Black Women : On the Verge: Are We Leaving Black Men Behind?

Discussion in 'Black Women - Mothers - Sisters - Daughters' started by Thuso, Apr 1, 2005.

  1. Thuso

    Thuso Member MEMBER

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    Here is an interesting article from Jill Nelson. As Jill explains, relationships between Black men and women aren't just suffering from the lingering effects of slavery and ongoing racism--there's also the little matter of our own academic and career success. The entire article can be read at NiaOnline.com.

    She poses some thought provoking questions and makes some insightful observations. The key questions are:
    Do you feel that your level of education has affected your relationships with Black men? How so? Are we in danger of leaving our men behind as we climb the ladder of success? Can we repair our relationships by rethinking the qualities we look for in a partner?

    What are your thoughts?

    --Jill Nelson is the author of Straight, No Chaser: How I Became a Grown-Up Black Woman

    Thuso
     
  2. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    *warning this one is going to be controversial*

    Thank you for posting this brother Thuso! I have observed over the years that the media (white & supposedly black) have written several sensational stories about the black woman advancing at a more rapid pace than the black man. The primary reason given for this rapid advance is that black women in large have a higher level of education than black men. In truth there are more black women with college degrees, than black men with college degrees. However the actual numbers are not as dramatic as new reports suggest: According to the 2003 US Census 15% of Black Women (age 15 and older) hold a Bachelors Degree or higher. In comparison 13% of Black Men (age 14 and older) hold a Bachelors Degree or higher. In total (both men and women) 14% of African American hold a Bachelors Degree or higher.

    http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/education/cps2003/tab01a-04.pdf

    If the news reports, internet forum topics, and magazine articles are to be believed Black women are vastly exceeding Black men in educational attainment. Yet it is plain to see that the actual difference isn't that great (the percentage of black women who obtain college degrees are only 2 points higher than men). The female population exceeds the male population in the black community. Therefore in addition the percentage differential, the number of black women with college degrees would exceed black men, simply because there are more black women. Still the differences are not that great, and in no way does it justify the alarm sent out within our community! In addition to this, it should also be pointed out that white women earn degrees at a higher percentage than white men (they also outnumber their male counterparts). However no one is up in arms about that.

    If the Black woman is beginning to outperform the Black man in the workforce, there are more factors at play than level of education. This is what we need to focus on. Where are these women working, and who are they working for? Are we talking about the number of Black women who are their own businesses? Women who have become successful as a result of their innovative ideas? Or are we talking about Black women becoming more successful than Black men in white corporate America? If we are talking about the latter, then I suggest we need to look at racism. This is especially important in light of my illustrating that the educational levels between Black men and women are not that extreme. Indeed I ask outright is a primary factor in the Black woman's rapid rise over the Black man largely due to white America's preference to work with a Black woman? Is the Black woman seen to be less of a threat to white corporate America? Is the Black woman more desirable (take that however you will) to white corporate America?

    These questions are even more relevant when we consider that the numbers of African Americans with college degrees are in the overwhelming minority (14% of the population). Yet we are still seeing black women excel in the workforce at a more rapid pace than black men. There is clearly bias at play here. I've been very disappointed in the "gloating" done by some black women (and their white male supporters) in the media over the past few years. There are some brilliant business minds amoung Black women in this country. In no way am I trying to diminish their accomplishments. However, I think it should be apparent that in today's time Black women are given easier access to corporations than Black men. We are living in an age of "hidden racism" & conceiled discrimination. Bias often occurs in ways that aren't obvious. In the overwhelming majority of the cases, we don't control the companies that we apply to. These corporations (usually controlled by white males) are free to hire whomever they wish. In the case of a corporation that seeks to hire & promote black women over black men, bias isn't apparent (because a black person is being hired and promoted). However that doesn't mean this isn't what is happening.

    All this being said, Black women are becoming more successful than Black men. Many are on the verge of leaving them behind. It is causing a wedge in our community, and needs to be addressed. I encourage those who are interested in looking at all the factors involved. As I've pointed out, there is more to this story than meets the eye. The black woman surpassing the black man is not something to celebrate or gloat over. If our community is to flourish, we must both rise together!
     
