Black Women : Not necessarily about sistas, but ...

Discussion in 'Black Women - Mothers - Sisters - Daughters' started by ZeroGravity, Jun 6, 2003.

  1. ZeroGravity

    ZeroGravity Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I was reading (from one of the links of a site NNQueen provided) about the increase number of women becoming suicide bombers. I think 48 Hours or one of those shows did a segment on this as well last year. I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now....I just can't conceive in my mind the image of a woman as a suicide bomber, it's almost just as hard for me to visualize men as suicide bombers, but a woman?

    Most of these women are young (and in a lot of cases...college students). Is it culture? religion? martyrdom? WHAT???

    Any comments?
     
  2. Thandiwe

    Thandiwe Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    i think we haven't been use to seeing or hearing about women being suicide bombers another reason why it can be effective. however just as in the black civil rights cause, i'm sure there are women who stand for their cause in iraq, as well.

    i don't think we yet understand their reasons behind their cause and beliefs. until we can even begin to understand others, we won't be near coming to an mutually, satisfying outcome.
     
  3. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The Suicide Bomber:

    (Excerpt from the following link) "Islamic law explicitly prohibits suicide and the killing of innocents. Muslims are consequently extremely reluctant to refer to the human bombers as suicide bombers. They refer to them instead as shuhada (in singular: shahid), or martyrs. Palestinians are also reluctant to use the expression "Israeli civilians," which implies that they are innocent victims. Even if they are Israeli dissidents they are not regarded as such." Read more details at this link:
    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/15979

    Women Suicide Bombers:

    (Excerpt from the following link) "The female suicide bombers are idealists who crave committing a pure act, one that will wipe away the stigma of being female. The Palestinian community is not sacrificing low women, women of no accomplishment, women with no future. Instead, the women suicide bombers are the society's best in terms of human resources, a perverted example of the best and the brightest. There are reasons for this."

    Read more about this article at this link:
    http://www.feminista.com/v5n1/dworkin.html

    Hopefully this helps give a better an understanding of what's happening in the Middle East and why people are willing to die in such a violent way, for something they believe in so strongly.

    Peace!
     
  4. Mahogany_Brown

    Mahogany_Brown Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Maybe its also an act of desperation. Maybe the women who live in Palestine, who have to live through the constant Israeli incursion into their land every single ,are just so beaten down and hopeless that they feel that they have to do something and this is what they feel they must do.

    I'm not condoning this type of retaliation, but it must be awful to watch your family and friends be slaughtered on a daily basis, and feeling as if no one cares what happens to you or your people. From what I know about the Israeli/Palestinian situation I can see how someone would think that this is the only way since they live in constant terror every minute, but as I said before I don't condone suicide bombing because every one suffers(both Palestinians and Israelis) when this is done, and it fuels the Israeli military and the Israeli settlers to murder more Palestinians, especially little boys because thats who the military are gunning for considering that over 60%(or higher)of Palestine's population is under the age of 16.
    Peace
     
  5. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Actually I can think of situations or circumstances where I would be willing to give my life in order that others might live. But I'll admit that I can't seem to wrap my mind around nor understand any reason why someone would want to die in order to take the lives of others. I can't grasp that concept.

    Could it be possible that these "freedom fighters" don't see what they are doing as an act of killing people, but rather an act to end a form of oppression and annihilation so that others may be free to live?

    Are they so deeply rooted in their religious beliefs (or fanaticism) that a hunk of dirt has become more precious than life itself?

    Maybe that's crude of me to think that way. It's possible that I'm oversimplifying the issues involved. I'm certainly no political or religious guru when it comes to the "middle east."

    The whole situation is extremely disturbing though because if such an act of "terrorism" should catch on by enemies of the U.S., well...how could it ever be stopped?
     
  6. Mahogany_Brown

    Mahogany_Brown Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hey NNQueen

    I see where you're coming from, and I understand that the term "suicide bomber" is a very emotional term. Most people cannot imagine a person actually taking their own life for a cause. However, maybe that might be due to our western style of thinking. The reason why Americans cannot empatize/show compassion to the Palestinians is because as soon as the phrase 'suicide bomber' is uttered their fearful nature immediately takes over and they refuse to even be logical by asking pertinent question about the Israeli invasion.

    How can one so easily condemn the Palestinian people who are trying to retain and defend their land and their people, but refuse to ask why the Jews have invaded the land of the Palestinians in the first place. The two countries are at war and in war drastic means are taken. Maybe I shouldn't even say that they are at war because the Palestinians do not have an army. Sadly, what they do have are rock throwing children and desperate men and women.

