Black Relationships : Marriage in Islam

Discussion in 'Black Relationships' started by abdurratln, Jul 28, 2010.

  1. abdurratln

    abdurratln Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    It happens all te time. If we try to avoid this the issues and problems assciated with relationships, epecially male-female relationships among Africans, the issues and problesm coming looking for you. They want know if you are the problem when in reality they are the problem which is why we tried to avoid tem in the first place. It is kind of crazy. And, it all boils down to crazy people.

    As I see it, after so many bad and failed experiences trying to deal with such carziness over so many years ad decades, the problem is largely if not wholly derived from ignorance. And, when we combine ignorance with the arroance that seems to be norm everywhere we fid Americans, well then, we have a real problem.

    I know that I am being boycotted. It is just another sorry attempt to intimidate and otherwise coerce me to something that I am against right down to the whiteness of my bones. How, can anyone boycoytt me when it is I who have tried to avoid this issue. I have deliberately and seriously tried to stay away from thsi discussion. But, those who boycott me keep coming after me: "what about your ex-wife". Do you like Arab women? Are you gay? Jeusus is GOD which tranlslate into the white man is GOD. You name it.

    Even Muslims think I must prefer an African Christian to a white Muslimah. That is just crazy.

    Anyhow, here it is folks. You want to know why I cannot stand African Christian women? Just hang for a moment and i will try to explain.
     
  2. abdurratln

    abdurratln Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I think Christianity is a highly contradictory and confusing even crazy religion. Let me make that clear first and foremost. For this reason alone, Christians cannot take their Scriptures seriously. It is because their Scriptures and so confusing and contradctory. And, because they cannot and do not take their Scriptures seriously, they seem to think that Muslims likewise do not take Quran and Hadith seriously. But, we do. This is why it is usually impossible for a Chrstian to have empathy for a Muslim. And, this is why I try to avoid situations with Christians that would involve intimacy in which a degrree of empathy is required on both sides.

    Because we take Quran and Hadith and Sunnah seriously, whenit comes to such matter as marrage, we consult with those texts seeking guidance on the matter. Accordingly, I will offer what we have in translations of Quran to show what marriage is all about in Islam.

    But, the first and most important issue is that dating and premarital sex, etc. is not allowed in Islam. With that said, I will quote Quran below.
     
  3. abdurratln

    abdurratln Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    [2:102] They pursued what the devils taught concerning Solomon's kingdom. Solomon, however, was not a disbeliever, but the devils were disbelievers. They taught the people sorcery, and that which was sent down through the two angels of Babel, Haroot and Maroot. These two did not divulge such knowledge without pointing out: "This is a test. You shall not abuse such knowledge." But the people used it in such evil schemes as the breaking up of marriages. They can never harm anyone against the will of GOD. They thus learn what hurts them, not what benefits them, and they know full well that whoever practices witchcraft will have no share in the Hereafter. Miserable indeed is what they sell their souls for, if they only knew.

    [2:221] Do not marry idolatresses unless they believe; a believing woman is better than an idolatress, even if you like her. Nor shall you give your daughters in marriage to idolatrous men, unless they believe. A believing man is better than an idolater, even if you like him. These invite to Hell, while GOD invites to Paradise and forgiveness, as He wills. He clarifies His revelations for the people, that they may take heed.

    [2:235] You commit no sin by announcing your engagement to the women, or keeping it secret. GOD knows that you will think about them. Do not meet them secretly, unless you have something righteous to discuss. Do not consummate the marriage until their interim is fulfilled. You should know that GOD knows your innermost thoughts, and observe Him. You should know that GOD is Forgiver, Clement.

    [4:3] If you deem it best for the orphans, you may marry their mothers - you may marry two, three, or four. If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have. Additionally, you are thus more likely to avoid financial hardship.

    [4:4] You shall give the women their due dowries, equitably. If they willingly forfeit anything, then you may accept it; it is rightfully yours.

    [4:22] Do not marry the women who were previously married to your fathers - existing marriages are exempted and shall not be broken - for it is a gross offense, and an abominable act.

