled the scene of a crime. And if we cannot weep for ourselves, who will weep for us? There is great power in the tears of our Women. I have always said if Black Women were allowed to cry collectively in one complete space- empires would crumble. And if Black Men cried along with them - the tectonic plates of the earth would vibrate and shift. Why do we reserve our tears for funerals, when there are funerals going on all around us?

    We conjure up spirits with our words and emotional signals, the spirits of Men and Women who have previous walked the earth, even moments ago. They walk around us as invisible shadows but they are drawn to us because we share the same energy signatures. Our Ancients knew and understood the spirit world. They understood how the biological vibrations of the body attracted beings in the etheric realms. We all have them around us. And to be unconscious of how they affect our reality is to be trapped even deeper inside a fabricated realm.

    They will whisper to us the injustices of the world and how to stop them if we listen. We are faced with our own personal injustices, but none of them are unique. So if we work to solve and deal with any spiritual injustice, the remedy and solution can be distributed across the Diaspora.

    No, it's not just about the return to practical magics, while many will disagree- the ability to harness and understand true African spiritual arts requires serious initiation, but what we are really speaking about is the use of energy we already possess. It's as simple as a Daughter kneeling down every night to speak with her Mother or GrandMother that has passed over. As simple as a Man looking up to the stars and speaking to the Cosmos directly and unapologetically. It's the Dancer that uses her body to draw out the energy for her redemption.

    The Rapper who speaks words so profound they are almost soaked in the blood of our Ancestors, and as those words are heard and recited their energy parades out to right the injustices of African people.

    The power of African spirituality is also in the Black Man who says, despite our differences- I will do my best to raise our child. I will right the injustice of my life. In fact, any Black child who needs me- if I can help- I will.
    It is the Black Single Mother who says, you know what- I will still raise this child to love and respect their Father. I will right the injustice of my own life.

    Today I set out to right the spiritual injustice of my own life. This is our legacy. And it does take concentration, and at times a tangible application that can help to strengthen our thoughts. But it is possible not impossible, we wouldn't still be here if it was impossible. We can regain a full awareness of our force, our spiritual judicial system simply by asking for it.
     
  5. Metaverse

    Metaverse Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The Dark Doctrine

    All levels of magic, white or black are evil. This is the general idea for all major religions. The great irony here is that all major religions are not only begotten by kingdoms riddled in witchcraft, but all major religions still perform some of the same rituals to govern over the minds of their flock.

    Its apparent that we are trained and programmed to believe in the evils of magic as to distract our minds from the fact that witchcraft is used by every established authority on the planet to seduce the spirit, and to keep us in line with the times. From School, Church, Government and place of business- they all aide one of the greatest conspiracies of all time.

    There is enough evidence to suggest that even King James was not only a practicing Witch, but a complete advocate for Witchcraft.
    That puts a whole different twist on the his version of the Bible doesn't it? It makes you wonder if perhaps the unnatural obsession some of us have with this book is part of his spell.

    Now how true can this be? That we can be victims of the very thing we protest against? The very things we are taught are evil? The very Doctrines we are programmed to believe are of the Devil and of Satan?

    There is no successful Black Pastor in America anywhere, that does not learn the art of seducing their flock through the hypnotic tones of his or her voice.
    This is a tool in witchcraft. Many of us will notice the tools used in some of America's most secret societies and the tools used in our Churches are the same, they are one in the same. The same organs and organ players used at Bohemian grove on Saturday can be used down the street at Bohemian Church of Christ the very next day. These tools are one in the same.

    We must see the truth of these things. The reason it's now 2008 and we are still dealing with the same issues with most of our religious families is because they are under a spell. And in most cases they have volunteered for rituals that has bonded them down to less sophisticated spirits.

    Are we so blind not to see that the same deep and harmonic voice of our Pastors, the call of his voice- the answer that comes from the organ- the clapping, the singing, the shouting- the falling down in the isles- not only come from our extensive history of spiritual communication and the Animistic spiritual orders of our Ancestors- but also they flow out from our very being, like undisturbed realities. They are still within us, and we within them.

