Black Christians : My views on Christianity

[NyneElementz]

Yes, I said that it was in the old testament. Also only food from the land was tithable, and not money. But you should know this.



Yes sista.....

It is only man's arrogance that makes him think we are the only form of life in this universe.



Again...it's not even my birth day. But I just luv my sista so....

1) only food was used as tithes
2) It is old testament
3) Because it is old testament you shouldn't be doing it....rrrrrriiiiigggghhhtttttt?

Luv and much respect my sista...

Peace!

Yes, I said that it was in the old testament. Also only food from the land was tithable, and not money. But you should know this.



Yes sista.....

It is only man's arrogance that makes him think we are the only form of life in this universe.



Again...it's not even my birth day. But I just luv my sista so....

1) only food was used as tithes
2) It is old testament
3) Because it is old testament you shouldn't be doing it....rrrrrriiiiigggghhhtttttt?

Luv and much respect my sista...

Peace!

Sorry, Enki, but I must interject here as you and this sister are in error on the subject of tithing. Tithing is neither limited to food or money. Both are included in all its definitions in the Hebrew. The original command was indeed given in terms of food, as Israel was an agricultural society. However, in actual biblical scripture, it was not limited to food. In Numbers 18:21, The Most High made it quite clear that ALL the tithes were to be brought into the temple to take care of the people who were in the priests position and the temple, because they were not given the authority to leave a legacy of possessions. Proverbs 3:9-10 goes further into it to extend the first honors, such as tithing, to money, along with all the first fruits of your labors, be it food, money, or other transferable possesions that satisfied the needs of priests. The promise of doing so was that the Most High would expand your possessions and places of storage to hold them, because the Most High's instructions were honored first. This is both logical and spiritual since even in those times, food had monetary value, both to the vending farmers and the buyers who purchased it. Even in the old testament, there was a treasury that the entire nation of Israel was to give to, or did you forget Joshua 7, where this was exposed? Further, this isn't just OLD Testament. Yeshua (Jesus) never lifted the command of tithing, and even mentioned in the NEW testament that doing so was good when he was rebuking the Pharisees (Matthew 23:23). In Luke 21:1-4, when the widow gave two mites, a form of money, into the temple treasury, did Yeshua stop her? NO! Why? She was doing it right! Notice, he remarked the amount she put in as a great portion of all she had. It's safe to say that part of the money she put in was a tenth, or a tithe, into the temple treasury.

As you can see, by biblical dictates, BOTH food AND money IS tithable, and was even carried from the temple to the newly created church by Yeshua's students. Rome was not an agricultural society, nor would they accept food as payment. Seeing the example of the poor widow, they carried on the continuation of tithing money. Even when it was first done by Abraham, he gave a tenth of all, including all the money that was taken in his rescue of his nephew Lot (Genesis 14:18-20). The only difference between OT and NT is that the OT command required it from the entire nation of Israel. The NT only requires it from those who believe Yeshua's teachings.

 

[NyneElementz]

Will take this one a little more slowly...

And to do so, will have to post the passages of text, which much deception can be created without the proper context:


Luk 18:9
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:


Luk 18:10
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.


Luk 18:11
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.


Luk 18:12
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.


Luk 18:13
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.


Luk 18:14
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


Notice again... a "Pharisee" in the context, and also a publican, which was a "system worker" or tax collector of sort... IE a politician (the label Republican is associated).

Now within this context "Yehashua" is speaking of the self-righteousness and piety of the Pharisee and how he looked down on the publican based on their works.

The Pharisee would claim to have no sin and be blameless, where as the publican admits their faults but does not tithe.

"for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."


But for those that got
"You should tithe because Luke 18 says so"...


out of this passage. reconsider the idea of getting out of those Pharisee temples

The Pharisees were blasted all throughout the New Testament writings, just look at what "John the Baptizer" had to say about them:

Mat 3:6
And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

Mat 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Mat 3:8
Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Mat 3:9
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Mat 3:10
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.