    [4:23] Prohibited for you (in marriage) are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, the sisters of your fathers, the sisters of your mothers, the daughters of your brother, the daughters of your sister, your nursing mothers, the girls who nursed from the same woman as you, the mothers of your wives, the daughters of your wives with whom you have consummated the marriage - if the marriage has not been consummated, you may marry the daughter. Also prohibited for you are the women who were married to your genetic sons. Also, you shall not be married to two sisters at the same time - but do not break up existing marriages. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

    [4:24] Also prohibited are the women who are already married, unless they flee their disbelieving husbands who are at war with you. These are GOD's commandments to you. All other categories are permitted for you in marriage, so long as you pay them their due dowries. You shall maintain your morality, by not committing adultery. Thus, whoever you like among them, you shall pay them the dowry decreed for them. You commit no error by mutually agreeing to any adjustments to the dowry. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.

    [4:25] Those among you who cannot afford to marry free believing women, may marry believing slave women. GOD knows best about your belief, and you are equal to one another, as far as belief is concerned. You shall obtain permission from their guardians before you marry them, and pay them their due dowry equitably. They shall maintain moral behavior, by not committing adultery, or having secret lovers. Once they are freed through marriage, if they commit adultery, their punishment shall be half of that for the free women. Marrying a slave shall be a last resort for those unable to wait. To be patient is better for you. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

    [4:34] The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.

    [4:35] If a couple fears separation, you shall appoint an arbitrator from his family and an arbitrator from her family; if they decide to reconcile, GOD will help them get together. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.

    [4:127] They consult you concerning women: say, "GOD enlightens you regarding them, as recited for you in the scripture. You shall restore the rights of orphaned girls whom you cheat out of their due dowries when you wish to marry them: you shall not take advantage of them. The rights of orphaned boys must also be protected as well. You shall treat the orphans equitably. Whatever good you do, GOD is fully aware thereof."

    [4:128] If a woman senses oppression or desertion from her husband, the couple shall try to reconcile their differences, for conciliation is best for them. Selfishness is a human trait, and if you do good and lead a righteous life, GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.

    [4:129] You can never be equitable in dealing with more than one wife, no matter how hard you try. Therefore, do not be so biased as to leave one of them hanging (neither enjoying marriage, nor left to marry someone else). If you correct this situation and maintain righteousness, GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

    [4:130] If the couple must decide to part, GOD will provide for each of them from His bounties. GOD is Bounteous, Most Wise.

    [5:5] Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture is lawful for you, [and your food is lawful for them]*. Also, you may marry the chaste women among the believers, as well as the chaste women among the followers of previous scripture, provided you pay them their due dowries. You shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery, nor taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be with the losers.

    [24:3] The adulterer will end up marrying an adulteress or an idol worshiper, and the adulteress will end up marrying an adulterer or an idol worshiper. This is prohibited for the believers.

    [24:4] Those who accuse married women of adultery, then fail to produce four witnesses, you shall whip them eighty lashes, and do not accept any testimony from them; they are wicked.

    [24:5] If they repent afterwards and reform, then GOD is Forgiver, Merciful.

    [24:6] As for those who accuse their own spouses, without any other witnesses, then the testimony may be accepted if he swears by GOD four times that he is telling the truth.

    [24:7] The fifth oath shall be to incur GOD's condemnation upon him, if he was lying.

    [24:8] She shall be considered innocent if she swears by GOD four times that he is a liar.

    [24:9] The fifth oath shall incur GOD's wrath upon her if he was telling the truth.

    [30:21] Among His proofs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other, and He placed in your hearts love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are sufficient proofs for people who think.

    [33:50] O prophet, we made lawful for you your wives to whom you have paid their due dowry, or what you already have, as granted to you by GOD. Also lawful for you in marriage are the daughters of your father's brothers, the daughters of your father's sisters, the daughters of your mother's brothers, the daughters of your mother's sisters, who have emigrated with you. Also, if a believing woman gave herself to the prophet - by forfeiting the dowry - the prophet may marry her without a dowry, if he so wishes. However, her forfeiting of the dowry applies only to the prophet, and not to the other believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses or what they already have. This is to spare you any embarrassment. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

    [33:51] You may gently shun any one of them, and you may bring closer to you any one of them. If you reconcile with any one you had estranged, you commit no error. In this way, they will be pleased, will have no grief, and will be content with what you equitably offer to all of them. GOD knows what is in your hearts. GOD is Omniscient, Clement.

    [33:52] Beyond the categories described to you, you are enjoined from marrying any other women, nor can you substitute a new wife (from the prohibited categories), no matter how much you admire their beauty. You must be content with those already made lawful to you. GOD is watchful over all things.

    [42:11] Initiator of the heavens and the earth. He created for you from among yourselves spouses - and also for the animals. He thus provides you with the means to multiply. There is nothing that equals Him. He is the Hearer, the Seer.

