Black People : Need Some Input From The Family

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by Kamau47, Sep 15, 2010.

  1. Kamau47

    Kamau47 Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,827
    Likes Received:
    1,297
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    In The Shadows
    Ratings:
    +1,304
    First, a little background on my situation.
    I have mentioned before that where I live is high unemployment (around 40%), with about an 85% black population.
    Now, the company I work for is owned by a group in Spain, and I am the union steward. We have an average of around 70+ employees, but during this time of year, have around 100.
    The thing is, there is a high mexican rate at work (around 75%), although they only make up less than 6% of the total population. I constantly see mexicans being hired over blacks. And to be honest with you, I am beginning to be bothered by this more and more, and am considering some sort of action either through the union, or other avenues. But there lies the problem.
    If I start making too many waves, I risk upsetting the owners to the point that they could just as well shut the place down. And believe me, I know they would. I don't want to see that happen because around here, jobs are scarce. Also, I spoke with another brother about this today, and he reminded me that a lot of brothers & sisters coming through the door fail the drug test given with 3 days of being hired, or that some have been hired only to not come back on their first break ( the jobs are not hard, but physical & continuous). I told him that though I understood his logic, that you still can't hold every black to that stereotype, that all blacks are not like that. I also reminded him if that was the case then, then blacks are not even being given a chance to prove his/her self, that we are being shut out right from jump.
    Family, I want to do something about this, but don't want to make things worse. So my question is simple.............do I or don't I.
     
  2. MsInterpret

    MsInterpret Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2007
    Messages:
    8,999
    Likes Received:
    5,440
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Washington
    Ratings:
    +5,448
    I understand what you are saying

    I worked at a warehouse a while back and they hired nothing but Hispanics....Barely any of them spoke English and I'm almost sure some of them might have been illegal.

    Now, my daughter's grandmother (not my mother) has a business and she told me once that they like to hire Mexicans because they are more reliable and that she doesn't like to hire blacks because she felt that they were not as dependable.

    Anyways, if you do plan on saying something, what do you plan on saying? Or are you asking what should you say?
     
  3. Kamau47

    Kamau47 Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,827
    Likes Received:
    1,297
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    In The Shadows
    Ratings:
    +1,304
    I'm not exactly sure what I'm asking MsI, maybe just some thoughts on it all.
    As I said, I want to start some action, but I am worried that it could cost a lot of bros. & sisters their jobs at a time when fighting for a job is more a common daily ritual around here.
    I'm just not sure.
     
  4. medusanegrita

    medusanegrita Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1,903
    Likes Received:
    564
    Location:
    STL Missouri
    Ratings:
    +565
    Reminds me of the old thread we had a while back about immigration - common sentiment was that Mexicans were taking the jobs. But how can mexicans take something that the Blacks don't even want? You said yourself they are failing drug tests, and that they aren't coming back after the first week because the job is hard. Apparently the Mexicans are passing the drug test and sticking with the job. Given that - you can't necessarily make a personal case that discrimination when it looks like Blacks are given the chance and then fail.

    Now don't get me wrong, I'm sure they are discriminating.... I'm just saying how it looks on the surface. Even I would question a case of discrimination when it seems Blacks are allowed a chance but fail at it at a higher rate than the Mexicans. Numbers would have to be looked at - how many applications of Mexicans versus Blacks are they getting per week/month/year? Compare that to the number of Blacks and Mexicans who actually fail drug test, to the number actually hired, to the rate of retention. This information alone would worth enough to 'make waves' and possibly get more blacks hired.

    But you also have yourself to think about. If the company closes, that leaves you unemployed.... but eligible for unemployment. You could submit an anonymous grievance about the possible discrimination. To me - the plant closing because of what you did means little to me. Either they close it or they don't. To those who don't have a job, it won't make much of a difference. To those who do - they can get unemployment and find another. Since most of those are Mexicans and not black..... the loss to blacks won't be that great. So do whatever you feel.
     
