Black Spirituality Religion : LUCIFER, THE BRINGER OF LIGHT...

Discussion in 'Black Spirituality / Religion - General Discussion' started by Aqil, Dec 31, 2005.

  1. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The word "Lucifer" in Isaiah 14:12 presents a minor problem to mainstream Christianity. It becomes a much larger problem to Biblical literalists, and this word becomes a huge obstacle for the claims of Mormonism. John J. Robinson, in A Pilgrim's Path, explains:

    “Lucifer makes his appearance in the 14th chapter of the Old Testament book of Isaiah, at the 12th verse, and nowhere else: ‘How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!’”

    The first problem is that “Lucifer” is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who fell to become the ruler of hell? The answer was a surprise. In the original Hebrew text, the 14th chapter of Isaiah is not about a “fallen angel,” but about a fallen Babylonian king, who, during his lifetime, had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a “fallen angel” – a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text – to whom they gave the name “Lucifer.”

    Why “Lucifer?” In Roman astronomy, “Lucifer” was the name given to the morning star, which was the planet Venus. The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, “bringer,” or “bearer of light.” In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as “Day star, son of the Dawn.” The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court. The scholars authorized by King James to translate the Bible into English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated largely by St. Jerome in the 4th century AD. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer," and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell. Theologians, writers, and poets interwove the myth with the doctrine of the Fall, and in Christian tradition, Lucifer is now the same as Satan, the Devil, and, ironically, the Prince of Darkness.

    So "Lucifer" is nothing more than an ancient Latin name for Venus, the morning star, the bringer of light. That can be confusing for Christians who identify Christ himself as the morning star, a term used as a central theme in many Christian sermons. Jesus refers to himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16:

    "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

    And so there are those who do not read beyond the King James Version of the Bible; who say 'Lucifer is Satan: so says the Word of God.'

    Henry Neufeld, a Biblical scholar who comments on controversial Biblical issues, went on to say: "This passage is often related to Satan, and a similar thought is expressed in Luke 10:18 by Jesus, that was not its first meaning. Its primary meaning is given in Isaiah 14:4, which says that when Israel is restored they will ‘take up this taunt against the king of Babylon.’ Verse 12 is a part of this taunt song. This passage refers first to the fall of that earthly king...”

    How does the confusion in translating this verse arise? In Hebrew this passage reads: heleyl, ben shachar, which can be literally translated "shining one, son of dawn." This phrase means – again literally – the planet Venus when it appears as a morning star. In the Septuagint – a 3rd century BC translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek – it is translated as "phosphorus," which also means Venus as a morning star.

    How did the translation "Lucifer" arise? This word comes from Jerome's Latin Vulgate. In Latin at the time, "Lucifer" actually meant Venus as a morning star. Isaiah is using this metaphor for a bright light, though not the greatest light to illustrate the apparent power of the Babylonian king which then faded." Therefore, Lucifer wasn't equated with Satan until after Jerome. Later Christians (and Mormons) were in equating "Lucifer" with "Satan."

    So why is this a problem to Christians? Christians now generally believe that Satan (or the Devil or Lucifer who they equate with Satan) is a being who has always existed (or who was created at or near the beginning). Therefore, they also think that the prophets of the Old Testament believed in this creature. The Isaiah scripture is used as proof (and has been used as such for hundreds of years now). As author Elaine Pagels explains though, the concept of Satan has evolved over the years, and the early Bible writers didn't believe in or teach such a doctrine.

    The irony for those who believe that "Lucifer" refers to Satan is that the same title (“morning star” or “light-bearer”) is used to refer to Jesus, in 2 Peter 1:19, where the Greek text has exactly the same term: “phosphorus,” “light-bearer.” This is also the term used for Jesus in Revelation 22:16.
     
  2. Dual Karnayn

    Dual Karnayn Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Aqil

    Salaams

    Do you believe Lucifer was one of the chief Jinn?

    Maybe among the fallen-ones who first taught forbidden knowledge such as weaponry and sorcery to mankind and was punished for it.
     
  3. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    "Lucifer" is nothing more than an ancient Latin name for the planet Venus as the morning star, or "bringer of light." The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, meaning “bringer” of light.”
     
  4. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Your first post is a lie and an evasion of what is written. You are making up excuses to deny Jesus’ revelation as to his role in the Kingdom of GOD.