    [60:10] O you who believe, when believing women (abandon the enemy and) ask for asylum with you, you shall test them. GOD is fully aware of their belief. Once you establish that they are believers, you shall not return them to the disbelievers. They are not lawful to remain married to them, nor shall the disbelievers be allowed to marry them. Give back the dowries that the disbelievers have paid. You commit no error by marrying them, so long as you pay them their due dowries. Do not keep disbelieving wives (if they wish to join the enemy). You may ask them for the dowry you had paid, and they may ask for what they paid. This is GOD's rule; He rules among you. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.

    (http://www.submission.org/suras/sura60.html#10)
     
  4. abdurratln

    abdurratln Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Prohibition of Dating in Islam

    Dating is not allowed in Islam. In fact, men and women should avoid all socializing prior to marriage in Islam. This is a belief that I developed by reading The Bible as a Christian prior to accepting Islam. To be honest about it, I left Christianity in part because so many Christians refuse to accept this standards while Muslims still try to maintain it even under the hostile conditions in western countries. For one thing, I have always desired to instill in my children and grandchildren a sense of high moral values, including valuing the avoidance of premarital sex such as wat has led to 70% of African children being born outside wedlock. In fact, one of the biggest barriers between Africans of the Diaspora and those back home is we in the Diaspora have tended to adopt the relatively low standards of the west while we back home tend to maintain standards Ordained by GOD Almighty. In fact, some of my closest and dearest friends have gone back homw to find suitable spouses because tey are next ti impossible to find in this country.

    But, to say dating is not allowed in Islam is just a personal opinion. Below, I have compiled the insights and opinions of a few experts on the subject:

    Why has Islam prohibited dating?
    ________________________________________
    • From: "Muslims Are Good Folks" <[email protected]>
    • Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 10:30:15 -0400
    ________________________________________
    Why has Islam prohibited dating?

    "Dating" as it is currently practiced in much of the world shall not exist
    among Muslims -- where a man and a woman (or boy/girl) are in a one-on-one
    intimate relationship, spending time together alone, getting to know each
    other in a very deep way.

    A man and a woman are not allowed to be alone together, and any physical
    contact before marriage is forbidden. Hence, Dating is not permitted in
    Islam.

    Allah has prohibited girl/boyfriend relationships in the Qur'an

    "(Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste
    women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before
    your time, when you have given their due Mahr (bridal-money given by the
    husband to his wife at the time of marriage), desiring chastity (i.e. taking
    them in legal wedlock) not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking
    them as girlfriends. ... - Al-Ma'idah 5:5.​

    If a Muslim man has the desire and willingness to assume marital
    responsibilities, and he doesn?t have anyone in mind, he might ask his
    friends, family, and relatives if there is a lady that might be suitable for
    him among their acquaintances and relatives, and then the couple can meet
    with their family members.

    As a result, many marriages in the Muslim world were traditionally arranged
    marriages, though this is not a religious requirement. However, both couples
    can not be forced to accept an arranged marriage and if a man likes someone
    (with the intention of marriage) that he knows from work, neighborhood or
    acquaintances, etc? he shall propose to her.

    Islam also encourages Muslims to marry persons for whom they have special
    feelings and are comfortable with. Thus, Islam recommends that potential
    marriage partners see one another before proposing marriage. Explaining the
    reason for such a recommendation, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:

    That would enhance/foster the bonding.

    However the prospective couple shall not meet in private, this might lead to
    extremely unwanted situations, as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said :

    Whenever a man is alone with a woman, Satan is the third among them?
    (Reported by At-Tirmidhi)..

    At all times, Muslims should follow the commands of the Qur'an "Tell the
    believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and
    protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer
    for them. "

    In conclusion, Islam lays its social structure on the basis of a permanent
    relationship between a man and a woman in the form of a family.

    Consequently, to preserve this marital relationship, it forbids all forms of
    temporary relationships between a man and a woman. Pre-marital relationships in Islam are not considered respectful for neither the man nor the woman,
    nor is it constructive for the concept or the building the family or the
    Islamic society.
    (http://www.islamonline.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=761)

    Is dating or boyfriend-girlfriend allowed in Islam?
    In: Teen Dating, Islam

    Praise be to Allah.

    Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    "… Wed them with the permission of their own folk and give them their mahr (dowry) according to what is reasonable; they should be chaste, not adulterous, nor taking boyfriends…" [al-Nisaa' 4:25]​

    In his commentary on this aayah, Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    "Muhsanaat [translated as "chaste"] means that they should be pure, not indulging in zinaa (unlawful sexual conduct), hence they are described as not being musaafihaat, which means promiscuous women who do not refuse anyone who wants to commit immoral acts with them. Regarding the phrase wa laa muttakhidhaati akhdaan ('nor taking boyfriends'), Ibn 'Abbaas said: 'al-musaafihaat means those who are known to commit zinaa, meaning those who will not refuse anyone who wants to commit immoral acts with them.' Ibn 'Abbaas also said: 'muttakhidhaati akhdaan means lovers.' A similar interpretation was narrated from Abu Hurayrah, Mujaahid, al-Sha'bi, al-Dahhaak, 'Ataa' al-Khurasaani, Yahyaa ibn Abi Katheer, Muqaatil ibn Hayyaan and al-Saddi. They said: (it means) lovers. Al-Hasan al-Basri said: 'It means a (male) friend.' Al-Dahhaak also said: 'wa laa muttakhidhaati akhdaan also means a woman who has just one boyfriend or lover with whom she is happy. Allaah has also forbidden this, meaning marrying her so long as she is in that situation…'"​

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    "Made lawful to you this day are al-tayyibaat [all kinds of halaal (lawful) foods…]. The food of the People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them. (Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before your time, when you have given their due mahr (bridal money given by the husband to the wife at the time of marriage), desiring chastity (i.e., taking them in legal wedlock), not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girlfriends. And whosoever disbelieves in the Oneness of Allaah and in all the other Articles of Faith, the fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers." [al-Maa'idah 5:5]​
    Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    "Muhsineen ghayr musaafiheen wa laa muttakhidhi akhdaan ('desiring chastity (i.e., taking them in legal wedlock), not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girlfriends'). Just as Allaah imposed the condition of chastity on women, meaning that they refrain from zinaa, so it is also imposed on men. The man must also be pure and chaste. So they should be ghayr musaafiheen, meaning they should not be adulterers who do not refrain from sin and do not refuse any who come to them (for immoral purposes). Nor should they be muttakhidhi akhdaan, meaning those who have girlfriends or female lovers with whom they have an exclusive relationship, as quoted above from Soorat al-Nisaa'. (The one with many lovers or the one with just one lover) are both the same. For this reason Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (may Allaah have mercy on him) said that it is not right to marry a promiscuous woman unless she has repented, or to arrange a marriage of such a woman to a chaste man, so long as she is still conducting herself in this manner. Similarly, he (Ahmad) says that it is not right for a promiscuous man to marry a chaste woman unless he repents and gives up his immoral conduct, because of this aayah… We will discuss this matter in further detail after quoting the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

    "Let no man guilty of fornication or adultery marry any but a woman similarly guilty, or an unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden." [al-Noor 24:3]
    Among the stories that show that it is forbidden to have girlfriends or to marry them is the story of Marthad ibn Abi Marthad, who used to smuggle Muslim prisoners-of-war from Makkah to Madeenah. There was a prostitute in Makkah, called 'Anaaq, who had been a friend of Marthad's. Marthad had promised to take one of the prisoners from Makkah to Madeenah. He said: "I came to the shade of one of the gardens of Makkah on a moonlit night, then 'Anaaq came and saw my shadow by the garden. When she reached me, she recognized me and said: 'Marthad?' I said, 'Marthad.' She said: 'Welcome! Stay with us tonight.' I said, 'O 'Anaaq, Allaah has forbidden zinaa (unlawful sexual relations)' … I came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and asked him, 'O Messenger of Allaah, should I marry 'Anaaq?' The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) remained silent and did not answer me at all, until the aayah 'Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry any but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever; nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman; to the Believers such a thing is forbidden' [al-Noor 24:3 - Yusuf 'Ali's translation] was revealed. Then the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: 'O Marthad, Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry any but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever; nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman, so do not marry her.'"​

    (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, 3101; he said: it is a hasan ghareeb hadeeth).
    'Abd-Allaah ibn Maghfal reported that there was a woman who had been a prostitute during the days of ignorance (before Islam). A man passed by her, or she passed by him, and he touched her. She said: "Stop it! (Mah! A word connoting a rebuke or denunciation). Allaah has done away with shirk and had brought Islam." So he left her alone and went away, still looking at her, until he walked into a wall, hitting his face. He came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and told him what had happened. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "You are a man for whom Allaah wishes good. When Allaah, may He be blessed and exalted, wishes good for His slave, He hastens the punishment for his sin, so that it is dealt with before the Day of Resurrection." (Reported by al-Haakim, 1/349, who said this hadeeth is saheeh according to the conditions of Muslim, and al-Dhahabi agreed with him. See Saheeh al-Jaami', 308).