    Yet foolishly, we are void of the awareness of the very power that governs over the totality of our being. Therefore this power is easily used against us.
    Like a Boy whose Father was a fisherman, whose Grandfather was a fisherman, whose Great great Grandfather was a fisherman and who comes from a family of fisherman, but he sit near the river banks- starving and hungry. Wondering to himself, what did I do to deserve this? His crime is the same as ours. We have forgotten who we are, who we come from and where we come from- and why we have existed from then up until now. It's because we have mastered a way to survive the Earth and the Cosmos, and to neglect those principles in pursuit of foreign Gods and foreign loves is in fact an act of War waged against our destiny.

    And to add insult to an already well establish injury- the very powers within us that we turn our backs on, are taught to our enemies in small numbers, but enough for them to control our minds, our behaviors and our progress. All levels of magic is evil we say? Then some of the most evil people on the planet are Priests, Pastors, Deacons, Doctors, Teachers, Singers, Rappers, Artists, the list goes on- and we are their victims.

    But why would anyone say such things without having some way of verifying the truth? The Dark Doctrine that controlled much of the "African Civilized" world is responsible for this time period we live in now of religious paradigms.
    It was a doctrine that said "out of darkness comes fire, out of darkness come earth, out of darkness comes water, out of darkness comes the winds."

    There is no life without darkness.
    So in truth, we are controlled not by what we see, but by what we don't see. We are controlled not by what people do in front of us and in the light but by what they do in the darkness. Be mindful about what we ourselves do in the darkness, away from observing eyes, and let us ask ourselves - is this my witchcraft? Is this my Dark Doctrine?

    What about our thoughts? Who hears them but us? Are these not also those things done in the dark? So you see, our Ancients were not foolish afterall for learning the powers of darkness and mastering them.

    If it is spiritual justice we truly seek, then we will have to become more aware of the nature of justice in the cosmos and in the spirit world. We should also be aware that word "hex" meaning six as in sign, or mark. There are many forms of hexing being used, there is religious hexing, medical hexing and even media hexing. Medical hexing for example is when a Doctor simply tells the Patient they have but so many weeks or months to live and that person dies even without any illness or disease to justify their death. The N-Word is another form of hexing. Currently White Media uses a form of repetitive hexing, if you tell a lie long enough, many times over and over- it become truth in the minds of the people. Religious hexing uses the same technique. The chorus in most religious songs or most songs actually are repeated at least 6 times.

    The idea of the "hex" suggest that nothing is sunk deep into the soul until it is repeated at least 6 times. By the 7th time, the truth is established. We are all victims of some form of hexing, or mark of the beast- even Time itself bares the mark.
     
  6. godsmantru

    godsmantru Banned MEMBER

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    YOU CANT OUTDO GOD!BIBLE=PROPHECY NOT HISTORY!
    IF YOU DENY THE TRUTHS THAT ARE IN THE BIBLE YOU DENY THE ANCIENTS! It doesnt matter what we as idividuals beleive all that matters is the TRUTH. AND THATS IT! Can you change the true color of the sun by lieing about it? Can you change the wetness of the rain by lieing about it? Can you change the fact that fire burns by lieing about it? Can you change the direction of the wind by lieing about it? Can you shift the earth off its axis by lieing about it? GOD IS WHO HE SAYS HE IS AND THAT IS IT. If any man find fault in me, then let him find fault in me trying to wake my brothers and sisters up, because the house is burning down. We have divided ourselves into the catagories of yours and ours. If you think for one second that your ancestory is going to save you: You are fooling yourself. If you think the color of your skin is going to deliver you, stop fooling yourself. Salvation was NEVER in a NAME! IT was always in the blood. The TRUTH of how things are NOW, that is what we are Judged by. God is not going to hold us to a standard of time and space in which we never lived. But remember one thing: the more things change, the more they stay the same. And if any group of people reject "WHOSOEVER WILL CAN COME, THEY ARE A COLD DEAD PEOPLE! SO.. I guess this is it. You want to shut this door? Its only a mouse click away. I feel a HOLY and RIGHTEOUS anger in my spirit. It is going to be done HIS way, not my way, your way, or anybody elses way.
    It Rests On Ancient Reasoning: DO MA'AT AND LIVE!
     
