Black Spirituality Religion : Mud and pot are taken as simile for God and world during creation process

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by dattaswami1, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Mud and pot are taken as simile for God and world during creation process

    92) Mrudghatapakshayoranyonyaparihaaso jalaanayane .

    (The two parties supporting the mud and pot mock each other in the context of bringing water).

    The mud and pot are taken as simile for God and world during creation process. The party supporting the existence of separate pot is mocked by the other party since the first party is unable to bring the water with the pot from which the mud is withdrawn by the second party. The reverse mocking also takes place because the second party which believes in the only existence of the mud also cannot bring water with the help of the lump of mud.

    93) Agnitaapakanabandhashakterajnaanaat haasyau .

    (Both the parties should be mocked since both are ignorant about the binding energy that is introduced into the lump of mud while the pot is heated and the binding energy is responsible to bring water).

    Both the parties are not aware of one scientific point here. In the lump of mud the bond energy binding the mud particles is absent. It is introduced in to the pot, when the pot is heated in fire. The bond energy binding the mud particles in a specific design is responsible for bringing the water. This important point is not noticed by both the parties of ancient logic and the fight between them is to be mocked.

    94) Kaaranakaaryaakarshane paraparaajayah .

    (If you drag the binding energy towards cause, the effect fails. If you drag the binding energy to effect, the cause fails).


    If the binding energy is also taken as cause, the first party fails to bring water with the imaginary design of pot alone. If the binding energy is taken as the effect, which is separate from the lump of mud, the second party fails to bring water with the lump of mud.

    95) Uhyaanuhyabandhaabhaavaat na paryaaptam .

    (The simile is not complete in all aspects because the God is unimaginable and the world is imaginable. Moreover, the third factor, binding energy, does not apply to God).

    You are comparing the mud and pot to God and world in the process of creation. The simile is just correct in one aspect only, which is that the pot is produced from the mud. Apart from this aspect the simile is not capable in explaining the process of generation, which is unimaginable. The mud and pot are imaginable items and hence the process of generation is also imaginable. But here, God is unimaginable and the world is imaginable. The process of generation between unimaginable and imaginable items must be unimaginable because only a process of generation between two imaginable items can be imaginable. In the simile, the binding energy is a third factor, which does not exist in the case of God and world. The world is produced from the God without any association of another factor.
     
  2. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The work becomes different from energy due to the association of instrument

    The work becomes different from energy due to the association of instrument

    89) Dvaitamupakaranavashaat bhinnam tayoravyaktam .

    (The work becomes different from energy due to the association of instrument. The work differs from notable energy and notable instrument by being unnoticed).
    The above two versions are contradicting to each other. One says that energy and work are one and the same. The other says that energy and work are different. The conclusion of this contradiction must be given. We say that the work is basically the energy but it becomes different due to the association of instrument. The notable energy becomes un-notable work due to the association of instrument and hence the work can be neither identified as the notable work or notable instrument. The process of walking is work. It is different form the instrumental legs and also the causal energy. We can notice only energy and legs and the work, which is different from these two, cannot be noticed. The inert heat energy can be noticed by thermometer directly and the instrumental legs are directly noticed by the two eyes. But the process of walking as invisible work cannot be noticed directly.



    The work is un-notable, it is not taken as entity
    90) Astitu na kaarakamagrahanaat .

    (Since the work is un-notable, it is not taken as entity, but the work exists).


    Since the work is not noticed, being different from the notable energy and notable instrument, we say that the work is not the entity. The entity is always easily noted. However, this does not mean that we say that the work is non-existent. The work certainly exists, though it is not treated as notable entity.

    The awareness is the work

    91) Asti shakteravyaktakriyaa chit nadimandalamupakaranam.

    (The awareness certainly exists as invisible form of inert energy. Here the instrument is nervous system).

    The awareness is the work and the entity is the inert energy produced by the oxidation of food. The nervous system is the instrument. From the above analysis, the awareness exists, but being un-noticed, it is of secondary importance and does not have the primary importance of entity. Awareness as work is quite different from the inert energy as well as the nervous system. It is the invisible form of inert energy due to proportionate conversion and certainly is having existence.
     
  3. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The work must be different from inert energy

    The work must be different from inert energy
    86) Na jadashaktireva kriyaabhaavaapatteh .

    (We should not say that the work is simply the inert energy. If so, the new word, work, should not arise at all).

    We can say that work is a form of inert energy. But we should not say that there is no difference between inert energy and work. If there is no difference between inert energy and work, what is the necessity of generation of a new word, work? The work must be different from inert energy and therefore a new word, work, is created. If you say that there is no difference between inert energy and work, there should be no work at all except the inert energy.

