Black People : My primary problem

Discussion in 'Black People Open Forum' started by truetothecause, Jul 1, 2009.

  1. truetothecause

    truetothecause Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    with being active here is the approval of ridicule and sarcasm as acceptable forms of communicating here at Destee.

    It is my OVERstanding that ridicule and sarcasm are ALLOWED in this "family" at the same time Respect is demanded by all.

    This poses the most contradictory and dang sickening dichotomy around for me.

    I have been involved with watching and listening to people all my life and professionally @ 25 yrs. I have come to KNOW that "ridicule" and "sarcasm" are major forms of DISRESPECT, extremely harmful and a primary cause of many a conflictual interactions people of Afreekan Descent experience.

    A careful examination of the terms in question will likely shed light on what I see.


    Respect is esteem for, or a sense of the worth or excellence of, a person, a personal quality, ability, or a manifestation of a personal quality or ability. In certain ways, respect manifests itself as a kind of ethic or principle, such as in the commonly taught concept of "[having] respect for others" or the ethic of reciprocity.
    Esteem for, or a sense of the worth, or excellence, of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability: I have great respect for her judgment.

    Deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment: respect for a suspect's right to counsel; to show respect for the flag; respect for the elderly.



    Sarcasm is the use of sharp, cutting remarks or language intended to mock, wound, or subject to contempt or ridicule.[1] It is first recorded in English in The Shepheardes Calender in 1579:Tom piper) An Ironical [Sarcasmus], spoken in derision of these rude wits, which make more account of a rhyming Rimbaud, then of skill grounded upon learning and judgment.
    —Edmund Spenser[1]
    It comes from the ancient Greek σαρκάζω (sarkazo) meaning 'to tear flesh' but the ancient Greek word for the rhetorical concept of taunting was instead χλευασμός (chleyasmόs). Sarcasm appears several times in the Old Testament, for example:
    Lo, you see the man is mad;
    why then have you brought him to me? Do I lack madmen, that you have brought this fellow to play the madman in my presence?
    —Achish, king of Gath, I Sam 21:10-15[2]
    Hostile, critical comments may be expressed in an ironic way such as saying "don't work too hard" to a lazy worker. The use of irony introduces an element of humour which may make the criticism seem more polite and less aggressive but understanding the subtlety of this usage requires second-order interpretation of the speaker's intentions. This sophisticated understanding is lacking in people with brain damage, dementia and autism[3], and this perception has been located by MRI in the right parahippocampal gyrus.[4][5]
    Understanding sarcasm is a very complicated process to grasp. It is considered to be one of the last and most advanced concepts for children to comprehend. It is usually not fully understood till the age of twelve and sometimes much later.
    In certain Ethiopic languages, sarcasm is indicated with a sarcasm mark, a character that looks like a backwards question mark at the end of a sentence, similar to Alcanter de Brahm's proposed irony mark (؟). Subtitles, such as in Teletext, sometimes use an exclamation mark in brackets to mark sarcasm: (!).


    Appeal to ridicule, also called the Horse Laugh[1], is a logical fallacy which presents the opponent's argument in a way that appears ridiculous, often to the extent of creating a straw man of the actual argument. For example:
    • If Einstein's theory of relativity is right, that would mean that when I drive my car it gets shorter and heavier the faster I go. That's crazy! (This is, in fact, true, but the effect is so minuscule a human observer will not notice.)
    • If the theory of evolution were true, that would mean that your great great great grandfather was a gorilla! (False, since the theory states that humans and gorillas evolved from a common early ancestor and clearly states evolution took many more than 5 generations.)
    This is a rhetorical tactic which mocks an opponent's argument, attempting to inspire an emotional reaction (making it a type of appeal to emotion) in the audience and to highlight the counter-intuitive aspects of that argument, making it appear foolish and contrary to common sense. This is typically done by demonstrating the argument's logic in an extremely absurd way or by presenting the argument in an overly simplified way, and often involves an appeal to consequences.
    Appeal to Ridicule is often found in the form of challenging one's credentials or maturity;
    • Nobody believes in objectivism after college! Grow up.
    The argument is ridiculed on the basis that having a view commonly associated with youth is somehow invalid.
    Other such fallacious arguments may include:
    • You haven't even graduated from college yet! Come back and talk to me when you have your Ph.D
    • It's funny you think you know so much about people, even though you're not a psychologist.
    • It's funny you think you know so much about money, even though you're not an economist.
    • He is not married, therefore he must not know anything about relationships!
    • She is not a parent, therefore she must not know anything about children!
    • She is not a man, therefore she must not know anything about men!
    • She is younger than I am, therefore she cannot know more than I do!
    • Don't like X? What's the matter? Too deep for you?
    • You ae not a Christian and therefore your interpretation of the Bible is wrong
    Although they appear very similar, this fallacy should not be confused with reductio ad absurdum, which is a valid type of logical argument. It should also not be confused with ridiculing the person making the argument, which is a form of the ad hominem fallacy.