So the take from this is to follow the "Pharisees" ways?
Because the reference was the tithes from the Pharisees

Sorry, but the command of Tithing did not come from the Pharisees. In the scripture you were referencing, Yeshua was not criticizing Tithing at all, but the self-righteous egotistical attitude that tended to reside in the minds of many spiritual leaders who have lost sight of what their real duty is. Jesus' mentioning of tithing was not to indicate that tithing is wrong, but to indicate that you can be completely unjustified, no matter how much you obey the law of God brought by MOSES when you pray, act, or speak in the wrong spirit or attitude. In the prayer of the Pharisee, God knew that he tithed faithfully, but the law couldn't justify his ego. Obedience to the law of tithing was good, but he forgot the law of loving his neighbor as himself, and was therefore unjustified.

 

[NyneElementz]

Nice summation of what was already stated.
Aside from odd apology at the beginning to something that wasn't posted.

I am a patient brother. So will await for one to recognize the error.

First, help me understand this. You didn't post this?

So the take from this is to follow the "Pharisees" ways?
Because the reference was the tithes from the Pharisees

Or did I somehow take it out of context? If so, please explain.

 

[NyneElementz]

No worries...
Thank you for asking, seriously.

Some don't bother to ask for clarity, so respect.


The first comment that was mentioned was this:



Somehow I think one may have misread what was written:

"Because the reference was the tithes from the Pharisees"​

This did not claim or state that the command of Tithing came from the Pharisees.
This was merely claiming that the reference to that passage of text used by the other member was in context to what the Pharisee thought of his tithings in relation to the publican.

Hence... "the reference was the tithes from the Pharisees"

Which "Yehashua" was using as an example of piety and arrogance based on the works of tithing.
So the passage was not a good reference to use to support tithing.

That's what this was dealing with as for the comment that you initially quoted.

Then the mistake was mine. I apologize.

 

[Enki]

Sorry, Enki, but I must interject here as you and this sister are in error on the subject of tithing. Tithing is neither limited to food or money. Both are included in all its definitions in the Hebrew. The original command was indeed given in terms of food, as Israel was an agricultural society.

So how am I'm wrong then when this is what I said?

However, in actual biblical scripture, it was not limited to food. In Numbers 18:21, The Most High made it quite clear that ALL the tithes were to be brought into the temple to take care of the people who were in the priests position and the temple, because they were not given the authority to leave a legacy of possessions. Proverbs 3:9-10 goes further into it to extend the first honors, such as tithing, to money, along with all the first fruits of your labors, be it food, money, or other transferable possesions that satisfied the needs of priests. The promise of doing so was that the Most High would expand your possessions and places of storage to hold them, because the Most High's instructions were honored first. This is both logical and spiritual since even in those times, food had monetary value, both to the vending farmers and the buyers who purchased it. Even in the old testament, there was a treasury that the entire nation of Israel was to give to, or did you forget Joshua 7, where this was exposed? Further, this isn't just OLD Testament. Yeshua (Jesus) never lifted the command of tithing, and even mentioned in the NEW testament that doing so was good when he was rebuking the Pharisees (Matthew 23:23). In Luke 21:1-4, when the widow gave two mites, a form of money, into the temple treasury, did Yeshua stop her? NO! Why? She was doing it right! Notice, he remarked the amount she put in as a great portion of all she had. It's safe to say that part of the money she put in was a tenth, or a tithe, into the temple treasury.

Tithing was required under the old covenant which was required for the support of the old covenant ministers. Church leaders just found a way to keep the funds going. And now in this day and age it has gotten out of hand. They know they will get a pass on any wrong going from the flock. They all do the same thing, run to that bible and get the flock to jumpin and shoutin and all is forgiven......It happens everytime.

As you can see, by biblical dictates, BOTH food AND money IS tithable, and was even carried from the temple to the newly created church by Yeshua's students. Rome was not an agricultural society, nor would they accept food as payment. Seeing the example of the poor widow, they carried on the continuation of tithing money. Even when it was first done by Abraham, he gave a tenth of all, including all the money that was taken in his rescue of his nephew Lot (Genesis 14:18-20). The only difference between OT and NT is that the OT command required it from the entire nation of Israel. The NT only requires it from those who believe Yeshua's teachings.

You're wrong here.

Abraham nor Jacob’s tithing was commanded by god. Also there is no indication that this was their regular practice. What Abraham did was tithed the spoils from a battle he had, and nothing is said about his other possessions or his regular income

Peace!