  7. Seneb

    Seneb Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    it's my biggest problem....how can i solve this?
     
  8. Blackbird

    Blackbird Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hey, you all can take this for what its worth to you, but I will share this because something is tugging at me to tell. This is my journey back.


    Disclaimer: Many times our people are so caught up in the rational left-brained or Westernized way of thinking, that we discount the experiential because it doesn't fit into our neat box of logic and physical laws. So if you are a free thinker, a free mind, I invite you to journey with me as I recall what was imprinted on my consciousness and integrated into my energetic makeup.

    The Preparation:

    In 2002, a month before I was "scratched", I embarked on a bodily cleansing and purification regimen. For 7 days, I ate only steamed and raw green vegetables. I wore only green whenever I could. The next 7 days I took herbs to purge myself internally. I wore only red clothing whenever possible. The next 3 days I fasted on with juices and water. The last 11 days I gradually integrated raw greens and calcium into my diet. I took 7 days worth of "cooling" baths at the beginning and at the ending of my regimen. During my rayado, I continued my diet. About 21 days after rayado and after each day going before my ancestors, I sat at one of my "spirit pots" I made for my unknown ancestors and constantly asked them for strength and guidance as I held two malachite crystals. I like malachite because of its cooling qualities and energy strengthening properties. Well about 10 days after rayado, I noticed an opening in my brow chakra, evidenced by pressure felt at that point. At night, I would experience the buzzing, pressure and mentally see the intense bright lights of indigo, purple and orange of an astral experience shining behind my closed eyelids. So these things were occuring for me after my initiation.

    The Journey:

    After spending what seem like an eternity at my shrine, but in actuality was only a few minutes, I decided to go to sleep. Laying down at bed, I felt the onset of an astral experience coming. I saw the lights first, bright and intense, almost if a car was about to ram into my room. It started out as one single white light that constantly moved in the darkness of my "mind's eye". As time went on, the color changed to an indigo and I felt a tenseness in my forehead. I watch the light continue to float around, changing from indigo to purple and growing larger. Next, I heard buzzing going off into my head or more like a bee humming. A thousand tiny prickly sensations shot thru my body, rendering my limbs and appendages paralysed. I was drifting to and fro out of consciousness. A feeling of separation was happening now and an urging to let go. I fought it with horror, fearing I would die if I surrendered. My soul wanted to flee, but my flesh sensed death. Eventually, I felt a presence in the room, a light form, coaxing me to let go. Weary, I ultimately released and accept what fate was for me. Blackness.

    I traveled to what I would call the Akashic records and heard a voice bellow, "Know the Laws, learn the Laws, master the Laws - He who knows the Laws, learn the Laws, master the Laws, rules the Universe." I traveled to other places and made sacred vows. Despite what seemed like a night's sleep, my experience ended only a few minutes from the time I first laid my head down. I know because I woke up from the adventure in sweat.

    Laying back down, I went to sleep immediately. From sleep, I step into an African savanna because I could see the baobab trees interspersing the grasslands. I was entranced by one of the trees, I walked over to it and wrapped around one of its limbs was a fat python. I went closer to see the python. He looked at me, intently, slowly winding around the limb. I could heard the limb creak from the pressure. As his eyes and mine met, I was transported into his body. My head was filled with a buzzing sound. Soon as we integrated, images began flashing in my mind. I could hear the python's voice saying, "Let me tell you about time...." Next I saw 7 shapes, different forms of sacred geometry. The serpent said, "They all look different, all appear differentiated, but they are all the same, the same energy manifesting at a different vibration - so is the same with time. Time is one but appears lineal because of the vibration at a certain point, it acquires a particular color." The shapes were all symbols of the body of the serpent. The serpent said, "We go now."

