Metu Neter - Vols I - II - III : Metu Neter and todays Nubians?

emanuel goodman

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2006
social worker
The problem

omowalejabali said:

I dont intend to debate any points I raised here. Folks can deny, refute, or do as they please. One thing for sure, I have read very thoroughly many posts here by so-called "metu neter" proponents which are filled with so many holes that it is evident to me what happened to "Black people" on a SPIRITUAL level long before the triangular trade.

I have issue with some of brother Music Producer's claims and I think that even though he asserts to speak the true "Word of God" there a points which indicate that he does not quite have a grasp on how similar the "Bible" or "enuma Elish" were to the Heliopolitan Rescension but he is much closer than those who have bought into the theology which emerged from Thebes.

And to further highlight an observation.....interestingly it is an older Black nationalist community which seems to refer as "Khemetic" and many of these same individuals run counter to "Hip Hop culture" which COMMONLY refers as "Nubian".......
The problem is that sprituality is not different than anything else it is in the eye of the beholder. I agree with brother nibs. I never looked at any literature as the one and only interpretations of my progressive study. one cannot get caught up into one way of teaching or your growth is stunted at that point. MY individual usage of the word nubians gives me a better and more personal connection with our ancestors. The new beings or nu bians are the first cut of our ancestors after the mixing of the blood all over the planet. Our ancestors (olmecs) and other ancient tribes were considered new borns or nuwbuns to the planet. This word usage is associated with ANU (which just means i once knew) of the eluma ish as Anubians or anubuwns the first born of the planet that mixed in with the tahites the (pygimes) or
decendants of the planet. with the first creation of the la lu almelu "The slaves" to mine goal on this planet for sirrus a because it lost it's atmosphere during war with the draco or dragons. MY overstanding is the entire planet is our stomping ground not just khem it or africa from the roman (afruqua) means to seperate. what do you think brother?


Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2006

you have raised excellent points, lets try to address them and clarify the isssue.

(omowalejabali) - To even assert that "it was practiced by ancient Nubians" is somewhat dishonest

completely valid point. i'm using the language of others, not my own. in this thread, music producer questioned the claim that metu neter was practiced by nubians in africa today. i believe this is the original quote he was referencing:
The Ausar Auset Society is a Pan African Religious organization founded in 1973. As Legend would have it, Ra Un Nefer Amen developed a congenial relationship with Oba Adefunmi and began to consult the Ifa Oracle through the Oba for the purpose of organizing the spiritual experiences and messages he was clearly receiving from the Spiritual realm. Those consultations shaped some early organizational structure and comparative religious studies that resulted in the Society. Again, as legend would have it, a small group of Orisa priests (Ol'Orisa) were beseeched by Kemetic Sheps (Ancestors) to assist Amen in the establishment of what most consider the only legitimate revival of Egyptian spirituality outside of the relatively underground Nubian community that survives in North Africa. They helped develop and train the core group of original Society priests. Prior to this tradition, some say that Ra Un Nefer Amen was the former head of the Rosicrucian Anthroposophical League.

the term "nubian" in this context arises from that description; and is basically used as a generic term for african there.
there is no reason to think that these teachings were universal within kemet, and were also practiced in nubia.
we know that the nubians shared a few gods with kemet but had their own practices and understandings of things.
we know that across kemet, the various priesthoods across various cities had their own particular interpretations; favored particular cosmogenies and gods. we can see where the characters in the creation stories and myths change and understand how this reflects different political struggles; as well as symbolic shifts in thought...etc.

here we don't disagree.

muata ashby has books dedicated to various schools of philosophy, focusing on different gods and combinations of god. thus the variance is better reflected there. if you look at the "legend" cited above about the spirits that helped with the medu is actually pretty clear that ra's work is only a continuation of one group and not necessarily universal across kemet.

(omowalejabali) - "Nubians" were depicted in "Egyptian" art as "Negroes". Thus it is totally erroneous today to consider "Nubians" as "Khemetic".

actually many of the depictions showed nubians in the exact same dress and postures as kemetians; indicating the greater connection. the depictions varied; but the earliest portrayed the two as virtually identical.

