Black Spirituality Religion : Non Believers?

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Music Producer, Jun 6, 2004.

  1. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Who does the Koran define as, “non believers”?
     
  2. IssaEl21

    IssaEl21 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The Religous World


    The Religious World Tell The Whole World That '' They Are To Follow There Customs '' Meaning The Whole World Is Supposed To Change 1000's Of Years Of Culture , For A 1,400 Year Old . Arad Culture ? And A 2000 Year Old Christian Culture , What Foolishness , Stop From Being An Egyptian . With All Her Gigantic Pyramids . Maps AndAll Of Her Other Achievements , And Stop Being A Sumerian And All Of Her Glorious Astronomy , Laws And Architecture , Or A Native American , With All Of Her Mighty Pyramids , Mounds , Arts Or A Chinese , With All Of The Silk , Great Wall , Or A Yoruba , With There Many Deities . That Goes Way Back Thousands Of Years Before The Arab Culture ? You Mean To Tell Me , I Am To Forget Many Many , Thousands Of Years , Of How We Live , What We Ate What We Wore, Why We Wore It , Who Do We Respect . Why Do We Respect Them And Follow YourCulture That Does Not Even Fit In With The Environment , Or Climate I Live In :spinn:
     
  3. rasheed

    rasheed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    2:285 The Messenger believes in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do all of the believers. Each one (of them) believes in Allah, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the end of all journeys."



    آمَنَ الرَّسُولُ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِن رَّبِّهِ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ كُلٌّ آمَنَ بِاللّهِ وَمَلآئِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّن رُّسُلِهِ وَقَالُواْ سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا غُفْرَانَكَ رَبَّنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ


    Above is one of the several verses (ayaat) of the Qur'an that decribes belief and the belivers, those who do not exhibit these qualities as enumerated in the verses (ayaat) of the Qur'an are non believers


    i offer the above from my understanding as a believing muslim; Your question was stated so clearly and simply, i'm looking now for you to come back with your complex explanation of what the Koran as you call it says a non believer is........

    And our Creator certainly knows best....................
     
  4. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I have no complex answer; my question was sincere. I read the Koran but I have not studied it in-depth as I have with the Old Testaments. But in looking at your answer in not distinguishing between the hosts of heaven I already see something from the Koran that I am at disagreement with. As I believe in YHVH and YHVH only, I must make a distinction between GOD/YHVH and HIS creations. Angels, Sons of GOD, Books and Apostles are all creations of the one True GOD/YHVH. This is the only way to believe in GOD, for the LORD proveth you. For example:


    Isa:44:24: Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;


    [50.38] And certainly We created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six periods and there touched Us not any fatigue.


    I don’t know if you can see it but we have a conflict when one does not distinguish between YHVH and the hosts of heaven.

    How do you perceive the Kingdom of GOD, as GOD creating the heavens and the earth by HIS self or do you see it being created by Gabriel and others?

    This is the problem that I have with most books, if you let them they will change your perception of GOD from what HE presents in the Old Testaments. The New Testaments does the same thing but more to the extreme.

    So how do you perceive the Kingdom of GOD, as GOD had told you in HIS own word or as Gabriel is telling you?

    Remember, you can’t serve two perceptions in these things and to not believe in it only in the way GOD is telling you is too not believe in GOD.
     
  5. rasheed

    rasheed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    i agree with the distinction between Creator (no matter what language name is used) and creation and that the Creator is All Powerful and needs none and no one's assistance in creating or anything else. All creation relies on the Creator for all of its needs. Allah (the Creator) is the sole creator of every thing. English language plurals in 50:38 that you quoted do not mean plurality to me but supreme authority and power.

    i do not look at the Qur'an as Gabriel speaking as you do. The Qur'an and any true scripture is the Word of the Creator. What is not the undisputed Word of the Creator is not scripture for me.

    It seems that we agree on this point. One of our differences (probably our main difference) is that i see the Qur'an as this undisputed Word and you see the Old Testament as such. i believe that the original Scripture revealed to Moses and all or the other Messengers is the undisputed Word of the Creator also. Gabriel has been only a medium sent by the Creator to deliver the Word to the messengers.....

    And surely the Creator knows the Reality......

     
  6. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    That’s one hell of a way to avoid the question. But I don’t think YHVH will accept it. Just a word of advice, ALLWAYS CHOOSE GOD, no matter what the circumstances.
    Gabriel is lying or the Koran in that particular passage is in error, period.

    You can’t see how you have been brainwashed to not accept GOD and GOD only. This same phenomenon occurs in the New Testaments but it is much more too the extreme. What if GOD ask you the same question, you going to spill all of that theory and belief stuff too HIM? I don’t think you will get passed the first sentence, because GOD only wants to know one thing, whom do you server and whom do you love and you have failed in proving that.

    Look man, if GOD tells you something and your father later tells you something that is contrary to what GOD has spoken, then you father is wrong.
    If your mother tells you something that is contrary to what GOD has spoken, then your mother is wrong.
    If Jesus tells you something that is contrary to what GOD has spoken, then Jesus is wrong.
    If a servant of Jesus like Peter, John, Luke or Paul tells you something that is contrary to what GOD has spoken, then Peter, John, Luke or Paul is wrong.
    If Mohammed tells you something that is contrary to what GOD has spoken, then Mohammed is wrong.

    That’s the bottom line and most important of all.
     
  7. IssaEl21

    IssaEl21 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I Don't Believe



    I Don't Believe , That's The Diffreence Me And You , When It Come To My Soul , I Want To Know . I Rather Have The Knowledge Of What The El'Holy Quraan , Or El's Holy Torah Etc . Is Really Saying Then What Some Minister / Rabb /. Imaan Etc , Telling Me What I Should Believe OverStand , The Moment You Accept Any Belief You Are Trapped In That Belief . I've Said Many Times That Belief Is Ignorance , To Ignore The Fact , Either Intentionally Or Ignorantly . If One Has To Believe , It Means He Or She Does Not Know ; And If One Does Not Know , That Is Ignorance , Thus , Religious Belief Without The Fact , Is Ignorance . Religion Is Meant To Trap Your Mind . It's Meant To Enslave You And To Give You Faith . It Doesn't Address Facts . It's Laced With Fictitious Things That They Fix . They Call It Education . I Call It '' Edited Dictation . '' Education Means '' Edited Dictation . '' There Is Nothing That You Learned In School = Sheol , Which Is Hebrew For Hell ... That Wasn't Dictated , Then Edited , And Then Proofread . Someone . Decided What Information They Wanted You To Get . Dectated It To Someone Else Who Transcrived It On Paper . Put It In A Text Book . Had Someone Proofread It . Then They Gave It To You And Said . '' Here Read This And Get An Education . '' Or Get An Edited Dictation . Its All Phonetic , But When You Get The Pieces To The Puzzle You Start Deciphering Their Trick . < Like You Try To Play On Here , That Your Get From Those Chrildren / Christian Book Store And Trying To Pass It Off AS Truth What >
     
  8. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You will not find what I have been trying to show you in no Christian bookstore. What I am showing you is not mainstream perception. People don’t like what I have to say because it restricts their desire to dream, invent gods and serve deities. That is the greatest sin of all.

    If you don’t believe in GOD in any way shape or form, just say it dude, let HIM know and poke your chest out when you say it. Let HIM know you are proud and steadfast in not believing in HIM.


    Deut:32:20: And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
     
  9. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    My point with this is the Koran could not exist with out the Old Testaments, nor could the New Testaments because they both make references to and are derivatives of the Old Testaments. But the Old Testaments can exist on its own and needs no other book to give one the absolute fulfillment of GOD.
     
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