  3. karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    I agree that racism in Corporate America gives black women an advantage. Black women are less threatening for the white man than a black man.

    Education-wise, though, I think this is something that black women are deciding to do on their own. Why? I guess because they feel they have to do that to advance in their careers, which many of them NEED to support themselves and their kids. The dynamics of the black family nowadays, which have seriously demised due to the faults of both black men and women, pretty much require that.

    In addition, from what I have noticed from some of my husband's friends, my husband's brother, etc. (men who encompass ALL RACIAL SPECTRUMS), some men in GENERAL seem to not be as motivated in their lives until something comes along letting them know it's time to want more for themselves. They seem to be more satisfied with the basics in life, because all they have to worry about at that point is taking care of themselves.

    There are other situations too, where a parent, especially a mother spoils her boy too much. Why should he have to go to college and get himself a nice career if his mama is paying all of his bills, getting him the most stylish clothes, not setting up any boundaries for him, etc. The way some mothers raise their sons are setting them up to be failures when they become men.

    Anyway, getting back to the post... are black women leaving black men behind? Despite all the hype, most of what I see around me when it comes to black people coupling off are black men and women. If there is some IR, stats show it's usually black men nowadays who cross the color line. And even with this it's not that bad, though I have heard in some areas such as Minnesota the rate of black men going IR is higher than average, to the point that black women are overlooked for romantic relationships. The person that told me that wasn't even black, so it does make me wonder, but I think that's still a unique situation.

    Either way, I don't have a problem personally if a black man or woman does date IR, but I agree it shouldn't be done to escape the so-called problems of their community. If it's done for attraction, fine... any other reason is wrong.
     
  4. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Excellent reply! I agree 100%
     
  5. HODEE

    HODEE Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Great article Thuso.
    Welcome to Destee.

    Black men have some bad fertilizer and rain falling ( on us ) in our lives at this time. So we must stay out of the rain as much as possible and keep dry. By enhancing our chances of getting ahead. We do have the notion get paid right. But it is all about how we go about it. We have to do more building of groups of successful thinkers and doers. Collaborating on serious issues and things that will make us grow. I often bring this to my cousins, and nephews. My family is very close knitted. One of the small can lodge a complaint up line, and have as much power as the oldest in the line in my family tree. This is something you find and recognized right away. If you come around. ( No one is allowed to take from another, bad mouth or cheat or smother ) So it is a check and balance going on my mother established with us. The large is no more powerful than the small. In my family's tree every branch yields great power. I have instilled that into my kids and they are to do the same for theirs.

    Surveys are trusted, until they do not yield the desired and needed information. They are tossed and disregarded if the do not support the premise. For example ( how many have heard the poll about 2/3 of Americans think the U.S. should dismantle and never have nuclear weapons again ) they took the poll and do like the results. So now they will scrap that one and reword things to get the desired reply. Folks are tired of the president ( king ) kicking the subjects. ( Us ) Taking our taxes and giving nothing in return.

    My point is black men haven't been totally put out of the game. We are survivors. As our ancestors mastered the jungle, this one will soon be mastered too. :bazooka:

    Pan is correct it isn't something that should be celebrated.

    I read this one post of a reader on that site and the lady made a good point. As she climbed the ladder of success, she lone for her black soul mate to be there at these functions she attended. She voiced her real concern of not finding a trustworthy mate, and some one that remained honest. ( that pendulum swings on both sides of the street. Because when you leave for work, you don't want to find your mate has gambled all of your furniture away ) ( had everyone one on the block in your bed ) messing with your head...