(omowalejabali) - Ironically, claims that the "Nommo" represent "Neteru" or that the "Dogon" were practiced/or continue to practice "medu neter" or speak the "Mother Tongue" is a total fabrication and complete FALLACY.

For one, if the knowledge was actually retained by a "secret society" how could it then be published by a member of the ROSICRUCIAN Order


actually, metu neter books, and r.u.n.a.'s teachings are seen as a revival of ancient traditions that he undertook with guidance. in contrast, the underground practitioners of nile valley high culture are seen as a continuation of the original traditions of a people that were once exiled. so the claims attributed to the one group are not related to the specific teachings of r.u.n.a.

(omowalejabali) - I am not merely suggesting "the metu neter gets the symbolism wrong" but there is another explanation written within the written "metu neter" itself.

if you wish to touch specifically on which of the teachings in the metu neter are incorrect, then do so. currently you are arguing politics. let's go over what is and isn't in the metu neter:

a mystery god (spook):

our friend the music producer is looking for a mystery god to worship. unfortunately for him there is no mystery god in the metu neter. god did not create the universe to watch it and pass judgement. god has created the universe to experience, and thus exists within the creation. it is up for man to connect with and cultivate the divine consciousness within; and establish divine order below, on earth.


there are no prophets chosen by a mystery god, man can become aware of divine consciousness and thus exist in harmony with divine order. the "ausar man" has reached this level of consciousness, realized his own divine potential and thus controls his own future.


life is not a test, it is an opportunity to experience. the "ausar man" has the ability to choose to continue experiencing or to return to a higher mode of existence.


realizing these higher modes of consciousness brings man back in tune with nature, and facilitates higher mental and psychic abilities including divination/prophecy...communicating with one's ancestors...etc.


unlike the pert em heru and older coffin and pyramid texts; the metu neter books consider immortality as the survival of one's identity across incarnations. even with that more limited definition, the metu neter does not focus on this principle and takes reincarnations almost for granted.
in contrast, the general theme of the pert em heru...etc seems to be attaining immortality by preventing future human incarnations, and allowing one's spirit (identity) and soul to move on to a more divine "god-like" existence without being emcumbered with a physical incarnation.

imho this is a significant break in doctrine, as the metu neter is more focused on establishing divine order below, and while it recognizes a path back to divinity or higher forms of existence...that is not the focus.

that is my summary of the conclusions/interpretations that the metu neter teaches...

so, terms of doctrine...what would you say the metu neter is getting wrong?

more specifically, let's return to this:
(omowalejabali) - For one, if the knowledge was actually retained by a "secret society" how could it then be published by a member of the ROSICRUCIAN Order

what are you implying with that? are you suggesting that the doctrine of ra un nefer amen is actually some false european doctrine rebadged with kemetian characters? why the focus on "rosicrucian order"?


Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2005

My brother, you seem to thrive on a lot of conjecture about historical matters, as well as some emotionalism about the former affiliations of Ra Un Nefer Amen and perhaps have had some brushes with the Ausar Auset Society in the past.

For one, let me start off by saying I'm a serious hip-hop head, and have been since I was 13 years old. My father used to play Tribe, Black Sheep and Digable Planets in the house and the car, and so I got to be very familiar with the "Nubians" of hip-hop. My first Afrocentric book was "Before the Mayflower" by Lerone Bennett, where I learned about the marvelous cities of Nubia, the Kentakes of Kush, the Napatan Dynasty and the Tekhenw of Meroe.

It is a serious insult to at least my sensibilities to generalize the members of the Ausar Auset Society as "older Nationalist heads" without any awareness of the Nubian heritage of the Kamitic people. Furthermore, it's tactless in that you've presented no tangible evidence other than a political schism which, as you claim, resulted in the priority of Amen-Ra over Ptah, in an attempt to consolidate Ra Un Nefer Amen into a "side" of a battle which in truth is happening only in your head.