    Rv:22:16: I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    Isa:14:12: How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    English Bible:
    How are you fallen from heaven, O bright star, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, you who ruled the nations!

    The Hebrew Scriptures simply don’t translate the meaning of Lucifer as a name. They translate the name as the phrase it is “Bright and Morning Star”, “Morning Star” etc… Look the name Lucifer up in the dictionary to see all of the phrases it actually means. This same procedure is seen in the name “Immanuel” but yet having a meaning of “GOD is with us”.
    This is the poetic reference in the Old Testament that allows one to make an exact connect between Sons of GOD and Morning Star.

    Job:38:7: When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    Hebrew poetry makes idealistic connections between two concepts through repeating the idea as a different phrase. Morning Stars and Sons of GOD is the same concept.
    To further this idea we need to examine Sons of GOD in Geneses.

    Gen:6:4: There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

    English Bible:
    There were Nefilim in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men of old, men of renown.

    The word Nefilim means The Fallen. It was intentionally removed from the KJV verse because that verse makes a direct connection between Entities referred to as Sons of GOD and Fallen Servants of Heaven. It reveals the Nature of Jesus to soon and to easily, thus they confounded the passage by replacing “Nefilim” with “Giants”.

    Isa 14:12 is a poetic loop back to the original language of Gen 6:4 so is Rv 22:16. As I have shown Jesus true birth record as being this.

    Isa:8:4: For before the child shall have knowledge to cry, My father, and my mother, the riches of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria shall be taken away before the king of Assyria.

    We now see that the true Jesus was indeed Nebuchadnezzar in whom was Lucifer manifested in the flesh by GOD to destroy Judah physically and culturally/religiously for breaking the Covenant. This explains why Servant of Jesus despise the Old Testament and reject the bulk of the doctrine. They are under the spell of Lucifer which when you fall victim to it, you will deny the GOD of the Old Testament to HIS Face. One example of this beginning denial of GOD……

    Mt:3:17: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Mt:17:5: While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

    Those Words are from the GOD of the Old Testament, they are a Theology, Teaching and Doctrine in which is the only new information from GOD in the New Testament. Servants of Jesus curse GOD to HIS Face by saying Jesus is the Messiah, Jesus is GOD or Jesus is Son of Man. To view Jesus beyond what GOD informs you of is the act of denying GOD. And that is the whole purpose of Jesus, to see if you will deny GOD to HIS Face for something that has been taught to you by men, flesh, not GOD.
     
  5. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Lucifer and Satan are two different Entities and is a reference to two different titles. Lucifer is the First Created/Born of GOD and with the Essence of GOD. Satan would be any Son of GOD after Lucifer. Lucifer is ruler over Satan. All in all GOD created Seven or Eight of these Entities referred to as Sons of GOD. There purpose is to test or prove humans. GOD uses them to eventually purify the earth of evil people who confuse darkness for light, falsehood for truth. The Sons of GOD influence weak-minded humans to create false religious doctrines that sway people away from GOD and test our loyalty to the Word of GOD through antitheses doctrine. Out of all of this Lucifer was not given the authority to lie in the Word of GOD. You will not find Lucifer writing in a format that expresses GOD Himself Speaking the Words. And that is why you will not see GOD Himself Speaking in the New Testament.

    Lucifer is not evil. If GOD creates a Servant of Heaven and Commands that Servant to Fall to the earth and prove humans and divide between them that are loyal to GOD and those that are not, that Command does not make that Servant of Heaven Evil. Evil comes into play when humans start denying GOD and failing the test of Lucifer. GOD presents Lucifer as HE does in the Old Testament because it is the only way to communicate to us his Nature, Purpose or Fulfillment.
    Jesus, in his own words; prophases to be the First Created thus making him Prince over the other Sons of GOD and Prince over Hell.

    Rv:1:18: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

    The writers of the New Testament understood exactly what they were doing. And they entered into a Covenant with Lucifer in order to do what they did. They where commanded by Lucifer to create a Book that would make him like GOD. In doing so they would reign in the earth for 2300 years. This is a reference to the Covenant.

    Isa:28:15: Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

    They believe because they have entered into a Covenant with Lucifer that when GOD Commands Lucifer to destroy that Lucifer will not destroy his own Servants and deny the Command of GOD. But they are dead wrong; Lucifer is one of the most loyal Servants of GOD and would never ever deny a Command of his Father, it is not possible.
     