    I heard a loud clap and a saw a fade to blackness. The next thing I saw was a desert - the Sahara. As I stood in the desert, fascinated by the sea of sand, I saw an appartion in the distance. The shadow grew larger until I realized that a being was approaching. At a certain point, I saw it was a man. The man was very dark, a blackness close to blue. He was wrapped in white cloth with his head wrapped as well. He walked with a staff. Once he was close enough, I could see the grayness in his long beard and his close shaven woolly hair. He call out, "You, sala maa'le cuu. I have been waiting for you." I replied, "Who are you?" He responded, "I am Khrdt n Msr. You don't know me, but I know of you, young one. You are blood." He continued, "We have been anticipating your arrival. Where we stand now is called Tassili n Ajjer, but I truly know it as Mt s Sr." I felt like I knew this man, but from where and how?

    He kept talking, "Beneath these sands lay a book of secrets; it's a story of our people, (A)Z. In times passed, we built cities and monuments, but the sea has taken them." He was next to me now and reached out his right hand. His hand had symbols drawn it in what looked like henna ink. His staff was actually wood carved with a serpent going up it with a bird in flight at the top. I noticed around his neck were amulets of 4 pointed stars with some cryptic inscriptions on them. He reached out to embrace in greeting, clasping his hand around my forearm and wrapping his other arm around my back. He pulled away and said, "shst ktr", with a very glutteral "r", while he made finger and hand gestures to the sky. He was signing.

    "Young one, we go from here," he said as he walked away and gestured for me to come. My mind went black. When I came to, I was in a city with thousands of Black people walking pass me. We walked down a wide street that a huge marketplace was. I saw some women in headwraps, others with their hair twisted in long twists and others with low afros. He led me down a narrowed walkway with walls of stone on each side. We went into some tunnel, going deeper and deeper into the earth. I could feel a coolness, unlike the heat above the tunnel. We got to an area and everything was forgotten there. The only thing I remember was embracing men and women and seeing a celebration going on. Khrdt n Msr told me, "You are now Sm. You took the vows and the oaths. At one point, we needed no secrecy but because of jackals, scavengers, secrecy affords the loins more life. We go from here."

    The next thing I knew I was back in the desert with my guide, Khrdt n Msr. He said, "This is where we were - the beginning and the end appear different although they are the same. Both require respect and expect dignity." Reaching his hands into the sand, Khrdt n Msr made a shallow hole. At the bottom of this hole was stone tablet-like item with markings on it. "Here it is. The Children are looking for this and this is what they need. It has everything they need to create and rebuild, " he said. I glanced at it and saw gemstones embedded between the markings. Before everything could register for me, Khrdt n Msr put the tablet back in its grave and covered it with sand. "I wish I could give it to you, but you can not take anything back. It will stay here until one of the Children comes for it. Remember this is power of the ancients and is what is needed." With that, he rose slowly and began to walk away. I followed Khrdt n Msr with my eyes as far as I could. I understood why I was shown the tablet but also understood why I couldn't take it with me.

    This is my experience. I have kept it with me since I have experienced it, hoping I could gain more understanding from it. I am coming into an understanding, but I doubt it is the ultimate.

    Blackbird
     
  9. Blackbird

    Blackbird Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Brother Meta,

    I didn't mean to hijack your thread, but I felt compelled to post my experience. Something has been moving in me a few days to share what I know and have learned based on the traditions and technologies of our ancestors. I ask your forgiveness.

    Blackbird
     
  10. MRS. LADY

    MRS. LADY Banned MEMBER

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    this is real talk right here......

    I wish everyone could grasp what your saying here........
     
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