Science and Technology : New Human Haplogroup Announcements Question the ’Out of Africa’ Hypothesis

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by Keino, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. Keino

    Keino Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    This is a really interesting story, and if true, will force at least some reconsideration of the “out-of-Africa” hypothesis currently the standard model in genetic reconstructions of human history (indeed, that is the model I followed in Genes, Giants, Monsters, and Men):

    Re-Examining the “Out of Africa” Theory and the Origin of Europeoids (Caucasoids) in Light of DNA Genealogy


    When one clicks on this article, there is a link to the open access paper itself, which is also well worth reading. Of interest here is the very first paragraph of the actual scientific paper:
    “This study concerns the origin of anatomically modern hu- mans, which presumably belong to Y chromosomal haplogroups A through T according to the classification developed in human genetics and DNA phylogeny of man. This paper 1) sets forth a timeframe for the origin of Europeoids (Caucasoids); 2) identi- fies their position among all haplogroups (tribes) known today on the haplogroup tree; and 3) offers evidence to re-examine the validity of the “Out of Africa” concept.” (Anatole A. Klyosov*, Igor L. Rozhanskii, “Re-Examining the “Out of Africa” Theory and the Origin of Europeoids (Caucasoids) in Light of DNA Genealogy”, Advances in Anthropology, 2012, Vol 2, No 2, 80-86, p. 80).​
    The first page zeroes in on how the Out of Africa hypothesis originated:
    “The concept was based primarily on the premise that Africa possesses the highest variability, or variance, of the human DNA and its segments. Set apart, it is not a strong argument because a mix of different DNA lineages also results in a high variability and, as we show below, it is largely what occurs in Africa. Moreover, a genomic gap exists between some Africans and non-Africans, which has also been interpreted as an argument that the latter descended from Afri- cans. A more plausible interpretation might have been that both current Africans and non-Africans descended separately from a more ancient common ancestor, thus forming a proverbial fork. A region where this downstream common ancestor arose would not necessarily be in Africa. In fact, it was never proven that he lived in Africa.”(Ibid.)​
    The significant “dent” in the Out of Africa hypothesis, according to the authors (Anatole A. Klyosov and Igor L. Rozhanskii), is that European Caucasians do not contain genetic markers common to the African haplogroups A or B (Ibid, p. 2). Indeed, the evidence, according to Klyosov and Rozhanskii, is rather strong that the Out of Africa hypothesis, at least in its standard version, is on rather wobbly ground:
    “A critical datapoint has emerged that disproves the “Out of Africa” concept; specifically, recent data shows that non-Afri- can people have neither M91, P97, M31, P82, M23, M114, P262, M32, M59, P289, P291, P102, M13, M171, M118 (hap-logroup A and its subclades SNPs), nor M60, M181, P90 (haplogroup B SNPs) in their Y-chromosomes.​
    “In fact, according to the data obtained from the “Walk Through the Y” (chromosome) international project conducted by Family Tree DNA (Texas and Arizona) [see Appendix] not one non-African participant out of more than 400 individuals in the Project tested positive to any of thirteen “African” sub- clades of haplogroup A…” (Ibid.,p. 83)​
    Now it is quite the crucial matter here to point out that this research is being conducted on the genetic signatures in the Y chromosome, that is to say, in males. On p. 84, Klysov and Rozhanskii produce a tree diagram, which clearly shows the two major branches of the human family(and ponder that diagram closely, and its implications), and it is worth citing their conclusions in this regard:
    “These data, based on the SNPs (Single Nucleotide Polymor- phism), along with the data based on the STRs (Short Tandem other and undeniably indicate that non-African people, bearers of haplogroups from C to T, did not descend from the “African” haplogroups A or B. Their origin is likely not in Africa. A higher variance of the DNA in Africa, which was a cornerstone of the “Out of Africa” theory, is explained by Figure 3, in which haplogroup A has been evolving (mutation-wise) for 132,000 years, while the non-European haplogroups are much younger. Hence, there is a lower variability in the latter. The same is related to language variability, which has also been used as an argument of the African origin of non-Africans. We believe that those arguments upon which the “Out of Africa” theory was based were, in fact, conjectural, incomplete and not actually data-driven. Therefore, we are left holding the question of the origin of Homo sapiens.”(Ibid., pp. 84-85.)​
    It remains to be seen how other geneticists will react to these findings or even if they will be confirmed. But for those studying ancient texts, it is interesting to recall that they speak of the male donor in the ancient “Mesopotamian genetic engineering project” – if we may call it that – as being “one of the gods.” It is additionally interesting that so many ancient myths, from the Norse to the Japanese, seem to indicate that some group of very European-described humanoids interacted with their local cultures and populations. This is a story that of course bears watching, but we can be sure that whatever debates this may touch off, or speculations concerning its possible relationship to ancient texts and myths, those debates will take place out of the public eye.
    - Giza Death Star Community
    I have always felt this was correct. In my honest opinion it has always been my belief that if yakub did create a people unlike himself, it was the indian man (dravidian). And from him, came the white man. One thing that makes me believe that even more is whenever a white person wants to go on a spiritual journey, they usually go to india (e.g. jeremy piven of recent). It seems this is home to them and I think it is for this reason.
    Whats even more strange is the findings point out 2 facts which coincide with the teachings of NOI and THEM. Firstly it points out the general vicinity where these europeoid haplogroups started was in the Levant area (israel, syria, jordan) - which is off the meditteranean sea (patmos), russian plain which I am guessing is near or at the foot of the caucasus mountains and to the south. Their migration saw them come east which also gives even more credence to the aryan invasions in india, but thats another story. Secondly, the time frame in which these haplogroups came about are strikingly close to those pivotal 6000 years which were taught. It almost seems whitey science is finally catching up. Or could it be all a coincidence?
    Thoughts?
     