  6. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    All of this is a lie, MP. Do you think anybody here actually believes your nonsensical diatribes and frivolous personal opinions? Your commentaries on the mistranslated Biblical verses that you proffer - written by the prophets Moses and Isaiah in the OT, and John in the NT - are atrocious. Most of your caviling discourses on Lucifer are, in addition to being erroneous, replete with lies and supercilious cacophony, which is why you're out there all by yourself. Here is more detailed, factual information (the basis of all logical thought) re: Lucifer:

    Lucifer is a Latin word made up of two words, "lux" (light; genitive lucis) and "ferre" (to bear, to bring), meaning "light-bearer." Lucifer appears in Greek mythology as heosphoros, the "Dawn-bringer"; it is used by poets to represent the morning star at moments when Venus would introduce distracting imagery of the goddess. "Lucifer" is Jerome's direct translation in his Vulgate (4th century) of the Septuagint's Greek translation, as heosphoros, "morning star" or "Day Star," literally "bringer of the Dawn," of a phrase in from Isaiah 14:12.

    From the viewpoint of the Christian tradition, Lucifer is seen as having been second in command to God himself; he was the highest archangel in heaven, but he was motivated by pride and greed to rebel against God and was cast out of heaven, followed by a third of the host of heaven. He became the Devil, and his fellow angelic rebels were known as demons. Modern astrologers identify the planet Venus as having been known by the name Lucifer in Roman astrology before being given its current name.

    Lucifer is used by Jerome in the Vulgate to translate into Latin Isaiah 14:12-14, where the Hebrew text refers to heilel ben-shachar (הילל בן שחר in Hebrew). Heilel signifies the planet Venus, and ben-shachar means, "the brilliant one, son of the morning," to whose mythical fate that of the King of Babylon is compared in the prophetic vision. The Jewish Encyclopedia reports that "it is obvious that the prophet in attributing to the Babylonian king boastful pride, followed by a fall, borrowed the idea from a popular legend connected with the morning star." Isaiah 14 starts out discussing the King of Babylon, and the reference "morning star, son of the dawn" originally applied specifically to that king's pride:

    14:4 "And you shall bear this parable against the king of Babylon, and you shall say, 'How has the dominator ceased, has ceased the haughty one!'"

    14:10 "All of them shall speak up and say to you, 'Have you too become weak like us? Have you become like us?'"

    14:11 "Your pride has been lowered into Gehinnom, the stirring of your psalteries. Maggots are spread under you, and worms cover you."

    14:12 "How have you fallen from heaven, Lucifer, the morning star? You have been cut down to earth, You who cast lots on nations."

    The later Jewish tradition, with which the early church fathers were familiar, elaborates on the fall of the angels under the leadership of Samhazai and Azael. Another legend in the midrash represents the repentant Samhazai, suspended star-like between heaven and earth instead of being hurled down to Sheol. The Helel-Lucifer myth was transferred to Satan in the 1st century BC, where the adversary gives Adam an account of his early career, and the Slavonic Book of Enoch (xxix. 4, xxxi. 4), where Satan-Sataniel (Samael?) is also described as a former archangel. Because he contrived "to make his throne higher than the clouds over the Earth and resemble 'My power on high," Satan-Sataniel was hurled down, with his hosts of angels, and since then he has been flying in the air continually above the abyss.

    St. Jerome, with the Septuagint close at hand and a general familiarity with the pagan poetic traditions, translated Helel as Lucifer. Much of Christian tradition also draws on interpretations of Revelation 12:9 ("He was thrown down, that ancient serpent"; see also 12:4 and 12:7) in equating the ancient serpent with the serpent in the Garden of Eden and the fallen star, Lucifer, with Satan. Accordingly, Tertullian, Origen and others identify Lucifer with Satan.

    In the fully-developed Christian interpretation, Jerome's Vulgate translation of Isaiah 14:12 has made Lucifer the name of the principal fallen angel, who must lament the loss of his original glory as the morning star. This image at last defines the character of Satan; where the Church Fathers had maintained that Lucifer was not the proper name of the Devil, and that it referred rather to the state from which he had fallen; St. Jerome transformed it into Satan's proper name.