Let's examine the *actual comments* of Amen on these issues before we even get started.

"Who was considered the "Grand Architect"?

Any resposes that indicate other than "Ptah" prior to the second dynasty I would like exact reference in the Pyramid Texts, Papyrus of Ani or other related SACRED TEXTS.

Sorry...."Metu Neter" volumes 1 and 2 dont meet this criteria..

The problem with this statement is that Ra Un Nefer Amen never makes Ptah anything other than the Grand Architect of the Universe. His intent, in Metu Neter vol 2 was not to marginalize the philosophic breadth of the Ptahite cosmogony, but rather to contrast its more hoary application against the theology of Memphis, which, as he states on p. 39 of that book, was conceived

"...712-698 B.C....(The Memphite priests) likened the process (of differentiation in the undifferentiated energy/matter) to the fashioning of crafts that comprised the dominant occupation of their city. As a fashioner, the Supreme Being was called Ptah. The cosmogony focuses essentially on the consciousness/omniscience (Saia, Sia) and will (Hu, the tongue, faculty of utterance) of God. We must appreciate the chooice of Hu, the tongue, as opposed to the word. The Kamitic sages were very keen on the fact that at this stage of reality there is absolute silence...The difference between the treatment of Ptah here and in the Theban cosmogony is that while in the Memphite, Ptah represents the Supreme Being itself, in the Theban it is one of the three fundamental attributes of the Supreme BEING. We must make note of the fact that in claiming that Ptah created Atum, the priests of Ptah went a little overboard, as the immaterial consciousness (Atem) is by nature uncreated and eternal."-p. 39

Those of Amen's statements that I emphasized demonstrate that, his critique notwithstanding, he yet sympathizes with a metaphysical concept, and thus at least the milieu in which the Memphite priests posited Ptah in the role of the Supreme Being, if not with their specific arbitration.

Notice that, at no point does Amen outstrip Ptah of the prerogatives of the creator, or specifically of the Fashioner of things, though he had ample opportunity to do so in the opening sentences of this paragraph, specifically in his handling of the "fashioner crafts" whose industry apparently inspired these priests; i.e., had he intended to make their attribution of the creative process to Ptah baseless, he could have easily done so here. He also situates the origin of the Ptahite cosmology with which he has qualms WELL AFTER the period in debate, proving that his arguments have nothing to do with your conspiratorial paradigm.

But, there is more to the "Ptah Problem" than even the misconstruction of these statements, for in fact, Ra Un Nefer Amen incorporates Ptah into his *own* cosmogony, which he regards as original, in Vol. I of Metu Neter:

"The Kamitic term for "destiny" is "Skher," and for plan is "Sekher," which are clearly etymologically related to "Seker." No two things can occupy the same place at the same time. Divine law, therefore, guarantees all things their day in the sun. Our coming into being, and the unfolding of all events in our life are controlled by the spiritual forces (Ptah) at the Seker level for the sake of maintaining order in the world."-p.222

Here, Amen has done something of paramount importance to this discussion. He has positively placed Ptah at the helm of the creation of the world. By attributing to Ptah the spiritual forces which deal with the unfoldment of things in the world, and this, considered along with his earlier exposition on the meaning of the Kamitic term "Hu," as the "faculty of utterance"; in other words, it is novel from the above 3 spheres (Amen, Ausar and Tehuti) in that it is the domain of Words of Power, which I'm sure you realize as the key to the High Initiation of which you made mention in a later post.

In so doing, he has made Ptah a "special consideration" of that specific attribute of the Seker sphere, which in "itself" is not ultimately reducible to mere fashioning of forms, because this faculty is necessarily appended to a sphere of Being that transcends even the need *to* manifest. In Amen's system, all other deities, even those of the Ba, Khu, and Shekhem divisions of the spirit, are agencies of earthly life, and in their case, the proper ordering and administration of earthly life by the metaphysical laws of Amen which, necessarily, transcend the need for Amen's manifestation into the world in the first place. This becomes important when we examine the metaphorein of Orisa-Nla and of Olodumare later in the post.