    These aayaat and ahaadeeth clearly indicate that it is haraam (forbidden) for men to have any kind of friendship or relationship with non-mahram women (women to whom they are not closely-related and to whom they could get married). The evil consequences and misery caused by such relationships are obvious to anyone who observes real life. We ask Allaah to keep us far away from that which is forbidden, to protect us from all that may earn His wrath and to keep us safe from a painful punishment. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.

    Islam Q&A
    Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_dating_or_boyfriend-girlfriend_allowed_in_Islam


    Islam - Dating
    ________________________________________
    Expert: Hayat Anne Collins Osman - 8/19/2005

    Question
    For the past 7 months I have been dating a non-muslim brother. I've tried to call this brother to Islam several times, and it hasn't worked. I came out of my hijab for other stressful reason (I know there is know valid reason). I'm trying to end it with this brother, because I need to get back on track. What is the weight of what I've been doing these past 7 months? And will I have to take my Shaddah over again?

    Answer
    Asalamu aleykum

    First of all, you should know that dating is absolutely haram. It is haram to keep company with a man outside marriage, haram to touch, haram to flirt, haram to be alone with him, haram for him to see anything of you besides your face and your hands, haram for him to see your makeup, perfume, or jewelry, and haram to speak to him in an affectionate or flirtatious way. It doesn't matter whether you are calling him to Islam or not. It is still haram to date.

    All of that does not make you a kaffir. If you still believe, you are still Muslim. What you need to do is repent.

    In order to repent, you must:
    1. acknowledge that you have sinned.
    2. stop sinning.
    3. ask Allah to forgive you.
    4. if you have injured anyone by your sin, make reparations to him and obtain his forgiveness.
    5. change the conditions in your life that led you to sin, which means, of course, to completely sever your relations with this man. Give his phone number to a good Muslim brother, and let him offer him dawah.​


    Who knows? Maybe his seeing that you practice what you preach may help him to come to Islam! Insha'Allah!

    If he accepts Islam, then you can marry him, but even then, you cannot even speak directly of love until you are married, and all the other restrictions I have listed above apply until you are married.

    All of us sin, all of us repent, and all of us hope to be forgiven in this life and spared the horror of the hellfire, insha'Allah.

    May Allah bless, forgive, and guide us all.

    Hayat Anne Collins Osman

    Please pray for my family and for me.
    (http://en.allexperts.com/q/Islam-947/Dating.htm)

    The Purpose Of Islam Dating

    Most people are confused about whether Islam dating is allowed or not. They are confused not because of wrong teachings they have at home, but because they see other Muslims dating. Well, pre-marital relationships are not allowed in Islam. Muslims may wonder how they can marry, if they do not get a chance to know the other person. But youngsters always jump to conclusions.

    Many young Muslim men and women want to take their own decisions, because the world has changed that way. If they want a partner for a lifetime, they may use the services of Islamic matrimonial sites, to hunt for their requirements. This is also known as dating as is often misinterpreted by many people who don’t know much about Islam.

    Muslims have to follow a dua when they want to get married. This means they will seek the blessings of Allah, to help them find a good match. Muslim matrimonial sites are the best sites for any Muslim for dating, or for finding a partner for themselves. This method is very easy and also reaches borders all over the world.

    Most families will help the individual when they hunt for a partner. Dating in Islam is not permitted, as the religion respects a person’s individuality, especially a woman’s. It is believed that man and woman are created for the purpose of a family and spiritual unity, not for other purposes. Muslim men and women should behave modestly in each other’s presence.

    Another important thing is that even if two individuals are to be married, they cannot meet each other alone. They will have to have a family member present. This is only to ensure they maintain the faith of their religion. All Muslims cultures may not follow this of course. Though families living in the West do maintain their vows, some people tend to stray.

    Dating in Islam, as in related to matrimonial sites, is slowly becoming a part of their culture. Through this opportunity, they can view thousands of profiles updated on the sites. They do not have to wait at home, like with the traditional method, and wait for photographs to come through marriage brokers. Muslims always like to be very intimate with families, and all families are with the couple most of the time, to give them moral support during the course of marriage.