    87) Ekatve na padadvayam na cha pruthagbhaavah .

    (If both are one, there should be no two words and both should not have separate existence).

    If work and energy are only one entity, there is no need of the generation of two separate words like work and energy. If both are one and the same, as soon as energy is produced the corresponding work also must have been generated simultaneously. There should not be two subsequent stages of energy and work.

    The consumption of energy and generation of work take place proportionately

    88) Samapramaanavyayajananaat vinopakaranam tayoh .

    (The consumption of energy and generation of work take place

    proportionately in equal quanta. The instrument is not involved in conversion since it is not consumed at all in generating the work).

    If both energy and work are different from each other, for the generation of every quantum of work there should not be corresponding disappearance of one quantum of energy in the body. For example, if one calorie of energy disappears, you have walked one mile. If you have walked two miles, two calories of energy disappear correspondingly. This means, only the energy is converted into work and not any other item like the instrument used in the work. By walking two miles the instrumental legs have not disappeared partially by two quanta like two calories. Hence, the instrument is not involved in the conversion in to work. Therefore, work is only another form of energy.
     
  4. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The illusion of the relative plane is only for us and not for God

    The illusion of the relative plane is only for us and not for God

    84) Bhraantaa vayam na sah paramaarthaanubhavaabhaavaat .

    (The illusion of the relative plane is only for us and not for God, due to lack of practical experience of the absolute of plane for us at any time).

    The human incarnation is always in the absolute plane and the relative plane never exists for Him because the illusion causing the existence of relative plane is never for God. Hence, there is no point of the existence of relative plane in the view of God at any time. Only we, the ordinary souls are affected by the illusion and experience the existence of the relative plane. Since we can only imagine about the absolute plane and can never practically experience it in reality, we will not believe the existence of absolute plane even in the view of human incarnation. Since, our practical experience is always confined to the relative plane, we also try to imagine the relative plane only even for the human incarnation. Hence, the basic reason for us not to believe the existence of absolute plane for human incarnation is the lack of practical experience for us regarding the absolute plane at any time.

    Even scholars can never cross the fundamental illusion of primordial energy

    85) Mulabhramaakaashaannaatitaah panditaa api .

    (Even the scholars can never cross the fundamental illusion created in the case of primordial energy, which is the space).

    Even the scholars and scientists cannot cross the original illusion created in the space or Mula Maya. No body can cross the spatial dimensions and imagine anything beyond the space. The space or primordial energy is realized as work but its worker being existing separately other than the space (or beyond the space) could not be imagined by any scientist or scholar. The worker of primordial energy (work), God, can never even be realized and experiencing Him is absolutely impossible. A scientist or scholar can cross Maya and Maha Maya through realization of the worker, though crossing Maya and Maha Maya cannot be experienced. You can cross Maya and Maha Maya in realization at least, though not in experience. But you cannot cross Mula Maya in realization as well as in experience because the worker of Mula Maya (God) is not even realized. When some thing is not realized there is no point of experiencing that. Experience is a subsequent of realization.
     
  5. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Our view can never practically becomes God’s view

    Our view can never practically becomes God’s view

    82) Tasyadruguchyate na gamyate rajamahishivat .

    (God’s view is only explained by us and not practically attained similar to the aspect of king to queen).

    Our view regarding us and the rest of world cannot exist in the absolute plane. We can just imagine the position of the absolute plane but we cannot have the practical existence in the absolute plane. When we talk about the absolute plane, it does not mean that we have actually reached the absolute plane. We are only imagining the position of absolute plane, which is practically impossible to attain for us. We can say that world is unreal in God’s view. This does not mean that our view becomes practically God’s view and that the world becomes unreal for us. If you say that the king can shout at the queen, it does not mean that you can shout at the queen.

    Once the absolute plane is mentioned, the relative plane does not exist

    83) Manushyopaadhauvapi na dashaadvayavirodhah .

    (Even in the case of human incarnation of God, the two planes do not co-exist to contradict each other).

    When God enters the medium of a human form, such human incarnation is an ordinary human being externally but is God internally. If you cannot recognize Him internally, you will speak relative plane only regarding the world in His view. If you recognize Him as God internally, you will speak the absolute plane regarding the world in His view. Once the absolute plane is mentioned, the relative plane does not exist. If you are not recognizing Him as God, even though He is in absolute plane, you will misunderstand Him in the relative plane only. Hence, even in His case, the two planes do not co-exist and contradict each other. If you have realized Him as God, there is no relative plane in His view since the relative plane cannot co-exist with the absolute plane. If you have not realized Him as God due to your ignorance based on ego and jealousy, even then, actually the absolute plane alone is existing in His view and not the relative plane. Any way, in your ignorance also, only the relative plane is existing as per your view regarding the world in His view and thus here also, there are no two planes.
     
