Black People : Mis-Giving -- The Truth Behind Thanksgiving

Fine1952

Happy Winter Solstice
MEMBER
Sep 27, 2005
7,837
2,480
The image falsely shows pilgrims, formerly migrated from Holland before being banished from England as 'purifiers' (ie. That's where the name Pilgrim came from) who protested against Catholism.
Misgiving.jpg


"...Thanksgivng Day literally is a holiday celebrating the beginnings of the almost total extermination of an entire race of people, commonly called "Indians" and the enslavement, continued oppression and genocide of the Afrikan, by European settlers...Thanksgiving Day is indeed a celebration of horrors and cannabilism..."

Source: "Afrikan People and European Holidays: Mental Genocide" by Dr. Ishakamusa Barashango
(04/27/1938-01/14/2004)





Source:

"Afrikan People and European Holidays"
Dr. Ishakamusa Barashango
(04/27/1938-01/14/2004)


 

Lynott

Active Member
MEMBER
Oct 4, 2016
36
8
The image falsely shows pilgrims, formerly migrated from Holland before being banished from England as 'purifiers' (ie. That's where the name Pilgrim came from) who protested against Catholism.
No, they were English protestants. But England had a king deciding what everyone had to believe in, the Anglican church aka the Church of England. So they went to the Dutch Republic, often referred to as Holland, which had invented freedom religion and therefore became independent of the king of Spain, at the expense of an 80-year war. But these Puritans didn't like life in the Dutch Republic, because it wasn't freedom of religion they liked. They experienced the Dutch Republic as too free, having a bad influence on their kids. So they left the city of Leiden in Holland to get on board of the Mayflower in England and head for the new world to start puritan settlements there without beeing exposed to other religions and ideas.

Indeed, Native American ideas may be partly responsible for our democratic institutionz. We have seen how Native ideas of liberty, fraternity, and equality found their way to Europe to influence social philosopherz such as Thomas More, Locke, Montaigne, Montesquieu, and Rousseau. These European thinkerz then influenced Americanz such as Franklin, Jefferson, and Madison. In recent yearz historianz have debated whether their ideas may also have influenced our democracy more directly. Through 150 yearz of colonial contact, the Iroquois League stood before the colonies as an object lesson in how to govern a large domain democratically. The termz used by Lt. Gov. Colden find an echo in our Declaration of Independence fifty yearz later.
Sounds lovely, but it's very unlikely. Contrary to popular belief, the Declaration of Independence wasn't very new, to be more precise, it's central idea's were 195 years old and already written in the Dutch Declaration of Independence of 1581.

Thomas More was already dead before the first settlers in North-America (where do you get those sources?), Locke wrote his important work in the Netherlands, just like many philosophers of the enlightment like Descartes, Voltaire, Erasmus, Spinoza worked there because of the freedom of speech, or had their books printed there because of the freedom of print and press. Many others visited to find out about life in that prosperous republic. So I'm afraid the American DoI didn't need any native American wisdom.

It might explain why the Native Americans got along quite well with the Dutch settlers in New Netherland (today's New York mainly), especially at first. The Dutch were just traders, not rulers, and the settlement was modelled after the Dutch Republic. The Native Americans liked to trade too and had a lot of fur on offer for for example metal tools, it wasn't without troubles throughout the whole time, but they respected eachother for fair deals and keeping their word. With freedom of religion and speech, citizenship, equality and egalitarianism, women were also very free in the Dutch Republic to the amazement or disgust of foreign visitors, so they had that in common. It was a very multicultural and multiracial settlement with all kinds of Europeans, Asians, Native Americans and Africans. The first blacks in North America were most likely free because the Dutch brought them very early and considered slavery unchristian until 1636. Officially at least, but New Netherland was run by the WIC, a semi military trade enterprise to take the war with mainly Spain and Portugal at that time to the seas and cut off the money to finance the war against the Dutch Republic, so the settlement and all the WIC's ships were official and government controlled. If a Dutch ship would capture a Spanish or Portuguese ship they were allowed to take it's cargo, but the slaves had to be set free and would be de iure free when setting foot on Dutch soil. Because of the high death rate among sailors and because you couldn't just leave people on some unknown shore to die, a lot of them ended up beeing employed by the WIC. There are records showing blacks in New Netherland negotiating wages, marrying in Church and owning farms.

So it's the Dutch legacy that shaped the DoI, either through the remains of New Netherland, or through the philosophers of the enlightment, or just by translation of the Dutch declaration of independence. That's of course not the story the WASP's tell you, the victors write history and the Dutch were forced out by the English. The Dutch took the wrong moral turn by themselves, urged by the aggression of all the kings from Spain to England that wanted to end the Republic for obvious reasons, but not forced. Idealism and rightiousness had faded with incredible wealth and the grim realities oversees. They became a slave trading colonial power only slightly better than the English later on and in the 19th century they were even behind on the English when it came to abolition.