    Families are also around when their children date or find partners on Islamic matrimonial sites, so that they can check the background of the chosen profile. They will also check the status, education and members of the family before accepting a marriage alliance.

    Islam dating is not approved because the Koran states that all Muslims must be clean when they are to be married. It also says that dealing with physical relationships before marriage, will stop an individual from being pure and seeking God in that pure state. This is something very challenging for youngsters to do, as they grow up in a modern world.
    (http://www.muslim-dating.net/islam-dating/)

    Dating in Islam
    Assalam o allaikum Br. Rizwan,
    Based on our conversation last night, I have collected some references for you.

    Dating in Islam:
    Dating as explained by the western culture is the courtship of a single man and a woman who spend time together to know eachother before making a decision to marry eachother. Some muslims have also taken an excuse out of this practice by saying that one should know with whom he or she is going to get married and to know about the future spouse they resort to the concept dating.

    First of all we see what Allah SWT has said about what is being lawful in this case.

    الْيَوْمَ أُحِلَّ لَكُمُ الطَّيِّبَاتُ وَطَعَامُ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَابَ حِلٌّ لَّكُمْ وَطَعَامُكُمْ حِلُّ لَّهُمْ وَالْمُحْصَنَاتُ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنَاتِ وَالْمُحْصَنَاتُ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَابَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ إِذَا آتَيْتُمُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ مُحْصِنِينَ غَيْرَ مُسَافِحِينَ وَلاَ مُتَّخِذِي أَخْدَانٍ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِالإِيمَانِ فَقَدْ حَبِطَ عَمَلُهُ وَهُوَ فِي الآخِرَةِ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ

    Translation:
    Made lawful to you this day are At¬Tayyibât [all kinds of Halâl (lawful) foods, which Allâh has made lawful (meat of slaughtered eatable animals, etc., milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits, etc.). The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals, etc.) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them. ( Lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women from the believers and chaste women from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before your time, when you have given their due Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), desiring chastity ( i.e. taking them in legal wedlock) not committing illegal sexual intercourse, nor taking them as girl-friends. And whosoever disbelieves in the Oneness of Allâh and in all the other Articles of Faith [ i.e. His (Allâh's), Angels, His Holy Books, His Messengers, the Day of Resurrection and Al¬Qadar (Divine Preordainments)], then fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers. (Al - Maidah: Ayah 5)
    So it is very clear that Allah SWT has prohibited us to be in companionship with people secretly without having a wedlock.​

    Regarding our culture in Pakistan, we have these evils creeping into our muslim homes as well where people are interpreting Islam in whichever way they deem fit to fulfil their desires but we do not have to go far to get our answers. We just have to see what Prophet SAW said about a practice of being alone with a woman.

    Prohibition of being alone with a non-mahram woman:
    Ibn Juraij narrated this hadith with the same chain of transmitters, but he made no mention of it:" No person should be alone with a woman except when there is a mahram with her."

    Sahih Muslim 3112
    Ibn 'Abbas (Allaah be pleased with them) reported: I heard Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) delivering a sermon and making this observation:" No person should be alone with a woman except when there is a mahram with her, and the woman should not undertake journey except with a mahram." A person stood up and said: Allaah's Messenger, my wife has set out for pilgrimage, whereas I am enlisted to fight in such and such battle, whereupon he said:" You go and perform Hajj with your wife."
    Sahih Muslim 3110

    Prophet SAW said, "Whenever a man is alone with a woman, Satan is the third among them"

    At-Tirmidhi
    There are many other ahadeeth that give the daleel that its not allowed to be alone with a non-mahram woman. Allah SWT gives a clear commandment to us in Quran regarding our ettiquettes when we see a non-mahram man or a woman.

    The following ayah is a direct commandment to the men for their behaviour.
    قُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنِينَ يَغُضُّوا مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِمْ وَيَحْفَظُوا فُرُوجَهُمْ ذَلِكَ أَزْكَى لَهُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ خَبِيرٌ بِمَا يَصْنَعُونَ (24:30)

    Translation:
    Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer for them. Verily, Allâh is All-Aware of what they do.​

    Below is the ayah that is very mufassil about the behaviour of the muslim women and see that Allah SWT has commanded again for the muslim women to lower their gaze as well.