In other words, he (Amen) is actually considering the No-Thingness which mandates the Creative Faculty.

Now, as to any Pyramid Text which gives Ptah a priority over Atum, my person is unfamiliar with these. Everything I've seen has placed Atum as the progenitor of Shu and Tefnut.

Interesting. Several statements here are the reason for my exact departure from the "Metu Neter" as written specifically concerning the reference or lack thereof concerning the "Aten".

The "Aten" was recognized as supreme deity even going back to Hatshepsut. When "Amen" or "Amun" was merely a LOCAL "God", long before the period of Amenhotep IV's reign.

I suggest reading the exact Liturgical reference's of Amenhotep III's period from which Akhenaten was initiated despiteclaims that he was never an initiate.

I don't recall the Shekhem Ur Shekhem saying that so-called "Atenism" was innovated by Akhenaten, or that he was not "initiated" into the worship of Aten. However, I beg the following question: at what point is Aten the "Supreme Being" in Memphis at the time of Hatshepsut's rule? What specific stele or relief, or hymn makes Aten preside over all the others?

As you stated..."ptah is mentioned briefly"....yet, during tha long period from King Menes until the 18th Dynasty "PTAH" was considered the primary Diety among the "initiated" up until the reign of Hatsheptut and the Temple of Denderah.

For your many demands of evidences from the periods in question, I have not seen you specifically quote any one source which makes PTAH the "Supreme Being" among the Kamitian initiated until the 18th Dynasty. Again, I believe this is an issue of misrepresentation, as Ra Un Nefer Amen has never undermined the importance of Ptah, and in fact, Ptah is mentioned quite frequently: in the form of Ptah proper; as syncretized with the attributes of Seker (an action which has its actual precedence in Kamitian historical religion); and as implied in Amen's exegesis of the spiritual powers of creation and creative unfoldment (the so-called "siddhis" of tantrism) attained at the level of the Seker sphere of initiation, which, again, on p. 222 of Metu Neter vol. I, Amen equates with Ptah.

This was due largely to the fact that what many now refer to as "Khemetic" or "metu neter" as preceeded by the "Memphite Theology" before a power shift into Thebes, leading the the so-called "Thebean Rescension" in which "Amun-Re" became the principal deity among the PRIESTHOOD which rebelled against Akhenaten who actually had sought to reverse THEIR "reforms". This is why he built temples OUTSITE of the proximity of Thebes.

The problem with this theory is that either the Memphite or Theban cosmology may lay claim to the proper representation of the Ptahite concept. Your burden lies in attributing the engendering of Atum to Ptah *outside* the Memphite documents at any point in the history of Kamitic religious document, which you haven't done, thus removing this contention from the discussion.

This is difficult for 'metu neter' proponents to accept because it calls into question other claims concerning the alledged "sole authority" of Ra Un Nefer Amen himself, and the legitimacy of even the reference of ALL AFRICAN PEOPLE as "khemetic" which is why one one hand, "Khemetic" refers to NILE VALLEY High culture centered at Thebes, while "Nubian" actually refers to an EARLIER "Triad" whose root, again, is based in the Congo Basin.

Interesting. Amen has gone to great lengths to argue that the origin of the teachings he propounds is to be found in the interior of Africa. Beyond this, we enter into the mythological and speculative realm, where it is indeed most difficult to get ones' proper footing.

It seems to my person that you are arguing that, in all other African traditions, the idea of God as the Shaper of Things presides over the being, Atum, that Amen has represented as the No-Thingness, or that the Shaper faculty did not emanate from this being.

We have to be surgically careful here, because what you've done is to militate against Amen's "logical structure", and the different meanings with which his system imbues the deities, rather than presenting the raw data for itself, because by estimating his attribution of the pre-eminence of Ptah to the Memphite priesthood as woefully inaccurate, you've effectively considered Ptah *as precisely* what Amen has depicted him, in function if not in chronology, and sought for his cognates in other African societies.