  5. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    32,017
    Likes Received:
    11,483
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    retired computer geek
    Location:
    north philly ghetto
    Ratings:
    +13,745
    i would not take action right now. times are too bad.
    i would take down any and all documentation. build a case.
    hit it later.
     
  6. skuderjaymes

    skuderjaymes Contextualizer Synthesizer MEMBER

    Country:
    Japan
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009
    Messages:
    8,757
    Likes Received:
    5,870
    Occupation:
    independent thoughtist thinker, context linker
    Location:
    theory to application to discussion to percussion
    Ratings:
    +6,043


    those kind of companies do what they have to do survive.. they mostly want
    folks to just come when they're suppose to and do what they're supposed to..
    the problem you're running up against is cultural.. the culture of the youth is
    destructive and irresponsible.. drugs and lax attitudes about drugs surround
    them and thy buy into that.. and they become those kinds of people.. I had
    the same problem as an employer.. I went out of my way to hire young folks
    that needed the work.. but what I discovered is that all these things that we
    talk about on this site.. all of the things working against them are indeed
    winning the fight.. and many of them have become the things that the
    stereotypes say that we are.. that's not your companies fault/problem/concern..

    what you can do is keep your eye on it at work.. but go out in the streets and setup
    a recruiting organization that prequalifies and trains would be applicants for
    these types of jobs.. get across to them the importance of group representation..
    and group integrity.. group image.. because in manufacturing, once they find a
    group that works well, they open the flood gates.. In california, you'll never find
    a place with only one philipino worker.. one gets in, works his butt off..
    then others follow.. young black folks have no sense of group.. concepts
    of race have blended together and led to confusion.. they want to be respected
    as a group but want to be judged as an independent individual with no
    responsibility to the group.. and they don't realize you can't have it both ways..

    ..and also remind the potential applicants that an immigrant worker that
    would be making $2 and hour doing the same thing in his own country
    will never be late.. never call-in.. never complain.. and to compete with
    them, you have to do the same.. once the bar moves, it's moved..
    nothing you can do but adapt and continue or change the game completely
    by finding your niche and starting your own thing..​
     
  7. Nameless

    Nameless Banned MEMBER

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    546
    Likes Received:
    110
    Ratings:
    +110

    When you don't know what to do, don't do anything.

    I would say rather then fight the stereotype just be certain your behaviors don't meet anyone's expectations.

    Your already beyond the "stereotype" because you are there.

    Uplift yourself, and your surroundings are sure to do the same.

    If you do decide to move forward, prepare yourself. unions also protect you from retaliation. Know the law, and use that, along with proof, meaning document everything

    Personally I would advise against it, because you would be as it seems the only one fisting this particular fight.

    I look at the "mexican" experinece, and from the view, statistically 70%, from what I've seen, of the catholic church is mexican. I've been there, and they have a strange affinity for the blessed mary war type statue thingy, so when I look at the oil situation and the disaster upon mexico, I'd rather just let them deal with them.

    I truly perceive that no one can hold no one down. Wealth is and attitude.

    Again, when you don't know what to do, don't do anything. I'd say just weather the storm for now.

    peace and may you find peace in whatever you do decide, or not. :)
     
  8. StefiA

    StefiA Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2010
    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    215
    Ratings:
    +215
    @Kamau47
    Sorry I may have missed this bit, but...
    Have you actually spoken with the management about this problem???
    Have you asked up the chain in your union for their advice???

    Here you have exactly the same argument about immigrants and English white folk...
    As in they think English people are idle and don't take low paid work seriously...
    So they'd rather employ immigrants who work harder and won't be so likely to just not turn up one day.
     
  9. Ankhur

    Ankhur Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Messages:
    14,710
    Likes Received:
    3,007
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    owner of various real estate concerns
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    Ratings:
    +3,015
    and he reminded me that a lot of brothers & sisters coming through the door fail the drug test given with 3 days of being hired, or that some have been hired only to not come back on their first break ( the jobs are not hard, but physical & continuous). I told him that though I understood his logic, that you still can't hold every black to that stereotype, that all blacks are not like that. I also reminded him if that was the case then,then blacks are not even being given a chance to prove his/her self, that we are being shut out right from jump.