  2. skuderjaymes

    skuderjaymes Contextualizer Synthesizer MEMBER

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  3. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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  4. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa,




    ... As a proponent of the Out of Africa Theory (OAT), for obvious reasons, this recent report of Russians attempting to debunk said Theory, falls in line with a long list of other attempts by non-Africans, which is to say white folk, to erase fundamental truth. Its very understandable why this is... The shoe is on the other foot now, and non-Africans abhor the bases of fact presented by OAT.

    Outside of the Yakub Theory, its unclear to me where you line up exactly Keino, but regardless, this abstract is ripe with racism, from my prespective:


    Which allows them to introduce this claim:

    Now comes absurdity which seems, at least to me, contradictory. A downstream common ancestor for both groups, wow:


    Yet the territorial origin is unknown, but most likely stretches from Central Europe to the Russian plain... yeah, right, lol....



    Peace In,


     
  5. skuderjaymes

    skuderjaymes Contextualizer Synthesizer MEMBER

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    thanks clyde.. I put it on scribd so we it can be read it without leaving the site..

     
  6. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That'll work... yvw


    Peace In,



     
  7. Keino

    Keino Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I personally would love to disown the caucasoid from my family tree lol. This was great news to me. Can you point out what was blatantly racist about the abstract? or contradictory?

    I am a layman when it comes to subjects like these so please bare with me.
     
  8. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa,




    ... Keino,

    lol, that's funny, a layman, bare with me, can I point out blatant racism in the abstract or contradictions. Since my highlights didn't work for you, assuming you read my post, here's a comment from MattB :


    MattB says:
    ‘Conflate linguistics with race’ huh? You are the one claiming that ‘aryans’ civilised the world-and the foundation for that argument is LANGUAGE! For someone who promotes ‘aryanism’, you don’t seem to be very familiar with organisations such as the Ahnenerbe or the Thule Gesellschaft.
    You continually mention the superiority of the ‘aryan race’ and the evil nature of Jews. I find your view that non ‘aryans’ are minderwertigen scientifically, linguistically and historically laughable.
    It appears that haven’t read particularly widely; the various pan German and PanEuropean cults from the 19 century were fixated with using language as the key driving force in proving that an ‘aryan’ global culture seeded the world with technology, language, art, science etc.
    I hate to tell you mate-THEY FAILED
    If you had read Dr. Farrell’s books you would know that some of these idiots are still trying to prove supremacy of the ‘white’ ‘races’ due to a pseudo-scientific belief that they are descendent of the gods and somehow better than the rest of humanity.
    Victor Mair provided NO evidence of technological transfer-and good luck in finding an ancient super civilisation in central Asia to match. The caucasians found in this region were highly nomadic-ever read about the Scythians?
    If I were closed minded i wouldn’t be conversing here, engaging with other who believe that our pre-history is quite different to the standard model. Unfortunately for you, the pre-history you argue for is complete nonsense and the polar opposite in its philosophical base to the owner of this forum.
    Also, I am a white man, 190cm and 110kg-green eyes and fair hair. My wife is blonde with blue eyes and so are my children. Please don’t throw the racial bias argument around.
    Please tell me you you subscribe to the hateful nonsense of ‘Theozoologie oder die Kunde von den Sodoms-Aefflingen und den Gotter-Elektron’
    It sure sounds like it.
    - Giza Death Star Community



    Peace In,



     
  9. Keino

    Keino Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    This is obviously going nowhere!

    Everything is technically a theory, it just so happens you have accepted the ooa theory (regarding the caucasoid) fully, which I on other hand have always questioned.

    Those comments were not in the article. If what some arrogant white person said hurts your feelings, get used to it - i have!
     
  10. Clyde C Coger Jr

    Clyde C Coger Jr going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In the Spirit of Sankofa,




    ... It appears you are terribly confused Keino. The Out of Africa Theory is pro africoid, not pro caucasoid. Its(OAT) posted here, thanks to me and skuderjaymes, give it a read.

    The comments are found below the article, and my feelings aren't hurt by what MattB said, lol, quite the contrary... In fact I applaud him for explaining the racialist attitudes of Farrell.

    Take care brother...


    Peace In,



     
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