The problem with your method, although hypothetically tenable, is that the scarcity of documentary evidences for the earliest pantheons of Africa outside of the Nile Valley make its pursuance impractical. However, we can easily amend this fault with a cursory examination of an available and highly-documented, though somewhat contemporary religion of the Yorubas; that is, the worship of Orisha-nla:

"ORISA-NLA is the third Yoruba Supreme Being. It is said that at the time of creation, Olodumare---the first Supreme Being-- prepared the materials with which man was created, namely iron and clay. Hence man is called Ako-irin (male-iron), and woman Obi-irin (female-iron)...While Olodumare prepared the materials, Orisa-nla fashioned the mouth, shaped the nose and fixed the eyes and all members of the body...As priests and priestesses, albinoes, the lame and the hunchback form the majority. They keep themselves to Orisa-nla in order to be fed or cured. They believe that having offended in former lives and being adjudged guilty by Orisa-nla, they are punished accordingly for past offenses."-IFA, The Ancient Wisdom by Afolabi A. Epega, pp. 46-47

Thus, we can see that, in a society of indigenous African people, who may be generated randomly from any point of exodus in the Nile Valley (if one so deems that their origin), a Nile Valley cosmology which descends from, as Amen has stated, Olodumare (or Amen) *into* Orisa-Nla (or Ptah-Seker) is genuinely applicable.

In this example, the nearness of the attributes of Seker and of Ptah, which necessitated the subordination of the attributes of Ptah to Seker in the Ausarian system, even elucidates what this conversation has overlooked: placing a premium on the practical application of metaphysical truths to the layperson's life over learned philosophical exposition, the idea of Seker as it relates to submission to the divine plan, rather than the role of Seker as shaper of things, is the major appeal of the dispossessed initiates into Ptah's cult in Nigeria. Reincarnation (and specifically the dangers associated with forgetfulness of it) is also the precise plane of Seker's activity in the religion of Ausar Auset.

To further the above idea, we have in the Orisa-Nla metaphorein that Olodumare had departed from earth and returned to Heaven (i.e., became hidden, Amen) before Orisa-Nla, and that the latter dwelt among men for a long time, teaching them the proper way to live, before returning to Heaven with his regent, Atem. In no way is this compatible with a priority of Ptah over Atem or Amen (which are aspects of God delineated in the chronology of the metaphorein, and thus not nominally separated in this instance) in the faith of the Yorubas.

The foregoing is a faithful first step to address your concerns about the "Kamitic system", and specifically, the concepts of the priesthood of Amen-Ra, as being a genuine continuation of the African system, or as being applicable to all African people. I can't speak categorically for all African people, but it is certainly applicable at least to a large division of the African race, namely those of Niger, Benin, and the Diaspora Santerians. If there are more examples I can think of, I will summarily post them in a follow-up.

In closing, I will say this: there are several points in the opening chapters of Metu Neter where Amen has made it flatly apparent that the Nubians/Ku****es of pre-history were responsible for the clean diffusion of the traditions of Yoga, Pranayama, Qi Gong, the Mahavedyas and Tantrism generally from Nubia into the Tigris and the Indus Kush Valley, and from the Ku****es of India into China via Bodhidharma. That he places these practices at the foundation of the Kamitic way of life is ample evidence of his stance on the commonality of these peoples, so that your concern should not be to place the origin of our doctrine at some 19th Dynasty "usurpation", but rather, to effectively remove the basis for our *religion* (not our cosmology, which is philosophical, not yogic), AS AMEN HAS REPRESENTED IT, from pre-historic Nubia, without upsetting their positions in China, Mesopotamia, India and Palestine from pre-historic times.

At the very least, his centralization of the religion we practice in the remote South at a pre-historic period should quiet your suggestions of his "anti-Nubianism", whatever place that has in this discussion.


Music Producer

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2004

Depending upon which prospective of the tribes that made-up Egypt you are coming from and Dynasty. Now do you see why Akhenaten setout to change and culminate all of the scattered theories of Kemet, mainly to stop the people from fighting and hinder religious takeover of government. But in doing so he became the target of assault.