    وَقُل لِّلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَيَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوجَهُنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَلْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلَى جُيُوبِهِنَّ وَلَا يُبْدِينَ زِينَتَهُنَّ إِلَّا لِبُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَائِهِنَّ أَوْ آبَاء بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَائِهِنَّ أَوْ أَبْنَاء بُعُولَتِهِنَّ أَوْ إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي إِخْوَانِهِنَّ أَوْ بَنِي أَخَوَاتِهِنَّ أَوْ نِسَائِهِنَّ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُنَّ أَوِ التَّابِعِينَ غَيْرِ أُوْلِي الْإِرْبَةِ مِنَ الرِّجَالِ أَوِ الطِّفْلِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يَظْهَرُوا عَلَى عَوْرَاتِ النِّسَاء وَلَا يَضْرِبْنَ بِأَرْجُلِهِنَّ لِيُعْلَمَ مَا يُخْفِينَ مِن زِينَتِهِنَّ وَتُوبُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا أَيُّهَا الْمُؤْمِنُونَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ

    Translation:
    And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women ( i.e. their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful. ​

    Permissibility to see one's future Spouse:

    Now, then what is that permissibility that is often talked about that Islam allowes a person to see the prospective spouse before marriage?
    Following is the criteria that Prophet SAW put forth when a man looks for a spouse. ​

    Abu Hurairah related that the Prophet Muhammad said: "Men choose women for four reasons: for their money, for their rank, for their beauty and for their religion, but marry one who is religious and you will succeed.
    Bukhari, Muslim.

    Although Prophet SAW categorically mentioned that one should choose a spouse based on her religion, the other three things mentioned also needs some consideration. For example, it is not prohibited to marry a woman based on her beauty, it will not be the best choice (as the best choice should be based on her understanding of the deen), but none the less it is not prohibited.

    Also, apart from this, there are evidences, where Prophet Mohammad SAW has encouraged the people to see whom they will marry. This is because the physical attraction is a factor that will keep both the man and the woman to be away from the wrong doing and if their mutual attraction is strong, then they are less prone to commit sins.

    Once a sahabi told Rasulallah SAW that he was going to get married. Prophet SAW asked him if he had seen the woman. When the man said no, Prophet SAW said, "Go and look at her for it is more likely to develope love between the two of you."
    Sunan Ahmad

    Prophet SAW also said, "If one of you proposes to a woman and if he is able to look at of her that which motivates him to marry her, let him do so."
    Sunan Abu Dawud

    There are some key aspects of consideration regarding this looking of the man or woman before marriage. Scholars are divided on the point whether it is sunnah to look at the future spouse or whether it is something that is merely permissible. However in either case, it is something that is lawful.
    Also these ahadeeth do not mean that they allow the women to abrogate their limits of Hijab. Even in this looking she should be well covered in Hijab except face and hands. Since it is a special condition of looking for the purpose of marriage proposal, it is allowed for both the man and the woman to take a good look at eachother. If it were any other occasion, they would be averting their eyes from eachother after the first glance and lower their gaze, just as it is explained in the ayah above.

    Regarding conversation between the man and the woman in this case is not permissible according to majority of the scholars. The scholars agree based on the above ahadeeth that although it is allowed to see the prospective spouse for their beauty and physical appearance, conversation about various matters is not allowed. The maharim of the woman must be present in this meeting. If there is anything that needs to be known by either one of them, they should find that out through their walis (guardians/parents).
    From the above, it can be understood that those muslims who seek an excuse from the ahadeeth of Rasulallah that it is allowed to freely mix with the opposite sex in order to know them better for a possibility of marriage, is not correct and is prohibited.

    If there are any particular questions that you might have, please feel free to ask.
    Wassalam
    ابو حلیمۃ
    (http://hanafifiqh.blogspot.com/2007/06/dating-in-islam.html)
     
  5. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    You have not shown any valid reason that you "cannot stand African Christian women". You did show within your post that muslim women who are not true to islamic principles do the exact same thing as Christian women who are not true to Christain principles. Men and women who are true to Christian principles do not engage in premarital sex, dating(as most people consider dating), or other such things.

    Why would you limit your inability to "stand" African Christians to women as opposed to all Christians???
     
  6. abdurratln

    abdurratln Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    And, I will not show any.

    I am missing your point.

    I know that. But, 70% of Africans are born out of wedlock ihis country. So lgic dicates that the vast majority of Africans do not uphold even the lowest mral values. That leaves as very small and insignificant number of true Christians. But, do not worry. Islam has come to fill the gap

    Because this does not apply to all Christians to the same degree. Most Catholic women for example get married. Usually they get drunk before they get married. But, they do get married. And once they get marriedm, they usually stay married.