  6. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The primordial energy is called as Mula Maya or Mula Prakruti

    The primordial energy is called as Mula Maya or Mula Prakruti

    77) Mulaakaasharupatrayam mahaamaayaa .

    (The root space appears in three forms and these three forms are called as Maha Maya).

    The primordial energy is called as Mula Maya or Mula Prakruti, which is in the form of space. When this is condensed, it appears in the form of light etc. When this is further condensed, it appears in the form of matter through illusion as explained above. When the primordial energy or its form works in a special technology, such work is called as awareness. Therefore, awareness as work form, light etc., as condensed form and matter as intensively condensed form are the three forms of primordial energy. These three forms are called as Maha Maya.

    The forms of Maha Maya together constitute Maya

    78) Mahaamaayaakaaryagunavarnarupaani maayaa .

    (The forms of Maha Maya are quality, color and shape, which together constitute Maya).

    The forms of Maha Maya constituting awareness, condensed light etc., and most condensed matter are quality, color and shape respectively. These three forms of Maha Maya are called together as Maya. A quality is just a specific design of awareness. A color is just a specific frequency of light. A shape is just a specific design of matter.

    The cause is absolute plane and its effect is relative plane

    79) Dve dashe pruthagvaachye .

    (The absolute and relative planes are completely separate).

    The cause is absolute plane and its effect is relative plane. Gold is the cause and chain is its effect. The lump of gold has no shape but its effect, the chain, has a specific shape. When you are talking about the beauty of the shape of the chain, the quantity or quality of gold is not touched. When you talk about the quality and quantity of gold, you should not talk about the beauty of the design of chain. The former is absolute plane and latter is relative plane. When you are in one plane, you should not bring the other plane and get confused.

    80) Pruthakkrutadashaadvayavaadino guravah .

    (The spiritual preachers give commentaries standing in one of these two planes separately).

    The three great spiritual preachers i.e., Shankara, Ramanuja and Madhva gave commentaries standing in one of these two planes separately. Shankara stood in absolute plane and gave His commentary. Ramanuja and Madhva stood in relative plane and gave their commentaries. You cannot mix their commentaries and get confusion due to contradiction. The two planes contradict each other and therefore the corresponding commentaries also contradict each other. You should not compare these commentaries and create contradiction between commentaries.

    World is unreal for God


    81) Sannastasyaasajjagat .

    (The world is real for us, the human beings, where as, the same world is unreal for God).

    God is the cause and the world is effect. We, the human beings, are also part of the world only. God is in absolute plane and the world is in the relative plane. We and the rest of the world stand in the relative plane only. Therefore, we and the rest of the world are true to each other. God should not be referred in the relative plane. If we go to the absolute plane, we along with the rest of the world become unreal for God. The view of God is confined to absolute plane and cannot be referred to our view. Similarly, our view is confined to relative plane and should not be referred to the view of God.
     
  7. Destee

    Destee destee.com STAFF

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  8. Moorfius

    Moorfius Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Distortions are not ment to Understand

    Hotep

    Why is it at all nessary to change anything Natural to something Un-Natural in the first place? What is the motivation or intent except to confuse, trick, fool, hoodwink, bamboozel and altimatly to mis-lead and distroy those who have lost knowledge of "Self" through this "Indoctrination Process".

    Nothing is soo confuse-ing as something that is Fabricated by men and women who take something pure and corrupt it and then give it back to the author as in "Stolen Legacy"...now returned as a thing poluted and spoiled.

    Remember: The truth sets you "Free"...and not give you a headach try-ing to understand that you have been freed by the pure truth.

    Question: Why would any one other than a oppressed person be concerned with the oppressed? Why would a wolf dress in sheeps clothing? And know that "Evil and Wickednes" never gives up and never quits and exploits ignorance and weaknes in order to survive and even exist in the first place.

    Are we required to "Think"? Or are we just expected to listen and to except words that don't make any sence at all. Don't forget to bring your asprin.

    Black Man and Black Woman...when the student is "Ready"...the "Master" will appear. We are instructed by our own "Origenal-Black" so-called Afrikan "Ancestors" to "Know Your Self"...First!!! Then every thing that don't make sence will let you know that it is false, evil, wicket and made to deceive those who don't know them selves and there for ignorantly looking for some one or any one who don't share the same ancestory and has "NO" relation to you or the Truth!