In my study of Kemet Cosmology when you stand back and look at it as a whole it is complete chaos and anarchy. This is because most people when studying Kemet / Egypt religion fail to realize they are looking at religious or cosmology ideals that covers about 8000 years of history and spans the reign of mutable tribes and people who all had their own derivative concepts of Cosmology.

We act as if religion, cosmology, cosmogony has not the ability to be corrupted. To solve this problem one would have to study the constant of all the theologies in Kemet from its origin. In doing so you find One constant, and that is the Supreme Being, no mater what the name of that Supreme Being is. From the point of view of the Supreme Being of all the cosmologies of Kemet Akhenaten setout to finalize Kemet theology and establish it as one unified religious force. Akhenaten and several, well behaved Amun Priests and studies of theology wrote the Holy Scriptures. What I mean by, “well behaved Priests” are those priests that did not use religion as a means to take over government and gain power. But even in the Holy Scriptures we continue to see the theological differences manifests between these priests that followed Akhenaten as Pharaoh or Chef authority over the final say so of a book that would unite Kemet in One GOD. You can see the different manifestations of the Supreme Being from the point of view of the Kemet Priests as the Yahwist, Elohist, Priestly and Deuteronomist.

Akhenaten’s plan was working and going good, Akhetaten became one of the wealthiest cities of Egypt. It was puling in so much wealth and resources from people all over the country and beyond Egypt that Akhenaten started covering the walls with gold leaf and many armies from Egypt and tributaries constantly sent letters to Akhenaten for resources and troops, you can get a feeling of how great Akhetaten became through reading ISBN 0-8018-4251-4, The Amarna Letters.

All was good until the thug Amun Priesthood that Akhenaten had relinquished there position because they were hustling religion and only interested in taking over government for power got so jealous and vengeful that they attacked members of Akhenaten’s family, even attempting to assassinate Akhenaten himself and establishing a cults that saw Akhenaten as what we would call Lucifer today.

They began infiltrating the courts of Akhenaten, so much so that they were able to murder both his daughters. The main person suspected of being the betrayer within Akhenaten’s courts was Lord Ay.

Music Producer

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2004

no, please do not destroy the teachings of the metu neter
You and your gang are already doing that as you expand your membership and start running into more intelligible African Americans. The difference between those intelligible African Americans and those that are not is intelligible African Americans can read and comprehend. The people you have grabbed are those that can read but they don’t comprehend. I am sure you have run into these same types of African Americans in the Servants of Jesus communities. They can rattle off beautiful verses and passages and speak them in a lovely hypnotic tone. But cannot give the deeper meaning of the passages nor have any idea as to its relations to the big picture. That type of mind is the bulk of your membership.

the metu neter teaches of a path to self realization where anyone can attain divine self-realization,
Then why don’t you teach only that? Why do you have to teach prejudice against the Old

Testament when that is NOT found in the Metu Neter and you have absolutely no resource for doing so?

Metu Neter, chapter 6, first paragraph, page 69:
Before creation can began, the Supreme Being must first make objective its qualities of Being (Sphere 0). Note that in the Subjective state there cannot even be so much as a single thought. The very first manifestation of a though is already a process of objectification…………..Creation, then proceeded by a process whereby the Supreme Being brings itself into manifestation……………..

………………The Supreme Being brings fourth the awareness that its identity is the capability of being whatever it chooses to be and it is immortal, and eternal.

From the author of the Metu Neter he is outright telling you that the Supreme Being is not a limited Being.

So why do you teach that the Supreme Being cannot Speak or become authorized Words in a Book?

Even the Dogon speak of The First Word. The Second Word, The Third Word, etc……..
Even though they have a much deeper meaning but you get the basic point.

I think it is those Words that you are trying to destroy and then you can make the move to invent your own word, your own imagination, your own control, which is exactly how the New Testament is manifested.

You stray from the doctrine of your own faith in order to lie against the Old Testament or Holy Scriptures.
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