But still, makes you wonder what could have been if it wasn't the English but the Dutch who ended up shaping North-America. Don't know about slavery, but the Native Americans would have been better of because the Dutch held them in high esteem and didn't have this desire to rule as much land as possible. It certainly wouldn't have become such a prudish country and 200 years were waisted on English feudal thinking and class mentality, from which it's only a very small step to racism.
 

ogoun

Well-Known Member
MEMBER
Jun 14, 2018
988
361

What was American democracy 'fashioned' on?
 

Fine1952

Happy Winter Solstice
MEMBER
Sep 27, 2005
7,837
2,480
Eye know who and what these people were because Eye read and study. The word Dutch is synonymous with Jews.

Eye have always thought it laughable when someone jumps into a topic Eye have created with no concrete substance or scholarship to stand upon, yet with the full intent to discredit, LOL. Therefore, please don't start asking me questions, especially about Amerikkkan democracy. Do your research. Eye know what Eye am talking about and Eye stand behind the scholarship of people like:

JA Rogers
Dr. Ishakamusa Barashango
M/Bwebe Ishangi

Better yet create your own topic and argue with yourself!


No, they were English protestants. But England had a king deciding what everyone had to believe in, the Anglican church aka the Church of England. So they went to the Dutch Republic, often referred to as Holland, which had invented freedom religion and therefore became independent of the king of Spain, at the expense of an 80-year war. But these Puritans didn't like life in the Dutch Republic, because it wasn't freedom of religion they liked. They experienced the Dutch Republic as too free, having a bad influence on their kids. So they left the city of Leiden in Holland to get on board of the Mayflower in England and head for the new world to start puritan settlements there without beeing exposed to other religions and ideas.

Sounds lovely, but it's very unlikely. Contrary to popular belief, the Declaration of Independence wasn't very new, to be more precise, it's central idea's were 195 years old and already written in the Dutch Declaration of Independence of 1581.

Thomas More was already dead before the first settlers in North-America (where do you get those sources?), Locke wrote his important work in the Netherlands, just like many philosophers of the enlightment like Descartes, Voltaire, Erasmus, Spinoza worked there because of the freedom of speech, or had their books printed there because of the freedom of print and press. Many others visited to find out about life in that prosperous republic. So I'm afraid the American DoI didn't need any native American wisdom.

It might explain why the Native Americans got along quite well with the Dutch settlers in New Netherland (today's New York mainly), especially at first. The Dutch were just traders, not rulers, and the settlement was modelled after the Dutch Republic. The Native Americans liked to trade too and had a lot of fur on offer for for example metal tools, it wasn't without troubles throughout the whole time, but they respected eachother for fair deals and keeping their word. With freedom of religion and speech, citizenship, equality and egalitarianism, women were also very free in the Dutch Republic to the amazement or disgust of foreign visitors, so they had that in common. It was a very multicultural and multiracial settlement with all kinds of Europeans, Asians, Native Americans and Africans. The first blacks in North America were most likely free because the Dutch brought them very early and considered slavery unchristian until 1636. Officially at least, but New Netherland was run by the WIC, a semi military trade enterprise to take the war with mainly Spain and Portugal at that time to the seas and cut off the money to finance the war against the Dutch Republic, so the settlement and all the WIC's ships were official and government controlled. If a Dutch ship would capture a Spanish or Portuguese ship they were allowed to take it's cargo, but the slaves had to be set free and would be de iure free when setting foot on Dutch soil. Because of the high death rate among sailors and because you couldn't just leave people on some unknown shore to die, a lot of them ended up beeing employed by the WIC. There are records showing blacks in New Netherland negotiating wages, marrying in Church and owning farms.

So it's the Dutch legacy that shaped the DoI, either through the remains of New Netherland, or through the philosophers of the enlightment, or just by translation of the Dutch declaration of independence. That's of course not the story the WASP's tell you, the victors write history and the Dutch were forced out by the English. The Dutch took the wrong moral turn by themselves, urged by the aggression of all the kings from Spain to England that wanted to end the Republic for obvious reasons, but not forced. Idealism and rightiousness had faded with incredible wealth and the grim realities oversees. They became a slave trading colonial power only slightly better than the English later on and in the 19th century they were even behind on the English when it came to abolition.

But still, makes you wonder what could have been if it wasn't the English but the Dutch who ended up shaping North-America. Don't know about slavery, but the Native Americans would have been better of because the Dutch held them in high esteem and didn't have this desire to rule as much land as possible. It certainly wouldn't have become such a prudish country and 200 years were waisted on English feudal thinking and class mentality, from which it's only a very small step to racism.
 