    But, even non-African Protestants do not have 70% of theihildren born as bastards. (I said "bastards" to make somebody mad so I can get a heated discussion going. LOOOOOOOL. I am bored.) Only African so callerd Americans have ever done such stupid nosense. No other people in history has ever stooped that low, unless you count Sodam and Gomorah, maybe.
     
  7. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I see why you are "boycotted" as you claim.
    Islam cannot fill the gap if by the very example you provided, muslim women are not being true to islamic doctrines and values. The reason you are missing my point is because you are providing scriptures which indicate that islamic principles forbid premarital sex...I can list plenty of scriptures that indicate that Christian principles forbid premarital sex, the point is only those who are true to the principles they identify with are true representatives of the benefits of that identity.

    Yes 70% of African Americans are born out of wedlock, but none of these represent faithfulness to Christian nor Islamic principles...in fact, they represent the fact that at least 70% of our people are not living according to these principles. Furthermore, the 70% figure does not indicate that 30% of us are muslim, it says nothing at all in favor of or against Islam.

    What is this connection you are trying to make between the 70% of Blacks who are having children out of wedlock and Christianity??? If you are not true to the principles, your behavior is not connected to the belief system.
     
  8. abdurratln

    abdurratln Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    I never said any such nonsense. You are dreaming.

    The point is Muslims are not confused about principles. Christians have had the principles compromised by western values. Notice how western liberals always seek some kind of a compromise. Islam does not compromise because GOD Does not Compromise. GOD's Law is Absolute and we understand this and accept it. Thus, we consider orselves as Slaves of GOD because we know that we can do nothing without GOD's Permission. We cannot even breathe our next breath without GOD's Permssion. For instance, Muslims Pray every day that GOD will Allow us to continue to live and to Guide us.

    Quran makes thing clear where thing had previously been confused. People think they can outsmart GOD. But, Quran is clear. And, Muslims undersatnd that we cannot have sex outside marriage. That is a volation of Islamic Law. But, Christians are so smart and clever that they do it all the time, get pregnant and think they can convince the world that it wqas immaculate conception. Muslims are just not that dumb.

    Not even 1% of the Muslims of world are born outside wedlock. Not even 1/10th of 1% of Muslims are born outsie marriage.


    I am not trying to make any connection. It does not really matter to me anymore because I have made up my mind that I will not tolarate it. When I get married again she MUST BE A MUSLIMAH. I do not care if I have to go to Timbuktu to find a clean and chaste and moral woman. I will not accept what the average woman deos here in America. It is simply.


    But, American women are arrogant enough and stupid enough to think that they can continue to have it their way and not GOD's Way. That workded 10-20 years ago to some extent. But with new technology in communication, we can contact clean women in Asia and Africa and Arabia. All we have to do is get an airplane ticket out of this sick and corrupt country. Go to Africa, go to Arabia, go to Asia, marry some smart and clean woman and bring her back here. Or we might decide to just stay over there. I am considering the later option. I am retired and do not need to work any more. So, I could easily leave this country and have my pension sent to me in Africa and live happily ever after. LOOOOL. Do not play dumb with me.
     
  9. Full Speed

    Full Speed Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    If Muslims the world over are so clean, chaste and pure, why are you talking about going to ASIA, AFRICA, and ARABIA to find a wife???????????? You are full of contradictions. Are there no MUSLIM women in AMERICA????? You want to leave this corrupt country then you want to get a Muslim wife, then bring her back here!?!?! You seem so confused as to rather you have a problem with American Women, Western values, Christian women or Muslim women who live in America (because you have spoken against American women as though your complaint did not differentiate between American Muslims and non-muslims.)
     
  10. abdurratln

    abdurratln Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    In Islam women get married and stay married. So, there are very few Muslim women available to Muslim men in this country. Therefore, it is common practice in the Muslim community to go back home to find wives. This is because as general rule no American woman is acceptable.


    Of course, there is the Nation of Islam. But, we do not seruiously consider them to be Muslims, especially not the women. For one thing, usually Nation of Islam women are little better than the average American woman. Many do not bother to get married. Many are prostitutes, straight out.

    You want to leave this corrupt country then you want to get a Muslim wife, then bring her back here!?!?!

    No. I said I want to leave this country period and stay gone.

    I have a problem with the western white man culture and society and the horse it rode in on.
     
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