African Traditional Religion : Osiris and Horus - Father & Son or Brothers?

Discussion in 'African Traditional Religion Study Group' started by UBNaturally, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Please add corrections or amendments to this as so needed:

    In the beginning, there was the mighty god Ra and his wife Nut. Nut was in love with the god Geb. When Ra found out about this union he was furious. In his rage, he forbid Nut to have children on any of the 360 days that currently made up the year.

    Nut was very sad. She called on her friend, Thoth, to help her. He knew that Ra's curse must be fulfilled, but he had an idea. Thoth engaged the moon goddess, Silene, in a wager. At the time, Silene's light (the moon) rivaled the light of Ra (the sun). Thoth was victorious, he was rewarded with one seventh of Silene's light. This is why the moon now wanes each month.

    Thoth took this light and added five days to the calender, bringing the year from 360 days to 365. This gave Nut 5 days on which she could have children, while at the same time obeying Ra's commandment.

    On the first of these days, Nut gave birth to Osiris. On the second day Horus was born, Seth on the third, Isis the fourth, and Nephthys on the fifth day. At the time of Osiris' birth, a loud voice was heard all over the world, saying, "The lord of all the earth is born."


    Please chime in on the accurateness of this summation.


    Then there is the myth sometimes called the Birth and Flight of Horus. This tale, found in the Coffin Texts, is a combination of two stories. The first is the birth of Horus, and the second is a very old and fragmented myth that the sun burst out of an egg laid by a primeval being or goose floating on the primordial waters before creation. The Birth and Flight of Horus begins just after Osiriss death. The tone is much more serious than that of the Delta Cycle or the Great Quarrel.

    The world was being terrorized by Set. Isis dreamed that she would have a son who would avenge her husbands death and asked Atum if this son would be allowed a seat on the sun boat. However, just before the birth, Isis realized that she would be giving birth to a Falcon, not a child. Upon the birth, Atum saluted Horus and told him that he would give him his name after Horus flew to the horizon. While the company was discussing other matters, such as Horuss seat on the boat, Horus flew up on his own, higher than even the "old" gods who inhabited the constellations. Horus proclaimed to the gods below that he would, indeed, avenge his fathers death.

    This myth, as mentioned before, combines two others together. According to some sources, there were actually two gods named Horus. The first, the original Falcon, flew up at the beginning of time upon his birth. The second, son of Isis, was forced to grow up in secret for fear of Set, as described in the Delta Cycle myth. The myth of the Birth and Flight of Horus brings these two gods into one.


    Read more: http://www.touregypt.net/bafhorus.htm#ixzz314RW2R7b


    Did Isis have 2 children, 1 child, or none?



    As other writings make claim that Nut and Geb were the progenitors of Osiris, Horus, Seth, Isis and Nephthys in that order in as many days.

    [​IMG]

    In the beginning, there was the mighty god Ra and his wife Nut. Nut was in love with the god Geb. When Ra found out about this union he was furious. In his rage, he forbid Nut to have children on any of the 360 days that currently made up the year.

    it goes on to claim...

    Thoth took this light and added five days to the calender, bringing the year from 360 days to 365. This gave Nut 5 days on which she could have children, while at the same time obeying Ra's commandment. On the first of these days, Nut gave birth to Osiris. On the second day Horus was born, Seth on the third, Isis the fourth, and Nephthys on the fifth day. At the time of Osiris' birth, a loud voice was heard all over the world, saying, "The lord of all the earth is born."


    Day 1 - Osiris
    [​IMG]

    Day 2 - Horus(Falcon)
    [​IMG]

    Day 3 - Seth
    [​IMG]

    Day 4 - Isis
    [​IMG]

    Day 5 - Nephthys
    [​IMG]


    Ra and Horus (Falcon) of course seem to be the same, but definitely can't be as Nut was the wife of Ra?

    Will attempt to create a sort of "genealogy" or connectivity among the elements of the stories.

    But would like others to share their understanding of the accuracy or inaccuracy of this data as it relates to the stories. And if there are more one interpretation, where one has more consistency than the others.


    Respect




    Respect
     
  2. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Either nobody is familiar with this or doesn't want to touch it, because I am confused as to if this is accurate to the story, or nobody really cares?

    Thought sure there were a few "African Mythology" scholars on here that could share and reveal how to resolve this confusion.

    Or is this not considered "African Mythology"?


    Respect
     
  3. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    You need to do more in depth study to figure it all out. There is Heru-ur, or Horus the Elder, then there is Heru (Horus) the Younger.
     
  4. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In early Egypt, Horus was the brother of Isis, Osiris, Set and Nephthys. As different cults formed, he became the son of Isis and Osiris. Isis remained the sister of Osiris, Set, and Nephthys.
     
  5. RAPTOR

    RAPTOR Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You be me to it. That is the version I am familiar with.
     
  6. Enki

    Enki The Evolved Amphibian STAFF

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    Neither of you assumption are truly correct. You have members on here that have discussed this ad naseum, some, just haven't got around to responding to it. Some, aren't interested, and a host of other things. The thing is that many, many, many good threads only get views, but no responses. So it's not that none of us aren't familiar with it, or "don't want to touch it". It's just the nature of the beast.

    Peace!
     
  7. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yes, and I can only speak for myself, but oftentimes people bring up issues without doing the research or being involved as a spiritual practitioner, and then attempt to generalize their own confusion or lack of knowledge.

    As far as this thread is concerned there is Heru the Elder, brother of Ausar, then there is Heru the Younger, son and avenger of Ausar.

    One is the brother, one is the son, and we know that it is an ancient Afrakan tradition to name a son after the sister's brother.
     
  8. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    So there is no true consistent story or one that holds more reliability to be the genuine stories over the others?

    What I am getting from your response is that "Horus(the Elder/Brother)" that was created by "Nut", then later on the story morphed into "Horus(the Younger/Son)" becoming the Son of "Osiris"(created by "Osiris").

    "Nut" was the father of "Osiris" and "Horus"

    then later on...

    "Osiris" became the father of "Horus"
    (think this was after Isis put his body back together so they could create Horus after she found his "Phalic" and re-attached it)

    I agree with the "need to do more in depth study", but I ponder if it would just lead to the same conclusion of "too many versions of the stories" to decipher which direction is which.

    I appreciate your response, but I kind of already concluded that these were evolving stories and narratives, but wanted to see if there was anything more definitive to rely on.

    Respect
     
  9. UBNaturally

    UBNaturally Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I honestly didn't know that there were two "Heru" characters, as this is what made me start digging more to determine what was occurring.

    The "name a son after the sister's brother" is recognized and now made clear to these not being the same characters.

    Similar to how some older texts and stories have 6 different characters with the same names.

    Again, appreciate the instant clarity of the newness of revelation that there were at least two "Horus" characters, and not just the one we all think is referring to the same all the time.
     
  10. Enki

    Enki The Evolved Amphibian STAFF

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    :toast:

    I saw a video that showed that many of the greek gods were the Egyptian gods...they name was just changed, and much of it was in the meaning of the words. The term used was "construct form", where a word is constructed from a base word. Like the word Elohim.

    I know you and many other members have debated these issues many, many times, and have gone way deeper than this. All one has to do is look at that blog of you and the info you have on it to see you are well versed in these matters. I know form my own reading that different cultures like the Sumerians can be tied to these same gods. Running with the first thing you find without going deeper is often a bad thing, I was bad about that until I started reading deeper.

    Peace!
     
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