Fine1952

Happy Winter Solstice
MEMBER
Sep 27, 2005
7,837
2,480
"...every year on Thanksgiving Day, Americans in a strange and gluttonous ritual, overstuff themselves with turkey and other delicacies, then proceed to recline in a hypnotic trance to watch the football game. Some scholars believe that this custom of watching the football game on Thanksgiving Day, is in essence an eerie subconscious recollection of the grotesque sport engaged in by the Pilgrim Fathers as they tore suckling babies from the breasts of their mothers, hacked them to pieces, chopped off the heads of their parents and kicked them about the street..."

Source: "Afrikan People and European Holidays: A Mental Genocide" Book One by Dr. Ishahamusa Barashango

Afrikan People and European Holidays.png
 

Lynott

Active Member
MEMBER
Oct 4, 2016
36
8
That's about what I said. I'm not claiming there was never any Dutchman or any of the 20.000 Dutch ships was ever involved in the slavetrade before 1636 and moral corruption doesn't happen overnight. But the Dutch trading post and settlements in North America were run by the WIC, which was a state controlled and it's main private funder was an abolitionist (Usselincx) and policy was not to get involved in the slave trade. When Recife in Brazil was captured from the Portuguese, there were already slaves on the sugar plantations of the Portuguese and the governor, Johan Maurits, wrote to WIC board in Amsterdam urging them to give up on their principles because he 'couldn't run this colony without slaves', and the board conceded helped by theologians who had came up with the theory that blacks were descendents of Cham, who were cursed to slavery in Genesis 9.

So they sailed out to capture Elmina on the gold coast (Ghana) from the Portuguese. From that moment, 1637, they (as in both the WIC and the Dutch state), didn't hold back at all and even became the biggest Atlantic slavetraders for a couple of decades until they were outcompeted by the English because these managed to keep more slaves alive on the ships. In the Netherlands itself everybody stayed free and most people had no involvement with what happened far away at all, so it was easy to look to other way and be a hypocrite. But that's all well after the establishment of New Netherland and New Amsterdam in North-America, which didn't have plantations so there would not even be the desire for slaves to test their ethics of that time.

What was American democracy 'fashioned' on?
I'm not contesting the democratic tradition of the Iroquoi, I just don't believe it's very likely the founding fathers would be open minded enough to study their tradition thoroughly (through talks it would have to be), instead of taking the easy way and just look at a document a more closely related culture had produced almost 200 years before that only needed a translation and a touch up, had proven to be extremely successful, had gained in philosophical foundation and had left it's marks in New York.

The DoI isn't really as much about democracy, but about republicanism, which is of course a good foundation but certainly not the finished product. On American democracy, it seems to me the founding father should have listened much better to the Iroquoi because it never really came off. The Dutch should have too, because allthough they had all kinds of democratic structures since at least the 11th century, real democray only happened in the early 20th century.
 

Lynott

Active Member
MEMBER
Oct 4, 2016
36
8
Eye know who and what these people were because Eye read and study. The word Dutch is synonymous with Jews.
Study harder. You were wrong about the national origin of the Pilgrim fathers, wrong about Catholicism/Anglicanism, wrong about Thomas More and wrong about the meaning of 'synonymous'.

Eye have always thought it laughable when someone jumps into a topic Eye have created with no concrete substance or scholarship to stand upon, yet with the full intent to discredit, LOL.
I just wanted to correct some obvious and some less obvious mistakes.

Therefore, please don't start asking me questions, especially about Amerikkkan democracy.
Why should I? I don't mind mistakes, but if you clearly don't want to get your facts right you're not the kind to learn from.

Do your research. Eye know what Eye am talking about and Eye stand behind the scholarship of people like:

JA Rogers
Dr. Ishakamusa Barashango
M/Bwebe Ishangi

Better yet create your own topic and argue with yourself!
You naming them is not really a recommendation anymore.
 

Consciousness Raising Online!

Latest profile posts

I'll be honest. I like black culture forums, so I've signed up for this one, BX, and Lipstick Alley. I won't post too often, only on things that I'm really interested in. Nice to meet you. :)
Ms Drea wrote on butterfly#1's profile.
Hi Sister,
Miss you so much I hope all is well with you and yours!!
Love and Blessings!! :heart: :heart:
Implementation and Sustainment
You can skip rocks across water but if you're not building yourself up rock solid, you'll drown under pressure.
11-5-19✍
Fireman wrote on Queenie's profile.
Hi, Queenie. Love your posts. Even though I don't you, you must be some kind of remarkable and lovely person. Lets keep in touch.
Top