    I just don't under or over stand how and why ridicule and sarcasm are fair game yet asking questions or sharing information about another Religious belief system is disrespect.


    I've posted this because I have been telling Brother Clyde for several weeks now that I've had some thoughts on all the recent events. I'm not currently able to video so I've been working towards a written post. This is not the best I can do, yet, I wanted to say something without further delay and before I go away.

    I've been working on this for the past hour or so dealing with in house distractions and emotional winding down. It's been a looooonnnnnggggg day.

    I listen to constant sarcasm, ridiculing, demands of "proof" such that seems many are unable to hear each other and the end result is always emotional harm or denial of same. I can tell tho, when a person is working to hide there pain. I'm seeking a sanctity to at least have a break for the Word Wars and the pain inflicted.

    I fully overstand Brother Edward Williams and the Counter Racism works of Nelly Fuller's call for "Minimizing Contact to Minimize Conflict" and so .....you don't see or hear me much more around these parts.


    That's all I have to say for now. Thanks for listening to me share!

    M.E.
    :hearts2:
     
  2. anAfrican

    anAfrican Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    :bingo: straight across the plate, M'Lady!

    that alexithymia must be in remission; couldn't have expressed my feelings (as well as those of some really good people that used to be here .. ) any better! :bullseye:

    thnx!
     
  3. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Sister True and Brother anAfrican ... sometimes i wanna leave too ... :grouphug:

    I surely understand how you feel, and your disappointment that this community hasn't been all that you expected, hoped, or dreamed. I wish i could tell you that we'd be all of that, but God knows, it's a challenge simply being what we are. I'm probably more tired of struggling with this place, than anyone else in the world.

    It's just not easy bringing a whole bunch of us together, when our primary reason for being, is to provide a peaceful and loving environment for all. That's simply not easy to do. In this day and time? In this world? Our People? It is not easy, by any stretch of the imagination. I surely understand your dismay and desire to move on.

    In this link, i encourage all those that want to leave, to do that, and to put in a portion for me.

    Just a smidgen ... a tinch ... if you don't mind, for i'm obligated to be here, bound to what God gave me to do.

    I love you both, appreciate you so much, all the days, weeks, months, and years that you've shared your precious selves here ... you and every single Sister and Brother that has crossed our threshold ... coming or going ... i love, appreciate, and am honored by it all. I understand that there comes a time when folk outgrow a thing, or it just doesn't move them the same anymore, or the circumstance of life requires a change. I understand it and respect it.

    Thank you for helping us be what we are right now. Thank You.

    Much Love and Peace.