    Brother there are many who where not always nationalists but grew upon the hard side of town

    And one cannot even make it as a clocker or organized crimie with those kinda work ethics cause in the Apple
    if folks doing that they cant' get a job no where not even "in the streets" Ya Heard me!

    You say jobs are tight, well brother this situation you mention got nothing to do with stereotypes, Mexicans, Vietnamese or little green men from Alpha Centauri, working twice as hard for 1/4 the pay, this has to do with folks there figuring out wether they are man or woman enough to make some sacrifices on they Swerve
    and sacrifices to their comfort zone to do some back stressing labor to pay the bills, and help their family rather then



    looking for help.

    And on a job where you have no shop stewart to adress your greivance to, who can you talk to in management without risking your own job?
    A union employee deals with management the way one deals with a pig, no trust!
    Have a problem say nothing more then, "page me a stewart"
    None there, then nothing to say.


    I don't keep raising the ish of the need for Black nationalism and collecive economics across this nation
    just to get post points!

    We saw the economy decline all through the Bush era and factories ad supermarkets that we could have purchased, with some of our trillion dollars
    and employed our youth, our craft journey persons and our elderly if they feel the need to be active or have no pension.

    If you come to NYC and go to 5th ave in Brooklyn or Roosevelt Ave in Queens, you see thousands of Mexican flags

    You come to Harlem and Bed Stuy you see thousands of white folks regentrifying the area
    and not a Red Black and Green Flag in site except on
    Labor day once a year

    The Mexicans have secret underground, not seeking photo-ops, REAL leadership, economic leadership,
    and when they pulled that non union Ethnic Unity wildcat walk out enmasse that fatefull day in Manhattan, not one white person was able to eat lunch in Manhattan that day.




    Never put your head on a train trak for those who are not using simple common sense.
     
  10. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    2,969
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    Gender:
    Male
    Ratings:
    +1,045
    This issue involves four elements:

    Immigration reform

    REPUTATION

    Work ethics

    Business Economics

    For the forseeable futher, Black workers will be competing with Mexican workers for the same type jobs. This is a reality that we must accept and deal with. Immigration reform should keep immigrants from driving the wages down below a living wage. Even so, no politician has the gonads to have them return to Mexico....so, mark it down, We have to be prepared to compete with Mexicans

    Reputation: Mexican workers have a reputation for being hard workers and dependable. Right, wrong, or indifferent, WE DON"T! That is reality...even among our own people, we do not have a positive reputation when compared to our competition. We might need to hire an image consultant or a public relations firm to help us out. JK :) I joke, but this is our reality.

    Work ethics: This issue seem to come up during every family gathering when we are shooting the breeze. When my uncles, cousins, and I talk, its just us...so nobody holds back what they really believe. Our young people are seriously lacking when it comes to work ethic. As stated in the OP, not showing up or not being able to pass a drug test is a clear indication that they really don't want a job or don't take having a job seriously.

    Business economics: The reality, from a business perspective is that if a business wants to STAY in business, if given a choice between a workforce that is dependable, and who are willing to work from "can" to "can't" and are drama free, and are willing to work for minimal salary as compared to a workforce that is undependable or has a reputation for undependablity, expect to start at top dollar, full of drama or have a reputation for drama, the latter is going to lose everytime.

    One of my uncles have a senario that he always bring up as an example...(it may or maynot be the greatest but it is the one he always uses) he says: "I've got 20 acres of watermelons sitting in the field, I need 20 good dependable men tomorrow morning at 7 o'clock sharp because I don't want them to rot on the vine and I got a customer waiting for them that is going to pay top dollar for them if I get them their by tomorrow evening" He then goes on to say "Can you find me twenty good dependable Black men, willing to work, willing to show up on time, work consistently while they are there, and remain there until the job is done to completion" He then says "I can show you 100 unproductive, undependable guys who are idle, with time on their hands but my watermelons will rot on the vine if I try to be a good Black employer and just hire our own"
     
Loading...