    I feel sorrow and compassion for the Palestinians who are assasinated daily by the Israeli military and settlers and I also feel sorrow for the victims and family of the victims in Israel who have died unecessarily in this situation, which is based on greed by the part of a group of zionists. I'm no expert on the middle east situation either, but I listen to alternative news sources, not commercial media and I question, use common sense and draw my own conclusions.

    I would also compare the Israeli/Palestinian situation to the apartheid system in South Africa, maybe thats why people who have been historically oppressed and brutalized feel such compassion for the Palestinian people.


    p.s. i'm not sure if the Palestinians are rooted in a religious belief, but i can definitely say that the zionists are, they feel that "God" promised them that land(Palestinain land) so they feel that "God" is the only one that they should answer to, how do you fight that? Isn't that fanaticism? The same thing was said when the europeans invaded North, South America and the Caribbean and the same thing was said when they invaded Africa to steal it, and also said when they captured millions of Africans and shipped them to America. I'm sure they're are deeper issues behind the Israeli/Palestinian situation that we are not even aware of, meaning who knows what other sinister entities are promoting this bloodshed for their own hidden agenda.
    Peace.
     
  7. ZeroGravity

    ZeroGravity Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I ahhh ...

    MB you kinda redressed the sentiment of the thinking of some of the women. One interviewed said that she just got tired of living in fear and that she was thinking that it was best...if she had to die, to take some folks with her.

    Queen...yeah, I've come to believe that I would give my life to save the life of "select" people :) but for a political or religious cause...no way, however, since I cannot begin to even understand this mindset that would cause someone to do something like that, or since I don't live in fear of dying everyday from the hands of a clear and present danger, I certainly don't condone human bombers, but I can't say that their actions are without cause. (you know what I'm saying? lol)

    Thandiwe, welcome back sis. It was mentioned that woman, can be a more effective bomber, because 1) it's not expected (but now it's no longer a surprise) and 2) they can conceal better. So you were right on point with your assessment.

    Man, the freedom (real or otherwise) we have in this country cannot be overstated in my mind. Even here, when we lose hope, we do unthinkable things so I guess it's not that hard to imagine the atrosity going on over there afterall.
     
  8. NNQueen

    NNQueen going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Questions

    Yes, I see your points. When one's back is against the wall, what do you have to lose? What's the difference between strapping explosives to yourself and becoming a weapon, as opposed to picking up a gun and going to war to fight an enemy?

    Women participating in wars or fighting for a cause is not new. History is rife with evidence that women have fought with their men. I think that in modern times, Europeans have attempted to "civilize" their women, put them on a pedastal, so to speak, by excluding them from modern war games.

    But this position isn't always the case in other parts of the world. where your very existence is threatened and you're faced with possible extinction or the possibility of being permanently relegated to a life of poverty, injustice and dehumanization. Everyone fights to destroy the enemy, men, women and children.

    For example, I can recall during the conflict with Vietnam, Vietnamese women were extremely effective as soldiers/prostitutes. Children were often strapped with explosives and sent into the company of the enemy to explode and kill. This always caught American soldiers off-guard.

    Somehow though, I don't believe that Martin Luther King, Jr. would have taken this position or supported these acts because of his belief in non-violent resistence. He was a pacifist was he not? Did he believe in war? There is a moral dilemma involved in this whole situation, is there not?

    I understand the argument for defending one's self. But is it okay to take war to a country because you disagree with their government, their control, their political or religious beliefs?

    When men, women and children die, who really wins and who loses?


    Footnote: http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/p/pacifism.htm
     
  9. ZeroGravity

    ZeroGravity Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The thing I don't understand ...

    (good insight XXPANTHAXX), you summed up the fears and anxieties the people of the region faces on a daily basis, it understandable to a point. What I have difficulty in grasping (and please excuse my lack of knowledge ) is that it appear that the targets of the bombers are just regular citizens, not those that causes the fears and does the atrocities. Why can't their targets be soldier bunkers, or government building where the decisions are made in support of the violence there? What message does bombing a crowd of shoppers at a mall or on a bus sends? How effective is that? This is where my problem in understanding all of this lies.

    It is said also that they intentional recruit college students and women of some prominence to have a greater impact on martyrdom, to give creedence to the idea that the cause is worthy of dying even for those that perhaps could avoid the atrocities going on there.

    Queen you asked "what was the difference between strapping explosives to yourself and becoming a weapon, as opposed to picking up a gun and going to war to fight the enemy ?", the difference I see is what I mentioned above in that it appears the targets are not the ones causing the atrocities, but are mere citizens shopping or trying to get to work (again I could be wrong, but this is what I see being reported on the news).

    Your last question When men, women and children die, who really wins and who loses? says it all. That's it in a nutshell, imho. :)
     
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