    The set-up I will call it have worked hard all these years on this plan to keep the black men from attaining the success they deserve and desire. We are just as educated, not in the mass numbers, as black women. Because many black men of college age are behind bars. Broken in sprit, and caught up in the game. Of being dishonest, and deceptive. Putting the issue of gaining something to sustain him like a home and a education etc...last, getting the booty first is all consuming to many these days. ( wrong jungle to conquer at this time, especially if you have no time or cash to dine ) ( made me think of Destee's post about, how important is sex to you... thread )

    The author spoke of woman sliding under the radar, and I agree that is part of it. They are allowed to do so many more are in the reach of white men that desire to break us up and get them for them selves. During slavery they could just take her, but now the have to fool her ( console ) and get her comfortable before they move in for the take over. This is a big factor in the attack on black men. I know this fact. if we were successful, it is known that we would not only have our beautiful black sisters at our side, but all of the white woman would be wanting us more because of our ( charisma ) lion walk pride.
     
  6. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    This is an exceptionally keen observation sister, and one that I think a lot of mothers overlook or don't want to admit.


    Historically, black women have been sent to college by their parents for one, to protect them from the sexual assault on the part of white male employers and secondly, to give them the chance to enhance their opportunities and afford them a better life than the parents themselves had.
     
  7. Sekhemu

    Sekhemu Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Another keen observation, excellent points
     
  8. HODEE

    HODEE Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I agree that racism in Corporate America gives black women an advantage. Black women are less threatening for the white man than a black man.

    There are other situations too, where a parent, especially a mother spoils her boy too much. Why should he have to go to college and get himself a nice career if his mama is paying all of his bills, getting him the most stylish clothes, not setting up any boundaries for him, etc. The way some mothers raise their sons are setting them up to be failures when they become men.

    ==========

    I agree with the less threatened comment of corporate white men. Too they want the booty. Any thing to hurt the black man, steal all from him and keep him unbalanced. Then he has to know his balance to regain it.

    ( Hint: :happens: get your balance... get your balance... take care of your family.. pay your bills if you can and always try and do right. Thou shalt not kill... don’t break the commandments of GOD and you will not be following the devil – you know who he is right? ) This is for those who do not know how to let go of mothers apron strings and think it is cool to be LOYAL to the GAME!

    I also agree to a great degree with the other statement of parents spoiling the child. But the case does have some holes. A parent should pay the bills until the child graduates from college. If a child needs a down payment to buy a home they should be given that if a parent can afford it. I have these plans for my son and daughter. But if I see my son wasting time, I would pull the comfort rug so fast their nose would bleed. I had them both in preschools for three years, private school for over eight years. Now they are in public. ( my wife wanted this, and my position is if we can we do. If we can't we don't. Plus a time came and my son wanted to play football. His private school didn't offer this. I'm enjoying the savings and would have tons of cash in the bank for college and me a few more trips, but I do not regret nor cry over spilled milk. I go milk my cow again.

    I have many more talks with my son. I tell him it is his job to watch out and protect and look in on his sisters well being. In my absense. Charge from te top down.. power from the small up. So she has the same powr over him. Lookin on each other. I told him here are my riches. The are yours to do with when I am gone. This is my insrance policy. The wil have over two hundered thousand each after mother and I are gone. Here is my merchat license, here is my credit card privaleges, here is the bank account you kept you allowance in. Here is everthing. Basically we talk about everything from sex to respect. Teach the kids.. do not be afraid.
     
  9. panafrica

    panafrica Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Absolutely brother Hodee, there is more truth to this than people realize (I hinted at it in my original reply). Again black women are rising faster than Black men in white male controlled companies. They aren't significantly more educated than black men, as I've demonstrated. Surely people can't believe this isn't a deliberate plan? It is common sense that if women are becoming more successful than men in a community, and if they don't feel a need for their men to survive. Tension would result from that development. This is an attempt (a very successful attempt) to further divide the black community, which is always a goal of white supremacy!
     
  10. karmashines

    karmashines Banned MEMBER

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    Supporting an adult child through college is definitely not spoiling him. A son that is going to college is doing something with his life, so that's not the scearnio that I speak of. I'm talking more about parents who support adult children who are doing nothing for themselves, whether it's seeking employment or going to college.

    Down payment for a house is not the same thing either. As long as the adult child plans on paying the mortgage on their own, which means ultimately depending on himself/herself that's what should matter.

    In fact none of the examples you gave I would consider spoiling a child. Giving your child things is fine... it's continuing to give things to unappreciative, lazy adult kid that's a problem.
     
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