    Ase`


    Warning: Coruption...always, always and always goes down hill !
     
  9. dattaswami1

    dattaswami1 Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Everybody aspires the highest fruit through the easiest way. The easiest way is the path of knowledge, which does not require any sacrifice. The highest fruit is to become the very Lord right now from this moment onwards. They like the preacher to say that they should just come out of their house to receive a heap of infinite treasure lying down before the doors. Anybody will be happiest to receive the news that, he has become eligible to join the post of district collector in whatever stage of his study to the I.A.S. Examination he is present. The post is offered to the fresh student who just joined the I.A.S. Course and also to the student who passed the I.A.S. Examination. Both are equally eligible now itself to join the same post. If the preacher says that already both have joined the post and that they have forgotten this truth, now all the effort is only to recognize that they are the district collectors. This gives the idea that there is no need of any future effort. This is the mis-interpreted philosophy of monoism (Advaita) of Sankara.

    Everybody is very much attracted to this path. The influence of this path is so much that nobody is coming out of this illusion. It is so sweet that they are unable to leave this state. The basic misconcept is to think that the self is the superself. Self is any living being in this world. Super self is the Lord. They just find one common point i.e., the pure awareness (Chit) exists in both. The Prime Minister and his peon have several common points like pure awareness, similar form of external human body etc. Both eat and sleep similarly. Both are married and both have children. Because of these common points can you treat the Prime Minister and His peon as one and the same? Based on one common point i.e., pure awareness, how can you say that self is superself? Veda says that by the order of the Lord, the Sun is shining. In summer due to sunstroke a human being is killed. Let the Advaita scholar stand against the sunstroke and order the Sun not to kill him.

    When the disciples of Sankara thought that they are also the Lord, Sankara swallowed the molten lead and asked the disciples to do the same. Then they fell on the feet of Sankara. Then Sankara told "Shivah Kevaloham", which means that only He is Shiva. The word Kevala (only) is important here. Sankara while taking bath in the ocean at Puri told "Oh! Lord! Though the qualitative identity is in between us, the quantitative difference exists. The water is common in both the sea and the wave like the pure awareness in the soul and super soul. But the quantitative difference exists and one should not forget that the entire wave is in the sea but the entire sea is not in the wave". This is stated as a message for the sake of ordinary soul. These Advaita Scholars filter all the differentiating points and finally get the common point filtered down into the beaker as the filtrate. The differentiating points are the residue on the filter paper and the filtered common point is in the downward beaker. They see only the beaker but not the filter paper. Therefore, the whole spiritual path is twisted and confused almost all the human beings.

    Seeing this situation the same Sankara came as Ramanuja and Madhva and clearly differentiated the superself from the self. Some devotees have come out of this illusion but several people are still lingering there only due to their unreasonable and unimaginable ambition for the fruit. Unless this basic concept is realized, all the stages of the spiritual effort cannot be healthy. The poison injected in the foundation has spread all over the upstairs of the construction. Your question has already assumed that self is super self. You have no doubt about that basic concept. Nobody likes to touch that basic concept. If that basic concept is analysed the entire castle of their ambition will collapse. They cannot tolerate to loose the highest fruit, which was captured by them by the easiest way of self-realization. Now for such self-realization, you are asking whether the meditation or the study of scriptures is the path. When the goal itself is absent what is the use of the path? It is something like asking whether one should pass eighth standard or ninth standard to become the district collector. Neither of these two standards can give you the post. By passing those two standards one can get the post of a peon. One has to pass the I.A.S. Examination for which he is eligible after passing degree examination, which is far from both those standards. These advaita scholars argue that the peon is the collector. They do not accept the existence of any higher post other than the peon.

    The reason for this basic misunderstanding is the word "Brahman". As per Sanskrit grammar this word comes from the root "Bruhi-Vruddhau", which means that the root meaning of this word is greatness. Anything that is great can be called as Brahman. The soul is the most precious and greatest item of the creation and is called as Para Prakruti, which means the greatest of all the created items. The soul is included as a part of the creation (Prakruti) and is called as Para Prakruti as said in Gita (Prakritim Viddhi me paraam….). It is not Creator. If it is Creator it cannot be called as Prakruti. It is only the modification of food during evolution as said in Veda (Annat Purushah…). The same inert energy called as electro magnetic radiation working through a special unknown technology is life. The materials of the technology are known and the working inert energy is also known. But the special technology in which it works is not known and therefore, life energy is not synthesized so far. Only God knows that technology.
     
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