    It is noteworthy that the Old Testament itself does not at any point actually mention the rebellion and fall of Satan directly. This non-Scriptural belief assembled from interpretations of different passages, would fall under the heading Christian mythology, except that the very idea of a Christian mythology is widely attacked as offensive. In the Vulgate, the word Lucifer is used elsewhere: it describes the Morning Star (the planet Venus), the "light of the morning" (Job 11:17); the "signs of the zodiac" (Job 38:32) and "the aurora" (Psalm 109:3). In the New Testament, "Jesus Christ" (in II Peter 1:19) is associated with the "morning star" (phosphoros).

    Not all references in the New Testament to the morning star refer to phosphoros, however; in Revelation:

    Rev 2:28 "And I will give him the morning star." (aster proinos).

    Rev 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." (aster orthrinos)
     
  7. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    The beautiful planet Venus is the light-bringer, the first radiant beam that does away with the darkness of night when rising before the Sun at dawn. It is a symbol of the development of the divine light in man, for the first awakening of self-consciousness, for independent thinking and the real application of free will. It means the bringing of the light of compassionate understanding to the human mind. In this broader view the connection of the morning star with Jesus makes good sense, because compassion is the essence of Jesus' teaching. This teaching shows the greatest consensus throughout the New Testament: it is mentioned in Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Romans, Galatians, 1 Thessalonians, Hebrews, 1 John, James, and 1 Peter. The best known reference is in Matthew (22:37-40):

    "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
     
  8. Omowale Jabali

    Omowale Jabali The Cosmic Journeyman PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Excellent post brother Aqil!

    I don't claim to be all-knowing so I must be clear to note that it is my OPINION that this knowledge concerning the planet "Venus" played a major role in the Mayan's development of the so-called "Venus calendar" which predicted this "hell" to occur in reference to a prediction concerning the "end of the world" on Dec 21 in the year 2011 or 2012 AD. I am not quite sure of the actual year but i know it is sometime around there.

    Considering a previous post that a sister made the other day (I forgot her name) in reference to the present calendar being about 7 years off, well, it seems like we entered that point this month when Mercury, which was in retrograde motion, went direct. I'm not quite sure of the position of Venus at the time of this years past Winter solstice.
     
  9. Music Producer

    Music Producer Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Aqil

    Jesus is Lucifer because he says he is.

    Rv:22:16: I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    The Servants of Jesus that wrote the New Testament understood exactly everything that you just explained and they understood the meaning of Bright and Morning Star. It doesn’t make any difference where the name or meaning comes from, that’s not what you were asked. GOD uses specific wording to describe a Fallen Servant of Heaven.

    What you were asked is why is Jesus depicted describing himself with attributes reserved for a Fallen Servant of Heaven by GOD? All you did was evade the core question by giving a history lesson on the name Lucifer. What makes you think you are more inelegant than the people that actually wrote the book?

    What has an impact on what you minister is the fact that Jesus describes himself as Lucifer and you teach people to worship and praise Jesus, that’s what is important to this conversation.
    So what is this?

    Gen:6:2: That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

    Gen:6:4: There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

    English Bible:
    There were Nefilim in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men of old, men of renown.

    That is because the Old Testament don’t say “Satan” it says “Sons of GOD”, the reason you reject this Scripture is because it identifies the nature of Sons of GOD. Which is the only information GOD Himself gives about Jesus. When GOD calls Jesus HIS Son, it is not permission to praise and worship him, it is a warning but you would never know that if you never studied the Old Testament or if you reject the Old Testament.

    It is canny how you attribute the Bible to Christian mythology when it comes to explaining the evil of it, but yet when you go to uplift Jesus and teach people to worship him you no longer present it as mythology. What are you doing to black people when you only reveal a half-truth?

    The original or first Servants of Jesus understood exactly what they were doing and who they were uplifting because they understood the Will of GOD. And it became GOD will to destroy Judah physically and religiously. GOD sent Jesus to do just that and that is exactly what he does today.
     
  10. Aqil

    Aqil Well-Known Member MEMBER

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    Thank you, my brother.

    Only The Omniscient knows all...:) I too have read of the Venus Calendar developed by the Mayans, and I have also read that the Mayan Calendar is something profoundly different than just a system to mark off the passage of time. The Mayan Calendar is above all a prophetic calendar that may help us understand the past and foresee the future. It is a calendar of the Ages that describes how the progression of Heavens and Underworlds condition the human consciousness, and thus the frames for our thoughts and actions within a given Age. The Mayan Calendar is not predicting the end of the world at the time of the Winter Solstice (Dec. 21) in the year 2012, but the start of a new era; The Golden Age...

    Venus entered Aquarius on Dec. 15th.
     
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