    :heart:

    Destee

    ::
    ::

     
  4. anAfrican

    anAfrican Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    true dat, sistah destee. terribly sorry to have added anything to the load you bear, or to cause you to "remember" your own frustrations, beloved.

    but when one spends one's day working with those of us out here on the fringes, (whether frustrated by/lost to homelessness, alcohol/drugs and/or struggling with the "mental death system" [court mandated or otherwise] and/or fighting to maintain one's SelfHood in spite of the "dept. of corruption"), sometimes one just has to vent. a tribute to you that some of us feel like we can do a little bit of it here.

    true enough, there be plenty here to sooth one's soul, but, yeah; looking around at the state/pains of all of us, just knowing that the only thing this planet needs for True Healing is for Africa to Re-Assert OurSelf, sometimes one just wants to chuck it all in. but, hey! can't do that cuz it is so much more fun this side of that pine box in spite of everything.

    for you, destee, a cyber hug:
    :flowers:{{{{Destee}}}}:flowers:
    keep supporting, believing, loving and encouraging us!!



    ("move on"? to where? to what? is there really anyplace in real life, or on the net, that is better than being here? has anyone that ever left ever dropped back by and suggested a "better place"??? i've never seen that in the four years i've been here.)

    :luvu:
     
  5. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    awwwwww Brother anAfrican ... Thank You ... :love:

    you've warmed my heart so ... :blush: ... gosh ... Thank You ... :grouphug:

    Thank You Thank You Thank You ... :luvv:

    did i say thank you ... ?? ... :rain:

    :heart:

    Destee
     
  6. jamesfrmphilly

    jamesfrmphilly going above and beyond PREMIUM MEMBER

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    i think i understand your feelings.
    you do provide valuable insights from time to time.
    people need that.

    i hope you will continue.
     
  7. truetothecause

    truetothecause Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Hotep Brother anAfrican!

    Thanks for listening and responding

    Here's a cyberhug for YOU :hug::toast:


    M.E.
    :hearts2:
     
  8. truetothecause

    truetothecause Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    sugar coated.....

    Greetings Destee and Thanks for Sharing!

    Your words truly come as no surprise. It sounds like the standard party line:
    "If you don't like it here, You can leave" seems to be the fall to line.

    Seems that's ALL you heard from what I've shared. Cool....


    The disappointment I feel has little to do with this site being anything I need it to be lol. It comes from a place much deeper than that cause I am much deeper than that.

    I'll leave my thoughts at that and Thank You for Sharing!

    M.E.
    :hearts2:
     
  9. truetothecause

    truetothecause Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Thanks Brother James!:toast::kiss:
    I shall continue to live one day at a time DO~ing what the Creator of WE directs....

    M.E.
    :hearts2:
     
  10. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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    Sister True ... i suppose my words could be considered "sugar coated" ... for i do mean them in the sweetest of ways.

    My response is standard, for i've always said this same thing. I've been very consistent about this Sister, and i mean it with my whole heart.

    You titled this thread ... My Primary Problem ... and i feel, any and all problems, should be avoided if possible. It doesn't matter if it is this community, or some other thing in one's life, causing problems. Problems are not a good thing. We as a people have way too many of them, and if we can situate our lives in such a manner, as to relieve ourselves of one or two ... for some we can do nothing about ... but if we can get rid of one or two or how ever many a Sister or Brother can ... they should do that. Quick, fast, and in a hurry. It does not matter what the problem is, even if that problem is me and/or this community.

    How could i encourage anyone to try and get rid of the problems in their life, so long as the problem wasn't me or mine? How could i do that, in good conscious? I will not. So Sister True, please know, i mean what i am saying and i live my own life this way as well, however standard it may be. If something is a problem for me, i try to get it out of my life, or get my life out of it.

    I don't mean to appear heartless, as though i do not care enough to dig down into the specifics of why you've determined being here is a problem. I do care, but unless it is an official complaint, something we can do something about ... you'll probably just have to put up with what's happening, put someone on ignore, maybe encourage the Family in your own sweet way to change, or leave. We have a lot of Members, that could potentially bring their own personalized complaints about this community, and we just don't have the resources to dig down deep in all of them ... so we don't do any.

    If it is a specific violation of the rules, presented according to the process ... Someone Has Broke a Rule ... we'll dig deep.

    But all the rest ... please Sister ... we just aint got it like that.

    I Love You Sister True ... i will always love you ... no matter where in the world you are! :grouphug:

    :heart:

    Destee
     
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